Recycling in Bristol
Discussion
I was quite disturbed to realise that I needed to read (and re-read and re-read) the instructions for putting rubbish out!
I quite like it and it has made me think a bit more about how much we don't recycle. My sister lives in Germany so has been more actively recycling for a number of years and it's not something I've ever given much thought to outside of newspapers and beer/wine bottles! I am now becoming much more aware at how much plastic waste (packaging etc.) we generate and that just seems to be landfill material?
I wish they would take plastic bottles as we seem to generate a lot of these although it's making me think about whether we could avoid generating so many (we buy 500ml bottles of water rather than bigger bottles so are generating MUCH more waste (and yes I know about tap water...)). I know I can take them to the plastic bank at the supermarket but we do most of our shopping in bulk at Costco or in the local co-op so would have to make an extra trip.
The waste food bin is taking some getting used to but once the habit is formed I think it'll work OK although I guess we'll have to wait till the next heatwave to see just how well it works. I imagine the reports of maggots during this heatwave were in places where either they didn't have waste food collections or people didn't make use of them?
I quite like it and it has made me think a bit more about how much we don't recycle. My sister lives in Germany so has been more actively recycling for a number of years and it's not something I've ever given much thought to outside of newspapers and beer/wine bottles! I am now becoming much more aware at how much plastic waste (packaging etc.) we generate and that just seems to be landfill material?
I wish they would take plastic bottles as we seem to generate a lot of these although it's making me think about whether we could avoid generating so many (we buy 500ml bottles of water rather than bigger bottles so are generating MUCH more waste (and yes I know about tap water...)). I know I can take them to the plastic bank at the supermarket but we do most of our shopping in bulk at Costco or in the local co-op so would have to make an extra trip.
The waste food bin is taking some getting used to but once the habit is formed I think it'll work OK although I guess we'll have to wait till the next heatwave to see just how well it works. I imagine the reports of maggots during this heatwave were in places where either they didn't have waste food collections or people didn't make use of them?
I bought a couple of those blue bags IKEA sell, we fill one with cardboard and one with plastic bottles every week - the plastic one isnt really big enough tho! All our waste food goes down the waste disposal, I cant be doing with those stupid little box things.
We do need our plastics collecting but I can understand why they dont want to do it, it'd need an arctic for every round and even then its mostly just air! We nip them up to our local Waitrose or Sainsburys.
Because of this we do just about manage, but as someone else said it does make you realise just how much plastic waste we generate (or rather that is forced upon us) and that there's no recycling facilities for.
We do need our plastics collecting but I can understand why they dont want to do it, it'd need an arctic for every round and even then its mostly just air! We nip them up to our local Waitrose or Sainsburys.
Because of this we do just about manage, but as someone else said it does make you realise just how much plastic waste we generate (or rather that is forced upon us) and that there's no recycling facilities for.
Its not so much the recycling that I have an issue with - I'm actually looking forward to diong it properly when we move to our house.
However the problem comes when 'they' decide exactly how much waste, and therefore how many bins, you get for flats.
We have eight flats, and only 6 small wheelie bins, 4 waste food bins, and 2 black recycling ones.
You can imagine that eight flats with (usually) 2 people in each generates a lot of rubbish, and as a consequence we used to fill our bins quickly.
The binmen obviously applied a bit of common sense here and took the extra black bags we put out.
But oh no, now we have to put everything in the wheelie bins, and we get an arsey sticker explaining why. They simply refuse to take the rubbish INCLUDING THE
ING BINS THAT HAVE THE ING LIDS SLIGHTLY OPEN ON - WHY!!!!!!!!!!! FWEOFUIHEOFHWOFWL@FJEL:AS GAHHHH!2!!
phew
I'm just taking to taking our rubbish to the dump on the way to work. Or just throwing on the downs*
Either way at least then it'll be picked up and disposed of.
*Joke
However the problem comes when 'they' decide exactly how much waste, and therefore how many bins, you get for flats.
We have eight flats, and only 6 small wheelie bins, 4 waste food bins, and 2 black recycling ones.
You can imagine that eight flats with (usually) 2 people in each generates a lot of rubbish, and as a consequence we used to fill our bins quickly.
The binmen obviously applied a bit of common sense here and took the extra black bags we put out.
