Rolling road facitities in NW
Discussion
www.carplanetracing.com
These guys are based in warrington and have a rolling road.They used to be part of an outfit called RC developments and looked after a couple of mitsubishi evos i owned.Definately recommend them when it comes to japanese stuff,not sure how clued up they are with westfields/zetecs etc.(i assume its your westfield)
If you find anywhere let us know. I have a bike engined westfield i wouldn't mind getting on the rollers sometime this year.
Cheers
These guys are based in warrington and have a rolling road.They used to be part of an outfit called RC developments and looked after a couple of mitsubishi evos i owned.Definately recommend them when it comes to japanese stuff,not sure how clued up they are with westfields/zetecs etc.(i assume its your westfield)
If you find anywhere let us know. I have a bike engined westfield i wouldn't mind getting on the rollers sometime this year.
Cheers
Edited by Nedz on Sunday 30th January 09:57
WGT in Middlewich.
http://www.wgtautodevelopments.co.uk/
Mikeancis in Congleton.
http://jc-webs.co.uk/mikeanics/
http://www.wgtautodevelopments.co.uk/
Mikeancis in Congleton.
http://jc-webs.co.uk/mikeanics/
Thats a good tip for Awesome - I need a RR check at some point. Looks like the road will take a 4th gear run - mine came with charts for third, which seems an odd gear to use, and I have seen more done in third since. Must be the max roller speed on some rigs. Anyway I want to fiddle with the fuelling, so dead handy.
There is a lot of myth and mystery over Rolling roads.
I took the time to learn more about them which helps to spot the rogue readings on people's readouts.
However, about the gear to use they should always try and use the gear that is as close to a 1:1 ratio, as you state on most cars this tends to be 4th gear, but not always.
There are many user settings that can be manipulated to give higher or lower output figures and a common trick is to wire a switch in with the Ambient Air temp sensor so it can be a switched value to give a false before and after reading.
It's always advisable to ask to see the settings, especially as you're the one paying for the run.
Obvious ones are Ambient Air Temp, Intake Air Temp, Barometric Pressure and Relative Humidity.
The above are used to calculate the output from a reference point, so if the Ambient Air Temp is higher than it should be the system will formulate more horsepower into the reading to compensate, same as if the reading was lower it will remove power from the reading.
So someone with a 3-way switched sensor can easily under read.. tweak your car, read normal, tweak some more and then over read.. then they hold their hand out for money ;-)
Disclaimer: Not all RR's use any means of fraud but it DOES happen and by some well known names in the past ;-)
A list of what the readings along the bottom of most common print out's mean:
BH = Barometric Pressure (this can be checked easily for your location and time)
RH = Relative Humidity (as above)
AT = Ambient Air Temp (a simple thermometer or even your car's dash display)
IT = Intake Air Temp (temp within the induction system - OBD tool can verify this reading)
RR = Ramp Rate
TN = Inertia Settings (this is set to match your dif ratio)
CF = Correction Factor (6 = 6 cyl engine, 8 = 8 cyl engine, etc)
CK = Check Reference
RR is generally set to a common setting (010 - 015) however different setup's might require different readings, but not if done on the same RR installation.
Hope this helps :-)
As a case point, I have seen a Print out showing their 460hp car putting out over 500hp, then when looking at the Run settings finding the Ambient Air Temp to be 60 degrees C'. A good 42+ degrees over, thus fooling the computer to fudge the figures up higher. (this was done at a well known place and I have a photo of the read out) ;-) take care and be vigilant!
I took the time to learn more about them which helps to spot the rogue readings on people's readouts.
However, about the gear to use they should always try and use the gear that is as close to a 1:1 ratio, as you state on most cars this tends to be 4th gear, but not always.
There are many user settings that can be manipulated to give higher or lower output figures and a common trick is to wire a switch in with the Ambient Air temp sensor so it can be a switched value to give a false before and after reading.
It's always advisable to ask to see the settings, especially as you're the one paying for the run.
Obvious ones are Ambient Air Temp, Intake Air Temp, Barometric Pressure and Relative Humidity.
The above are used to calculate the output from a reference point, so if the Ambient Air Temp is higher than it should be the system will formulate more horsepower into the reading to compensate, same as if the reading was lower it will remove power from the reading.
So someone with a 3-way switched sensor can easily under read.. tweak your car, read normal, tweak some more and then over read.. then they hold their hand out for money ;-)
Disclaimer: Not all RR's use any means of fraud but it DOES happen and by some well known names in the past ;-)
A list of what the readings along the bottom of most common print out's mean:
BH = Barometric Pressure (this can be checked easily for your location and time)
RH = Relative Humidity (as above)
AT = Ambient Air Temp (a simple thermometer or even your car's dash display)
IT = Intake Air Temp (temp within the induction system - OBD tool can verify this reading)
RR = Ramp Rate
TN = Inertia Settings (this is set to match your dif ratio)
CF = Correction Factor (6 = 6 cyl engine, 8 = 8 cyl engine, etc)
CK = Check Reference
RR is generally set to a common setting (010 - 015) however different setup's might require different readings, but not if done on the same RR installation.
