Warrington: Borough wide 20mph speed limits

[LooneyTunes]

I'd heard that they'd tried 20mph speed limits in a couple of parts of Warrington, but that the results had not lived up to expectations (particularly with respect to mean road speeds and speed reduction).

It looks, from a contract published on the council's procurement hub (https://www.the-chest.org.uk/procontract/supplier.nsf/frm_opportunity?OpenForm&contract_id=CONTRACT-NWCE-9B6DUY) that they're looking at pushing ahead with 20mph limits (not "zones") right across the borough.

Gut feeling is that it will be expensive, impossible to enforce (they're looking at "limits" not self-enforcing "zones"), and of little (if any) overall benefit.

Won't affect me directly as I don't live in Warrington, but I am curious about whether anyone living in the town has heard anything about the plans?

[CrutyRammers]

It's a Lancashire-wide thing, being pushed out by Lancs county council AFAIK.
The children. Think of them.

[LooneyTunes]

Warrington is in Cheshire not Lancashire.

[FraMac]

I don't live in Warrington either LT, but this is on their website, with supporting info http://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/200862/20mph_spe...

[CrutyRammers]

LooneyTunes said:

Warrington is in Cheshire not Lancashire.

Oh yeah!
In my defence, I'm a southener by birth, it's all just "ooop north" to me

[LooneyTunes]

FraMac said:

I don't live in Warrington either LT, but this is on their website, with supporting info http://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/200862/20mph_spe...

Interesting, but have a read of this:
http://www.warrington.gov.uk/download/downloads/id...

"6.4 However, the final survey, close to the end of the pilot period, indicated that perception had changed significantly, as people believed that additional measures such as traffic calming and/or Police enforcement would now be necessary for the speed limits to be effective.

<snip>

6.9 The Police have no objections to the Town Centre Scheme becoming permanent due to the high volume of pedestrians in this area.

6.10 Neither do they have objections to the Orford or Park Road area schemes becoming permanent, with the exception of Park Road and A50 Long Lane themselves, which the Police suggest should be set at 30 mph limits.

6.11 This view is based on the fact that these are local distributor roads and bus routes. Long Lane is also a key distributor route avoiding the town centre, especially when there are closures on the local Motorway network.

6.12 The Police report that the nature and usage of these routes does not indicate a logical 20 mph limit to road users, which leads to confusion and driver frustration, with associated incidents of aggressive overtaking and tailgating. For these reasons the Police have stated that they could not justify enforcement of a 20mph limit on these roads."

And, if you read this: http://www.warrington.gov.uk/download/downloads/id...

"6.7 Overall 50% of the end of trial speed limits remained above the key [DTF] threshold of 24mph."

So we've got a LA who wants to spend £740,000 implementing 20mph limits:
1) In a way that goes against DFT guidance on mean road speeds,
2) Where their own study shows limited impact on speeds, and
3) Where the police have already made negative comments about the limits proposed on some roads and said they "can't justify enforcement".

Is it just Cheshire that's going a little crazy on lowering speed limits at present, or is this happening all over the country?

[Isysman]

I live in Cheshire and I had a letter hand delivered to my house about this subject earlier in the year. I immediately contacted my local council to complain about it as they are slashing spending all across the country but wasting money on this and they told me "Funding has been slashed from central government, but at the same time they are instructing us to have a 20mph limit in residential areas." So it would appear to be a nation wide effort.

Edited by Isysman on Tuesday 1st October 06:37

[LooneyTunes]

Isysman said:

they are instructing us to have a 20mph limit in residential areas

AIUI, that's utter tosh they're spouting. The guidance document I saw seemed quite clear that 20mph limits shouldn't be put in place where mean road speeds are 24mph+... which was the majority in the Warrington pilot.

It's a real shame there isn't a sensible anti-BRAKE group to drive home the message that it isn't speed that kills but inappropriate speed, as it seems like round here limits are falling all over the place.

[mysterygti]

there as some people who would say that warrington isnt in cheshire any more, as it is its own unitary authority..

I've lived in warrington for 27 years and im not sure anymore. I remember being told off by the lady at the post office when i was about 18, she said i should no longer add cheshire to an address in warrington...

I now work for the council (cheshire west, chester and cheshier east) and warrington does not form part of their jurisdiction... go figure.

anyway, 20mph limits were in force in parts of warrington, but were removed very quickly when someone chanllenged the legality of the zones, seems they were introduced illegally, not sure why..

My own experience of them was they people drove slower, but it seemed that in a 20 zone that people did 30, and in a 30 zone people did 35/40. I only used one of them very occasionally (outside 2 schools on one road) but they seemed to do the job.

I do feel that if i had to use them every day that they would drive me insane.

[Sifly]

Warrington is so snarled up with traffic now a days, theres little opportunity to speed even if you wanted to! What with all the roundabouts, traffic lights, bridges, roadworks and school kids who don't know what their legs are for! It has to be one of the most frustraiting places to try and drive around that I know. Then, the minute you turn off an 'A' road your into back streets riddled with speed humps and double parked cars. On top of that theres always the speed nazi community do-gooders who stand on some hidden housing estate corner (usually on a Sunday afternoon) waiting to zap you for doing 34 in a thirty - Get a life FFS!

[GTDB7]

A lot of the traffic calming initiatives (funny use of the term), do more harm than good.


And local authorities are the worst for breaking laws with regards road signage and markings.

They just get an idea and go for it without knowing the full legal implications.

I see LOADS of signs that are unlawful, double yellow lines are the most common.

Knowing a little can save you a lot, especially if it ends up in court and you can point out that the offence you are charged with is wholly unlawful.