But oh no, now we have to put everything in the wheelie bins, and we get an arsey sticker explaining why. They simply refuse to take the rubbish INCLUDING THE
ING BINS THAT HAVE THE ING LIDS SLIGHTLY OPEN ON - WHY!!!!!!!!!!! FWEOFUIHEOFHWOFWL@FJEL:AS GAHHHH!2!! phew
I'm just taking to taking our rubbish to the dump on the way to work. Or just throwing on the downs*
Either way at least then it'll be picked up and disposed of.
*Joke
Its shite.
The new scheme does work quite well for some households but not others.
I have a young family. As such, we produce more than our "fair" share of waste - enough to fill a wheelie bin and more every week. A lot of the rubbish is plastic food packaging that is completely unavoidable. BCC refuse to collect plastic for recycling, so in order to make best use of our bin we took it upon ourselves to save plastic and take it for recycling at the tip. Not best happy about doing this but what the hell.
it turns out that the tip will only accept plastic bottles an no other sort of plastic.
BCC will collect paper. As we don't subscribe to any dalies, we don't have much paper to recycle except for private correspondence, bills, bank statements etc. These we obviously shred before throwing away.
In its wisdom, BCC refuse to recycle shredded paper.
As we also produce a fair amount of food waste, when we had the kitchen re-done last year we chose (at not inconsiderable expense) to fit a waste disposal unit to deal with as much of this as possible. Now BCC provide everybody with a manky brown bin for food waste. The people I've spoken to who actually use this (and I don't think its that many) tell me its horrible; the bin stinks and is full of maggots etc within a week. Nice.
Glass and tins have always been colleted and we continue to do this (as long as its the "right sort of glass"
Cardboard never used to be recycled but now BCC will collect it. They won't, however, provide anything to put it in on collection day, so you just leave it plied up on the pavement. Nice. On the very first week of the new scheme, most of the resdidential streets looked really really messy and inevitably a lot of teh rubbish wasn't collected as the bin men couldn't be bothered to go around scooping it up from whereever it had blown off to. Good one BCC.
Garden waste you now need to buy a new wheelie bin for and pay annually for collection. Apparently this is so as not to penalise those who don't have gardens! My view is that in fact they reckon those with gardens can be stung for a bit more, despite the fact that they're probably already paying extra council tax to compensate anyway.
The thing that really
s me off, though, is BCC's little diagram that they use to justify cutting the normal bin collection to once a fortnight. It gives an "average" household's bin, split into %-ages of the various types of rubbish (by weight) and comes to the conclusion that everyone's bins will be half empty (conveniently) due to the changes in recycling.
Utter bollox! Firstly, they include in the bin content all the stuff that they already collected seperately via the black box scheme. Er, that stuff was never in the sodding bin in the first place. Secondly, they've done it by weight and not volume - so all that plastic packaging that they refuse to recycle but weights next to nothing and takes up lots of room is still in the bin, effectively filling it.
End result is that we do as much as we possibly can to recycle, even keeping all the plastic that they won't take at the tip and our bin is still full to overflowing after about a week and a half. Great - so now I'll have to regularly save bags of stinking rubbish and transport them myself to the tip. Very green. Not.
Plus, there are now 4 collections: rubbish, card, glass & tins and garden waste. So that's 4 lots of diseasel trucks crawling around the streets. Brilliant.
The new scheme does work quite well for some households but not others.
I have a young family. As such, we produce more than our "fair" share of waste - enough to fill a wheelie bin and more every week. A lot of the rubbish is plastic food packaging that is completely unavoidable. BCC refuse to collect plastic for recycling, so in order to make best use of our bin we took it upon ourselves to save plastic and take it for recycling at the tip. Not best happy about doing this but what the hell.
it turns out that the tip will only accept plastic bottles an no other sort of plastic.
BCC will collect paper. As we don't subscribe to any dalies, we don't have much paper to recycle except for private correspondence, bills, bank statements etc. These we obviously shred before throwing away.
In its wisdom, BCC refuse to recycle shredded paper.
As we also produce a fair amount of food waste, when we had the kitchen re-done last year we chose (at not inconsiderable expense) to fit a waste disposal unit to deal with as much of this as possible. Now BCC provide everybody with a manky brown bin for food waste. The people I've spoken to who actually use this (and I don't think its that many) tell me its horrible; the bin stinks and is full of maggots etc within a week. Nice.