Hope this helps :-)
As a case point, I have seen a Print out showing their 460hp car putting out over 500hp, then when looking at the Run settings finding the Ambient Air Temp to be 60 degrees C'. A good 42+ degrees over, thus fooling the computer to fudge the figures up higher. (this was done at a well known place and I have a photo of the read out) ;-) take care and be vigilant!
Edited by GTDB7 on Wednesday 9th February 23:12
GTDB7 said:
There is a lot of myth and mystery over Rolling roads.
I took the time to learn more about them which helps to spot the rogue readings on people's readouts.
However, about the gear to use they should always try and use the gear that is as close to a 1:1 ratio, as you state on most cars this tends to be 4th gear, but not always.
There are many user settings that can be manipulated to give higher or lower output figures and a common trick is to wire a switch in with the Ambient Air temp sensor so it can be a switched value to give a false before and after reading.
It's always advisable to ask to see the settings, especially as you're the one paying for the run.
Obvious ones are Ambient Air Temp, Intake Air Temp, Barometric Pressure and Relative Humidity.
The above are used to calculate the output from a reference point, so if the Ambient Air Temp is higher than it should be the system will formulate more horsepower into the reading to compensate, same as if the reading was lower it will remove power from the reading.
So someone with a 3-way switched sensor can easily under read.. tweak your car, read normal, tweak some more and then over read.. then they hold their hand out for money ;-)
Disclaimer: Not all RR's use any means of fraud but it DOES happen and by some well known names in the past ;-)
A list of what the readings along the bottom of most common print out's mean:
BH = Barometric Pressure (this can be checked easily for your location and time)
RH = Relative Humidity (as above)
AT = Ambient Air Temp (a simple thermometer or even your car's dash display)
IT = Intake Air Temp (temp within the induction system - OBD tool can verify this reading)
RR = Ramp Rate
TN = Inertia Settings
CF = Correction Factor (6 = 6 cyl engine, 8 = 8 cyl engine, etc)
CK = Check Reference
RR and TN are generally set to a common setting however different setup's might require different readings, but not if done on the same RR installation.
Hope this helps :-)
As a case point, I have seen a Print out showing their 460hp car putting out over 500hp, then when looking at the Run settings finding the Ambient Air Temp to be 60 degrees C'. A good 42+ degrees over, thus fooling the computer to fudge the figures up higher. (this was done at a well known place and I have a photo of the read out) ;-) take care and be vigilant!
thats really useful for a RR 'virgin' and on reflection quite logicalI took the time to learn more about them which helps to spot the rogue readings on people's readouts.
However, about the gear to use they should always try and use the gear that is as close to a 1:1 ratio, as you state on most cars this tends to be 4th gear, but not always.
There are many user settings that can be manipulated to give higher or lower output figures and a common trick is to wire a switch in with the Ambient Air temp sensor so it can be a switched value to give a false before and after reading.
It's always advisable to ask to see the settings, especially as you're the one paying for the run.
Obvious ones are Ambient Air Temp, Intake Air Temp, Barometric Pressure and Relative Humidity.
The above are used to calculate the output from a reference point, so if the Ambient Air Temp is higher than it should be the system will formulate more horsepower into the reading to compensate, same as if the reading was lower it will remove power from the reading.
So someone with a 3-way switched sensor can easily under read.. tweak your car, read normal, tweak some more and then over read.. then they hold their hand out for money ;-)
Disclaimer: Not all RR's use any means of fraud but it DOES happen and by some well known names in the past ;-)
A list of what the readings along the bottom of most common print out's mean:
BH = Barometric Pressure (this can be checked easily for your location and time)
RH = Relative Humidity (as above)
AT = Ambient Air Temp (a simple thermometer or even your car's dash display)
IT = Intake Air Temp (temp within the induction system - OBD tool can verify this reading)
RR = Ramp Rate
TN = Inertia Settings
CF = Correction Factor (6 = 6 cyl engine, 8 = 8 cyl engine, etc)
CK = Check Reference
RR and TN are generally set to a common setting however different setup's might require different readings, but not if done on the same RR installation.
Hope this helps :-)
As a case point, I have seen a Print out showing their 460hp car putting out over 500hp, then when looking at the Run settings finding the Ambient Air Temp to be 60 degrees C'. A good 42+ degrees over, thus fooling the computer to fudge the figures up higher. (this was done at a well known place and I have a photo of the read out) ;-) take care and be vigilant!
