Rolling Road North Lancashire?
Discussion
I've had my 98 Chimaera 400 for 4years now. It's done 36k miles and has been regularly serviced at the factory.
It may just be my my own perception, but I'm quite sure it's not quite as sharp as it used to be. I'd appreciate any recommendations of where to take it locally for a full medical.
It may just be my my own perception, but I'm quite sure it's not quite as sharp as it used to be. I'd appreciate any recommendations of where to take it locally for a full medical.
sparkythecat said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
oe_cosgrove said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
What a load of rubbish. You quite obviously have no idea what your talking about.
vixpy1 said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
What a load of rubbish. You quite obviously have no idea what your talking about.
As I said, flames from Rolling Road owners
oe_cosgrove said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
What a load of rubbish. You quite obviously have no idea what your talking about.
As I said, flames from Rolling Road owners
Well, i did'nt want to disapoint
I do agree with your 'calculated' flywheel point, its a load of bollox and rolling roads can only ever give an 'estimation' of flywheel figs which will never be as accurate as an engine dyno.
vixpy1 said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
What a load of rubbish. You quite obviously have no idea what your talking about.
Just what I was thinking .. do you really think I'd have just spent 32000 pounds on a rolling road if I could do it out on the open road? get real!
trackcar said:
That's only about 13 miles away, I'll check them out.
I asked about a rolling road , because I understood it to be the best diagnostic tool.
Have I been mis-led?
Yes indeed you have, as have the majority I regret to say. I will get flamed I'm afraid from the less knowledgable and rolling road owners but they are not in the slightest bit accurate as flywheel power is CALCULATED from wheel reading which can vary from variables such as tyre pressure, tyre temperature, tyre slippage etc etc. No rolling road can recreate road conditions (hence track time tests + setting up in racing), and can be very hard on engines / drivetrains. They are designed to measure Torque not BHP out of interest, again not accurately enough for genuine back to back tests. Try reducing or increasing tyre pressures by 10 psi between runs to see what I mean. They are not recognised by the FIA. Hub type dynos are more accurate (bolt to driven wheel hubs) but not good enough to give give accurate readings to +or- the BHP figures most claim.
The only accurate way to measure power output is using a Clayton Brake Engine Dyno, where the engine is removed from the car and mounted on a rig. The best Tuners set cars up on the road. Period.
What a load of rubbish. You quite obviously have no idea what your talking about.
Just what I was thinking .. do you really think I'd have just spent 32000 pounds on a rolling road if I could do it out on the open road? get real!
Another Rolling Road owner. What a surprise
I am more 'real' than you can imagine. Yes you really should set up on the road / track. Or invest in a Dyno Pack and still fine tune on the road / track and forget quoting power figures until properly tested on a Dyno Rig
I wouldn't let my post worry you, have been trying to give real advice about rolling roads and other rip-offs for years yet the Interweb Forums are still full of suckers argueing about non-existant 1 or 2 BHP differences on Rolling Roads 
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Tuesday 4th April 20:32
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Tuesday 4th April 20:39
shadowfax said:Yes let us know. I took the Lotus to Pro-tec performance in preston. Seem to have done a good job
Well.....
I'm off to Tunit in Chorley next week.
I read about them in tvrcc mag a while back and they seem well competent
Will let you know what they say
But you can't stand and watch them do it 
www.pro-tecmotorsport.com/
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=259814&f=9&h=0
There it is.
Two things I'd do next time: First, Tell Steve to forget "hitting the red line and pulling straight off the throttle", cos the red line's well beyond the 5250rpmmax anyway, and so there's no point going there. Second, Make sure you sit in the car with the Pedal man, and check all the lights ie Hand Brake warning etc
Just so you can be sure
There it is.
Two things I'd do next time: First, Tell Steve to forget "hitting the red line and pulling straight off the throttle", cos the red line's well beyond the 5250rpmmax anyway, and so there's no point going there. Second, Make sure you sit in the car with the Pedal man, and check all the lights ie Hand Brake warning etc
Just so you can be sure
Quote: By the way Jim, my Griff only made 233 bhp on Mech repairs dyno, and was in perfect health, a few days before it showed 339 on another dyno and had a missfire, which shows the amount of variation between dynos can be consderable so I'd say your 244 is right on the button Unquote:
Copied from one of the replies. And it appears the huge implication, as always, ignored yet again. I give up.