Glass and tins have always been colleted and we continue to do this (as long as its the "right sort of glass"
Cardboard never used to be recycled but now BCC will collect it. They won't, however, provide anything to put it in on collection day, so you just leave it plied up on the pavement. Nice. On the very first week of the new scheme, most of the resdidential streets looked really really messy and inevitably a lot of teh rubbish wasn't collected as the bin men couldn't be bothered to go around scooping it up from whereever it had blown off to. Good one BCC.
Garden waste you now need to buy a new wheelie bin for and pay annually for collection. Apparently this is so as not to penalise those who don't have gardens! My view is that in fact they reckon those with gardens can be stung for a bit more, despite the fact that they're probably already paying extra council tax to compensate anyway.
The thing that really
s me off, though, is BCC's little diagram that they use to justify cutting the normal bin collection to once a fortnight. It gives an "average" household's bin, split into %-ages of the various types of rubbish (by weight) and comes to the conclusion that everyone's bins will be half empty (conveniently) due to the changes in recycling. Utter bollox! Firstly, they include in the bin content all the stuff that they already collected seperately via the black box scheme. Er, that stuff was never in the sodding bin in the first place. Secondly, they've done it by weight and not volume - so all that plastic packaging that they refuse to recycle but weights next to nothing and takes up lots of room is still in the bin, effectively filling it.
End result is that we do as much as we possibly can to recycle, even keeping all the plastic that they won't take at the tip and our bin is still full to overflowing after about a week and a half. Great - so now I'll have to regularly save bags of stinking rubbish and transport them myself to the tip. Very green. Not.
Plus, there are now 4 collections: rubbish, card, glass & tins and garden waste. So that's 4 lots of diseasel trucks crawling around the streets. Brilliant.
CNUTS is not the word I'd use.
If I knew a stronger one I would, but I'd only implode. Quite why Bristol is so highly racked in C tax I don't know - South Glos is somewhat cheaper and have half the crap that BCC give us.
Oh how we were gutted the house we wanted, that *just so happened* to sit outside in South Glos fell through
If I knew a stronger one I would, but I'd only implode. Quite why Bristol is so highly racked in C tax I don't know - South Glos is somewhat cheaper and have half the crap that BCC give us.
Oh how we were gutted the house we wanted, that *just so happened* to sit outside in South Glos fell through
pdV6 said:
In fact, reading BCC's leaflet revealed the true reason for the changes; if they can't be shown to be doing more recycling, they'll get fined by central government. I can only assume that their way of paying for this is to save money on the bin collection by halving it.
Doesn't quite work like that.
The government has issued targets to all UK authorities with regards to the amount of waste that's recycled. Those authorities that fail to hit their target get fined - a lot. However, those that exceed their targets get financial rewards through something called landfill tax credits and other financial incentives. Also, a lot of recycled waste has good re-sale value - particulalry steel and glass which the council then uses to fund the additional collections.
In theory, it's a win-win situation. Less rubbish going to landfill=less pollution. More recycling=less need for raw materails and less energy to produce new stuff and all this costing less than bunging everything in a single bin. Might be a pain but we'll quickly get used to it.
steviebee said:
pdV6 said:
In fact, reading BCC's leaflet revealed the true reason for the changes; if they can't be shown to be doing more recycling, they'll get fined by central government. I can only assume that their way of paying for this is to save money on the bin collection by halving it.
Doesn't quite work like that.
The government has issued targets to all UK authorities with regards to the amount of waste that's recycled. Those authorities that fail to hit their target get fined - a lot. However, those that exceed their targets get financial rewards through something called landfill tax credits and other financial incentives. Also, a lot of recycled waste has good re-sale value - particulalry steel and glass which the council then uses to fund the additional collections.
In theory, it's a win-win situation. Less rubbish going to landfill=less pollution. More recycling=less need for raw materails and less energy to produce new stuff and all this costing less than bunging everything in a single bin. Might be a pain but we'll quickly get used to it.
Why your interest in the Bristol system? You live in Essex?
Edited to add: Oooh, I see now... your profile links to a website of yours regarding something to do with waste?