Scooby_snax said:
Can anyone recommend a rolling road facility in the NW say 50 mile radius of Warrington
Need to have a 2ltr Zetec with throttle bodies mapped
Cheers
Do you mean you have a mapper already and he or you need a road to do it on.Need to have a 2ltr Zetec with throttle bodies mapped
Cheers
Or do you mean you want somebody to map the car, who also has a rr facility?
Two different propositions.
DynoDemon - Neston\Wirral
wouldnt waste time with dyno demon, cant map for toffee and charge a fortune. there idea of mapping is running car up to limiter if it looks lean the richen it up or vice versa, they dont set it at load points or anything to map it accurately.
if want a decent rolling road that wont pull pants down and do a decent job then a.b. garage, done alot of the work for chester sports cars with all their zetecs over the years, escort lads etc etc me and my mates have used them for years and always been very happy with the results(dont mean figures more way car drives) service and price
wouldnt waste time with dyno demon, cant map for toffee and charge a fortune. there idea of mapping is running car up to limiter if it looks lean the richen it up or vice versa, they dont set it at load points or anything to map it accurately.
if want a decent rolling road that wont pull pants down and do a decent job then a.b. garage, done alot of the work for chester sports cars with all their zetecs over the years, escort lads etc etc me and my mates have used them for years and always been very happy with the results(dont mean figures more way car drives) service and price
To GTBD7 - good post - we are on the same page. It is hard to eliminate the general fiddle factors to get anywhere near a useful reading - though the RR is a good way to log the car through a range of accel/decel scenarios without getting a speeding ticket - and that way be able to analyse it's performance to see if it is optimised.
Quoting flywheel bhp figures is for schoolboys IMHO - and I have a 600+ bhp chart for mine which is nonsense - I really doubt it can be better than 550 based on boost and intercooler performance. As you point out the rear wheel HP is also often fiddled by a correction for conditions (SAE corrections) - so if the ambient air temperature sensor is put somewhere warm - the apparent power will go up.
When it comes to 500 to 600 bhp, you can forget the power on the normal road IMHO (certainly over the winter). Performance comes from putting it down on the road, I did 500 miles last weekend, and there was a lot of really torrential rain. In those conditions there was nowhere I could even use half the power - and road car TC is pathetic in my experience - nothing like race TC should be. Though I am after info to tune mine up so it does something ...
So, want to flash a RR chart, I will show you my 608bhp - but it is nonsense. The guy who got the car tuned paid a fair few quid for a 40bhp increase with before and after dyno runs - and he got 'done' IMHO.
As regards going back to the same to tune your car, then be aware that air temperature, engine temperature, and tyre pressures have a big influence.
Steve
Quoting flywheel bhp figures is for schoolboys IMHO - and I have a 600+ bhp chart for mine which is nonsense - I really doubt it can be better than 550 based on boost and intercooler performance. As you point out the rear wheel HP is also often fiddled by a correction for conditions (SAE corrections) - so if the ambient air temperature sensor is put somewhere warm - the apparent power will go up.
When it comes to 500 to 600 bhp, you can forget the power on the normal road IMHO (certainly over the winter). Performance comes from putting it down on the road, I did 500 miles last weekend, and there was a lot of really torrential rain. In those conditions there was nowhere I could even use half the power - and road car TC is pathetic in my experience - nothing like race TC should be. Though I am after info to tune mine up so it does something ...
So, want to flash a RR chart, I will show you my 608bhp - but it is nonsense. The guy who got the car tuned paid a fair few quid for a 40bhp increase with before and after dyno runs - and he got 'done' IMHO.
As regards going back to the same to tune your car, then be aware that air temperature, engine temperature, and tyre pressures have a big influence.
Steve
Done a search so thought i`d post the links
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/ Irlam
http://www.f1automotive.com/ Bolton
http://www.re-performancecentre.co.uk/ Bury
http://www.rstuning.co.uk/ Leeds
This Dyno bolts direct to the hubs which i believe is the most accurate
http://www.aet-turbos.co.uk/ wakefield
http://www.prosport.ltd.uk/ Stockport
http://www.ricwood.com/ Stockport
Anyone used the 2 in Stockport?
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/ Irlam
http://www.f1automotive.com/ Bolton
http://www.re-performancecentre.co.uk/ Bury
http://www.rstuning.co.uk/ Leeds
This Dyno bolts direct to the hubs which i believe is the most accurate
http://www.aet-turbos.co.uk/ wakefield
http://www.prosport.ltd.uk/ Stockport
http://www.ricwood.com/ Stockport
Anyone used the 2 in Stockport?
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