Bristol Speed limit stupididty.
Discussion
There is another petition against Bristol's speed limits here
I would appreciate if more people could sign. It's not about people being able to drive faster, it's about speed limits matching the roads they're on, there's no point making pedestrians think that traffic is moving slower than it is, speed limits are not traffic calming, speed limits are there so that the behavior of people who drive with complete disregard for both their own and other people's safety regardless of the conditions (speed limits should be set to assume favorable conditions). Of course the speed limit cannot fulfill that role if the average speed is 8mph over the limit and the non-compliance rate is over 90%, so then having the speed limit too low does become a safety issue.
Trouble just how deeply ingrained it is the belief people have that the speed limit makes a massive difference, there is a road in Chipping Sodbury called Heron Way it's single carriageway, lined with houses and parked cars and because it was meant to be the A432 originally it has a rather generous speed limit of 40mph and just to remind you it's lined with repeaters. Now I've asked people including a couple of former coppers and driving instructors what they think the average speed is along that road, and the often say "50? 60?" no the actual answer is 31!
The average speed is 31 according to SGC and 85% of cars are going at or below 36, so yes, even when the speed limit seems unusually high, speeds aren't, only the compliance is.
I would appreciate if more people could sign. It's not about people being able to drive faster, it's about speed limits matching the roads they're on, there's no point making pedestrians think that traffic is moving slower than it is, speed limits are not traffic calming, speed limits are there so that the behavior of people who drive with complete disregard for both their own and other people's safety regardless of the conditions (speed limits should be set to assume favorable conditions). Of course the speed limit cannot fulfill that role if the average speed is 8mph over the limit and the non-compliance rate is over 90%, so then having the speed limit too low does become a safety issue.
Trouble just how deeply ingrained it is the belief people have that the speed limit makes a massive difference, there is a road in Chipping Sodbury called Heron Way it's single carriageway, lined with houses and parked cars and because it was meant to be the A432 originally it has a rather generous speed limit of 40mph and just to remind you it's lined with repeaters. Now I've asked people including a couple of former coppers and driving instructors what they think the average speed is along that road, and the often say "50? 60?" no the actual answer is 31!
The average speed is 31 according to SGC and 85% of cars are going at or below 36, so yes, even when the speed limit seems unusually high, speeds aren't, only the compliance is.
The whole traffic situation in Bristol 
a joke. 20mph limits everywhere, roadworks and road closures, wierd layouts with odd priorities, gridlock regularly, traffic lights out of sequence...
I would honestly rather drive to our office in Bracknell than cross Bristol to get to my office there.
I will sign the petition though
a joke. 20mph limits everywhere, roadworks and road closures, wierd layouts with odd priorities, gridlock regularly, traffic lights out of sequence...I would honestly rather drive to our office in Bracknell than cross Bristol to get to my office there.
I will sign the petition though
No I won't, you see what I mean about ingrained folks?
I'm reminded again about the Heron Way example the story also said that near by Shire Way (30 limit) had an average speed of 34 and an 85th percentile of 42mph and still some people who live on Heron Way said that the speed limit be dropped, even though they've just been told the speeds are already much lower there than a 30 limit road just around the corner.
Sometimes I justvwant to bang my head against a wall.
I'm reminded again about the Heron Way example the story also said that near by Shire Way (30 limit) had an average speed of 34 and an 85th percentile of 42mph and still some people who live on Heron Way said that the speed limit be dropped, even though they've just been told the speeds are already much lower there than a 30 limit road just around the corner.
Sometimes I justvwant to bang my head against a wall.
Spx said:
Grow up!
When you have kids you'll want the limits back to 20mph.
I have kids and I do not agree with you. There are places where 20mph is sensible and approved of by the majority of sane people I'm sure - outside schools and childrens playgrounds for example - but not everywhere! When you have kids you'll want the limits back to 20mph.
30 mph was fine and had been fine for decades, I'd bet the accident rate has not changed since it was put down to 20mph? And at what cost to the taxpayer? And where is Mr red pants now, gone and left us with (t)his crap to live with!!!!
One of the worst things that has ever happened to our wonderful city along with the ridiculous new parking restrictions like the ones on The Downs.
The only downside to changing it back to 30mph (in most places) is the cost and the fact that it'll mean the move to 20mph was a total waste of money, money that we will never see back.
If you think 20mph is fine why not make it 10 or 5 even??? Or let's all just walk and cycle shall we?
Edited by F1 ASBO on Sunday 18th September 20:18
The problem is the more unrealistic the speed limit comes across, and the more arbitrary the speed limit boundaries are (setting the speed limit back X distance from a change in the character of the road is a classic) creating a situation where motorists are increasingly taking speed limits LESS seriously. It even said so in an academic study into their effects.
Arbitrary, unrealistic and nonuniform speed limits have created a socially acceptable disregard for speed limits. Unrealistic limits increase accident risks for persons who attempt to comply with limit by driving slower or faster than the majority of road users, Unreasonably low limits significantly decrease driver compliance and give road users such as person not familiar with the road [and pedestrians, a false indication of actual traffic speeds.
Arbitrary, unrealistic and nonuniform speed limits have created a socially acceptable disregard for speed limits. Unrealistic limits increase accident risks for persons who attempt to comply with limit by driving slower or faster than the majority of road users, Unreasonably low limits significantly decrease driver compliance and give road users such as person not familiar with the road [and pedestrians, a false indication of actual traffic speeds.
The 'general' public that drive may not be as concientious as you guys. When I see old people, people with children and children on their own struggling to cross the road I believe the 20mph limit is deserved. If drivers generally stopped to let people cross and didn't race towards red lights there would be no need for 20mph limits. When you drive through your town the lights will be red anyway, instead of racing to them why not saunter?