Edited by neil_cardiff on Tuesday 22 August 13:42
steviebee said:
Might be a pain but we'll quickly get used to it.
I'd agree with that if they'd kept the weekly bin collection as well. As it is, I'm going to have to drive to the tip every few weeks and I'm sure I'm not the only one - the "green" benefits of the recycling will quickly be outweighed by hordes of private cars making extra journeys...
neil_cardiff said:
steviebee said:
pdV6 said:
In fact, reading BCC's leaflet revealed the true reason for the changes; if they can't be shown to be doing more recycling, they'll get fined by central government. I can only assume that their way of paying for this is to save money on the bin collection by halving it.
Doesn't quite work like that.
The government has issued targets to all UK authorities with regards to the amount of waste that's recycled. Those authorities that fail to hit their target get fined - a lot. However, those that exceed their targets get financial rewards through something called landfill tax credits and other financial incentives. Also, a lot of recycled waste has good re-sale value - particulalry steel and glass which the council then uses to fund the additional collections.
In theory, it's a win-win situation. Less rubbish going to landfill=less pollution. More recycling=less need for raw materails and less energy to produce new stuff and all this costing less than bunging everything in a single bin. Might be a pain but we'll quickly get used to it.
Why your interest in the Bristol system? You live in Essex?
Edited to add: Oooh, I see now... your profile links to a website of yours regarding something to do with waste?
Edited by neil_cardiff on Tuesday 22 August 13:42
Busted!
www.envirocomms.co.uk
Just a bit of professional curiosity given that we did all the campaign work in Bristol
steviebee said:
neil_cardiff said:
steviebee said:
pdV6 said:
In fact, reading BCC's leaflet revealed the true reason for the changes; if they can't be shown to be doing more recycling, they'll get fined by central government. I can only assume that their way of paying for this is to save money on the bin collection by halving it.
Doesn't quite work like that.
The government has issued targets to all UK authorities with regards to the amount of waste that's recycled. Those authorities that fail to hit their target get fined - a lot. However, those that exceed their targets get financial rewards through something called landfill tax credits and other financial incentives. Also, a lot of recycled waste has good re-sale value - particulalry steel and glass which the council then uses to fund the additional collections.
In theory, it's a win-win situation. Less rubbish going to landfill=less pollution. More recycling=less need for raw materails and less energy to produce new stuff and all this costing less than bunging everything in a single bin. Might be a pain but we'll quickly get used to it.
Why your interest in the Bristol system? You live in Essex?
Edited to add: Oooh, I see now... your profile links to a website of yours regarding something to do with waste?
Edited by neil_cardiff on Tuesday 22 August 13:42
Busted!
www.envirocomms.co.uk
Just a bit of professional curiosity given that we did all the campaign work in Bristol
I don't think anyone has any gripes with the work you guys did - if Petes been reading it, it must be working.
However the gripes will be more from the penny pinching going on from BCC despite the continual rise in our council tax
steviebee said:
Busted!
www.envirocomms.co.uk
Just a bit of professional curiosity given that we did all the campaign work in Bristol
Out of interest, then, was the "filled bin %-age" diagram dictated to you by BCC or was that your own invention?
The reason I ask is that its being used as the sole justification for "selling" the reduced the bin collections to us and is, to my mind, misleading and factually incorrect.
If you want to express your total disgust at the new BCC rubbish recyling scheme, the best place to direct your comments is to a certain Councillor Gary Hopkins, who came up with the idea.
And do you notice how he waited until just after an election to bring it out? So it's now 4 years until we can vote the fr out for lumbering us with this idiotic scheme.
I remember when there used to be a processing centre at the dump. Bin lorries would unload there, and people would sort through the rubbish. Why isn't this still the case? Surely it's a much better solution??
Better still, if the major aim of this is to reduce the amount of rubbish going to landfills, then why not build an incinerator? The fumes can be processed, removing all nasties, and the heat can be put to use generating electricity. A perfect solution if there ever was one.
Ah but wait, no, these things cost money, and BCC aren't interested in spending any money they haven't taken off us first.
And do you notice how he waited until just after an election to bring it out? So it's now 4 years until we can vote the f
r out for lumbering us with this idiotic scheme. I remember when there used to be a processing centre at the dump. Bin lorries would unload there, and people would sort through the rubbish. Why isn't this still the case? Surely it's a much better solution??