Copied from one of the replies. And it appears the huge implication, as always, ignored yet again. I give up.
that's because you appear to be a complete muppet! my dyno produces repeatable results .. to less than 1% variation consistently .. for an electro/mechanical piece of equipment that's pretty damn good and certainly more accurate than you really need. If you're looking for 1bhp you're probably asking for too much resolution, but you'd never pick up say 15bhp on a 240bhp tvr out on the road but the rollers are more than capable of picking up increases far less than that .. you really do seem to be totally confused over how rolling roads are used. No wonder no-one is taking much notice of you, other than to pick holes in your fundamentally flawed argument.
Stick around, learn which dynos are repeatable and you'll soon learn that (whilst their operation can be open to abuse) there are reputable dynos out there producing believeable figures. For instance mine has just dynoed a 5.3 chimaera and it made to within a whisker of what the same engine made on V8 development's engine dyno.
Stick around, learn which dynos are repeatable and you'll soon learn that (whilst their operation can be open to abuse) there are reputable dynos out there producing believeable figures. For instance mine has just dynoed a 5.3 chimaera and it made to within a whisker of what the same engine made on V8 development's engine dyno.
trackcar said:
that's because you appear to be a complete muppet! my dyno produces repeatable results .. to less than 1% variation consistently .. for an electro/mechanical piece of equipment that's pretty damn good and certainly more accurate than you really need. If you're looking for 1bhp you're probably asking for too much resolution, but you'd never pick up say 15bhp on a 240bhp tvr out on the road but the rollers are more than capable of picking up increases far less than that .. you really do seem to be totally confused over how rolling roads are used. No wonder no-one is taking much notice of you, other than to pick holes in your fundamentally flawed argument.
Stick around, learn which dynos are repeatable and you'll soon learn that (whilst their operation can be open to abuse) there are reputable dynos out there producing believeable figures. For instance mine has just dynoed a 5.3 chimaera and it made to within a whisker of what the same engine made on V8 development's engine dyno.
Thanks for the kind comment
It might be very interesting for 'someone' to have a known power output (FIA certified, Engine Dyno measured, independantly verified) car run on a few of the more 'vocal' rolling road owners rollers and publish the results? I am fully aware how rolling roads are used. Which is why I try to save people their hard earned money.
Nope, you're maybe aware of how some rolling roads flatter hp to please customers .. not all rolling roads are used that way .. don't tar every operator with the same brush! Whilst absolute figures are argued all day long, some of us actually do try to get as accurate a representation of the car as possible .. I'm anal about my corrections and test procedure, you can't hope to give meaningful results unless you are. Other people are too .. my rollers, surrey rolling road (vixpy1) and noble motorsport all give results within 2% of each other every time and nobles use a different rollers make and do coast-down as opposed to the DD model me and SRR use .. you telling me we're all wrong? More likely we're all doing it right!
The message is simple : choose the rolling road facility carefully, and don't make sweeping generalisations!!
The message is simple : choose the rolling road facility carefully, and don't make sweeping generalisations!!
Interesting reading. Note comment from Puma Racing at bottom of page.
http://yarchive.net/car/dyno_accuracy
www.abbottracing.com/2003/texts/dyno.htm
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 12:38
www.ecutek.com/products/dyno/
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 12:40
http://yarchive.net/car/dyno_accuracy
www.abbottracing.com/2003/texts/dyno.htm
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 12:38
www.ecutek.com/products/dyno/
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 12:40
:Quote: And a word of of warning, stay off power testing on rolling roads! No fan (other than a wind tunnel fan) has the ability to cool the air through the intercooler "put your hand out of a car window at 100MPH see if you can find a fan that has the same effect?" We have been advising our customers since the mid 80's (Cosworth days) to stay off power testing on rolling roads. They do more damage than you can believe, since it's impossible to keep the inlet charge temperature at a safe level! We have seen countless damaged engines all down to reckless power testing on the rolling roads! You have been warned! :Unquote:
From Brodie Brittain Racing website, The Brodie Report.
www.bbrgti.com/brodie_report.php
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 13:00
From Brodie Brittain Racing website, The Brodie Report.
www.bbrgti.com/brodie_report.php
>> Edited by oe_cosgrove on Sunday 16th April 13:00
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