And it gets worse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-37404...
With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
GlenMH said:
And it gets worse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-37404...
With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
Hassn't it been 40 for a while because of the "dangerous" crash barriers ? With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
The other thing that hasn't been picked up on here is the reduction in speed limit also reduces the maintenance obligation placed on the local council and agencies and hence there is a financial incentive for them to reduce the speed limits where at all possible. This was certainly highlighted as a benefit in some of South Gloucestershire recent speed limit reductions...
IIRC the Highways Act basically says something along the lines of (my interpretation) "responsibility is placed upon the authority to repair footpaths, bridalways, roads which are neither trunk roads and/or classified roads and which are restricted to 30mph, restricted to 40mph and so on..."
As long as the road designated 20mph, it is considered "safe for its designation" then the obligation (read - urgency) to repair and maintain it is somewhat significantly reduced, ergo why some of the main routes within the confines of city are in such a poor state.
IIRC the Highways Act basically says something along the lines of (my interpretation) "responsibility is placed upon the authority to repair footpaths, bridalways, roads which are neither trunk roads and/or classified roads and which are restricted to 30mph, restricted to 40mph and so on..."
As long as the road designated 20mph, it is considered "safe for its designation" then the obligation (read - urgency) to repair and maintain it is somewhat significantly reduced, ergo why some of the main routes within the confines of city are in such a poor state.
F1 ASBO said:
I have kids and I do not agree with you. There are places where 20mph is sensible and approved of by the majority of sane people I'm sure - outside schools and childrens playgrounds for example - but not everywhere!
30 mph was fine and had been fine for decades, I'd bet the accident rate has not changed since it was put down to 20mph? And at what cost to the taxpayer? And where is Mr red pants now, gone and left us with (t)his crap to live with!!!!
One of the worst things that has ever happened to our wonderful city along with the ridiculous new parking restrictions like the ones on The Downs.
The only downside to changing it back to 30mph (in most places) is the cost and the fact that it'll mean the move to 20mph was a total waste of money, money that we will never see back.
If you think 20mph is fine why not make it 10 or 5 even??? Or let's all just walk and cycle shall we?
I'm predominantly a cyclist now, although I still drive so see both sides. As a cyclist it's pretty frustrating for two reasons..30 mph was fine and had been fine for decades, I'd bet the accident rate has not changed since it was put down to 20mph? And at what cost to the taxpayer? And where is Mr red pants now, gone and left us with (t)his crap to live with!!!!
One of the worst things that has ever happened to our wonderful city along with the ridiculous new parking restrictions like the ones on The Downs.
The only downside to changing it back to 30mph (in most places) is the cost and the fact that it'll mean the move to 20mph was a total waste of money, money that we will never see back.
If you think 20mph is fine why not make it 10 or 5 even??? Or let's all just walk and cycle shall we?
Edited by F1 ASBO on Sunday 18th September 20:18
1. When I'm moving at 20+ drivers insist on overtaking. This is universal up to and above 40mph though. I think we are just an overtaking 'goal'.
2. I don't think the speed limit is the real problem, It's the traffic. Getting held up by cars when on the bike is as infuriating as when driving.
I'm sort of grateful the Mayor we had drove Bristol to be a cycling city but it's become a bit of a pain too. I know I'm not a standard commuter that's dawdling around at 5mph but even so, I'm not sure those guys will be totally on-board either.
As a driver, I appreciate it's pretty tiresome moving below 25mph. Perhaps that would of been an acceptable middle ground for all?
GlenMH said:
And it gets worse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-37404...
With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
Jesus titty fWith permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
king christ. They've all lost their frickin minds.hornetrider said:
GlenMH said:
And it gets worse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-37404...
With permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
Jesus titty fWith permanent SPECs too. South Glouc is even less car friendly than Bristol, which is frankly remarkable!
king christ. They've all lost their frickin minds.
Nuts. Frankly nuts. I had the pleasure of driving through various parts of Bristol recently on a few days and I adhere to the speed restrictions - in almost every 20 zone I was surrounded by cyclists passing on both sides like wasps around an ice cream, with no regard to their safety whatsoever. One chap had two flat tyres and still bumbled along above the limit (which I know doesn't apply to cyclists.. yet.. sadly)... I also noted that one reason for a stretch of 20 madness application was 'pollution control'. Well whoever decided that was a good idea? I managed 12 MPG through that area whereas I could've managed 30+ a year ago, without stopping. Now there is also a fad of putting traffic lights on perfectly good and working-to-design roundabouts which is causing queues and traffic build up everywhere - it's even reached the A4174.
I remember recently that the power to the Lawrence Hill roundabout was cut for some reason during just past peak time and the traffic queues absolutely vanished. That should tell the people responsible that traffic control, especially on roundabouts needs less attention than throwing money and traffic lights at perceived problem however they seem to be on a mission to waste money regardless.
I'm glad the dick of a mayor has gone but his misaligned, misinformed, short sighted, incorrect, bigoted, car hating, pathetic, asshole tactics are still flowing.
Apologies for the rant.
I remember recently that the power to the Lawrence Hill roundabout was cut for some reason during just past peak time and the traffic queues absolutely vanished. That should tell the people responsible that traffic control, especially on roundabouts needs less attention than throwing money and traffic lights at perceived problem however they seem to be on a mission to waste money regardless.
I'm glad the dick of a mayor has gone but his misaligned, misinformed, short sighted, incorrect, bigoted, car hating, pathetic, asshole tactics are still flowing.
Apologies for the rant.
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