Better still, if the major aim of this is to reduce the amount of rubbish going to landfills, then why not build an incinerator? The fumes can be processed, removing all nasties, and the heat can be put to use generating electricity. A perfect solution if there ever was one.
Ah but wait, no, these things cost money, and BCC aren't interested in spending any money they haven't taken off us first.
flooritforever said:
BCC aren't interested in spending any money they haven't taken off us first.
Got it in one.
So, lets say they meet or exceed their recycling targets as a result of the changes...
They get paid a bonus for doing so.
They save money by reducing the bin collections.
They get us to pay for new (garden) bins.
They get us to pay extra for some (garden) collections.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting excess rubish to the tip.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting plastics (other than bottles) for recycling.
Our council tax goes up.
Can somebody please explain the win/win scenario again?
Oh wait - its BCC that's winning
pdV6 said:
flooritforever said:
BCC aren't interested in spending any money they haven't taken off us first.
Got it in one.
So, lets say they meet or exceed their recycling targets as a result of the changes...
They get paid a bonus for doing so.
They save money by reducing the bin collections.
They get us to pay for new (garden) bins.
They get us to pay extra for some (garden) collections.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting excess rubish to the tip.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting plastics (other than bottles) for recycling.
Our council tax goes up.
Can somebody please explain the win/win scenario again?
Oh wait - its BCC that's winning
Don't forget old StevieBee over here who I'm (quite rightly i suppose) made his tidy profit too.
Ultimately the customers don't win. Insane...
pdV6 said:
Out of interest, then, was the "filled bin %-age" diagram dictated to you by BCC or was that your own invention?
The reason I ask is that its being used as the sole justification for "selling" the reduced the bin collections to us and is, to my mind, misleading and factually incorrect.
The idea is based upon a nationaly accepted method but the figures are based upon averages in Bristol. The actual perectages were audited by a not-for-profit organisation called Network Recycling (now Resource Futures) whom we have nothing to do with.
The % s show average domestic waste composition over 130,000 homes in Bristol. There will of course be individual variances - such as with yourself. It's also worth noting that the figures are based on wieght not volume.
flooritforever said:
Better still, if the major aim of this is to reduce the amount of rubbish going to landfills, then why not build an incinerator? The fumes can be processed, removing all nasties, and the heat can be put to use generating electricity. A perfect solution if there ever was one.
It's a solution but landfill diversion is only part of the reason to recycle. There's also the protection of raw materails and the reduction in pollution to make new stuff (about 75% less!). You're right that modern incinerators are different beasts to the ones of 20 years ago but sadly, few people are as well informed as yourself and these facilities are amongst the most difficult buildings to get palnning permsission for. They also cost a hell of a lot of money which would then be reflected in your council tax charges.
That said, there is some consultancy work being done across your region on this very subject and you may want to have a look at www.rubbishorresource.co.uk
pdV6 said:
They get paid a bonus for doing so.
They save money by reducing the bin collections.
They get us to pay for new (garden) bins.
They get us to pay extra for some (garden) collections.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting excess rubish to the tip.
They get us to bear the cost of transporting plastics (other than bottles) for recycling.
Our council tax goes up.
Can somebody please explain the win/win scenario again?
Oh wait - its BCC that's winning
It's not a bonus. they don't get a prize for meeting the targets. They get tax allowances on waste that doesn't go to landfil. This gets used to constantly improve the service as well as buffer any service cost increases to residents.
They're not reducing collections. In fact, they are collecting more bins than before. If you use the scheme correctly, you'll be getting exactly the same level of service as before. Because there is less waste going into your black bin - it doesn't (or shouldn't) need collecting weekly.
Why should someone who doesn't have a garden subsidise those that do?
If used correctly, there should be no reason for extra trips to the tip.
As I understand it, there's a plastic bottle bank within a mile of every home in Bristol.
No recycing service is ever going to suit everybody - it will always be a compromise. The simplest sollution is something called single stream recycling where everything goes in a single bin and gets sorted at a massive facility. Some counties in the States use this and are recycling as much as 90% of their waste. However, in the UK, such a facility would add about £300 - £500 a year on your council tax.
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