Elise ingress egress
Discussion
Absolutely, I'm six foot and my girlfriend is six two and says it's the most headroom she's ever had in a car. Because the seats are bolted to the floor and you sit so flat compared to other cars it's actually very spacious.
Now getting in, that's another matter! At six foot it's perfectly possible but takes a little practice. The slimmer and more flexible you are the better but my Dad (no offence intended Dad!) managed it no problem and it's certainly worth the effort. Roof off is even easier.
I used to commute through central London in ours and it was great. Only problem (which will be considerably worse in the US) is it's small size costs it road presence. And you won't believe that mileage you can get for the performance.
Are you down for one of the US Elises then?
Chris
>> Edited by chris_w on Thursday 4th December 17:10
Now getting in, that's another matter! At six foot it's perfectly possible but takes a little practice. The slimmer and more flexible you are the better but my Dad (no offence intended Dad!) managed it no problem and it's certainly worth the effort. Roof off is even easier.
I used to commute through central London in ours and it was great. Only problem (which will be considerably worse in the US) is it's small size costs it road presence. And you won't believe that mileage you can get for the performance.
Are you down for one of the US Elises then?
Chris
>> Edited by chris_w on Thursday 4th December 17:10
rossh said:
I hope it doesn't go *too* mainstream though, with rich housewives "discovering" the marque like they would the new beetle etc etc...
No chance, even with the extra soundproofing, newly lined roof and electric windows it will still be a billion times rawer than anything I've seen over here (jost moved to New York). I do actually fear that Americans just won't 'get' the elise (cars are advertised on their size and one manufacturer uses the tag line 'Like a rock' hmmm...) but that said there must be a fair number of enthusiasts and in such a large populace that should still translate into good sales.
Now when Lotus start offering it with an automatic transmission and a larger boot we should start worrying!
Dragstar - getting in and out!
>> Edited by chris_w on Friday 5th December 22:44
Chris W, I called the Chicago area dealer and they have informed me that the earliest I could get an Elise is first quarter of 2 0 0 5 if I order now.
Obviously, I am happy for Lotus and hope that they succeed beyond their wildest imagination. I won't be able to sit in an Elise until March 2004--from what I have seen, the opening looks pretty small with the roof on--I will try the Lotus when they make it to the showroom...
Obviously, I am happy for Lotus and hope that they succeed beyond their wildest imagination. I won't be able to sit in an Elise until March 2004--from what I have seen, the opening looks pretty small with the roof on--I will try the Lotus when they make it to the showroom...
Is "selling out" making the car so that normal people can get into the car and use it everyday?
Was the XKE a sell out because I could get into the car? Is the Ferrari 360 a sell out because mortal human beings can get in and out of the car? Notwithstanding the TVR view of airbags, is everyone here such good drivers that antilock brakes such a horrible thing?
A 1,975 pound car with airbags and anti-lock brakes is not a sell out. IF that is how people define selling out (airbags and antilock brakes), it is no wonder that Porsche, Ferrari (and Viper/Vette)are doing so well selling cars that are great to drive and mortal human beings can actually get in and out!
Was the XKE a sell out because I could get into the car? Is the Ferrari 360 a sell out because mortal human beings can get in and out of the car? Notwithstanding the TVR view of airbags, is everyone here such good drivers that antilock brakes such a horrible thing?
A 1,975 pound car with airbags and anti-lock brakes is not a sell out. IF that is how people define selling out (airbags and antilock brakes), it is no wonder that Porsche, Ferrari (and Viper/Vette)are doing so well selling cars that are great to drive and mortal human beings can actually get in and out!
fizz said:
Is "selling out" making the car so that normal people can get into the car and use it everyday?
Was the XKE a sell out because I could get into the car? Is the Ferrari 360 a sell out because mortal human beings can get in and out of the car? Notwithstanding the TVR view of airbags, is everyone here such good drivers that antilock brakes such a horrible thing?
A 1,975 pound car with airbags and anti-lock brakes is not a sell out. IF that is how people define selling out (airbags and antilock brakes), it is no wonder that Porsche, Ferrari (and Viper/Vette)are doing so well selling cars that are great to drive and mortal human beings can actually get in and out!
not at all. if they make the car easier to get in and out of then great.
BUT, if they also change their philosophy with those changes then they are indeed selling out.
if lotus decide that providing these is the way forward rather than unreal handling, perfect power:weight ratios, lightness and classic styling, then they are selling out.
if they decide to market the car to "rich housewifes" to tempt them away from porkers etc, by emphasising the ABS, Airbags, excellent MPG, ease of parking on the school-trip and great luggage space for shopping then they are selling out.
ABS etc could be the tip off the iceberg. but like i said in my last post, i have faith in our american cousins that this will not happen.
I have 2 deposits at dealers in the US and both have said they suspect my position in line will move up once the "soft" customers drive a car thats not built around climate control and cupholders (oh its sooo cute, i just have to have one!). Lotus is keeping the nature of the car true (although a bit different) this will keep alot of people, that should not be in an Elise, out of it!
..and word is that lotus will offer a delete option to drop the A/C and stereo, so we can pretend its really stripped out! haha - small compromises have to be made to make the car us legal - Lotus has done just that, and nothing else.
..and word is that lotus will offer a delete option to drop the A/C and stereo, so we can pretend its really stripped out! haha - small compromises have to be made to make the car us legal - Lotus has done just that, and nothing else.
fizz said:
Is "selling out" making the car so that normal people can get into the car and use it everyday?
Was the XKE a sell out because I could get into the car? Is the Ferrari 360 a sell out because mortal human beings can get in and out of the car? Notwithstanding the TVR view of airbags, is everyone here such good drivers that antilock brakes such a horrible thing?
A 1,975 pound car with airbags and anti-lock brakes is not a sell out. IF that is how people define selling out (airbags and antilock brakes), it is no wonder that Porsche, Ferrari (and Viper/Vette)are doing so well selling cars that are great to drive and mortal human beings can actually get in and out!
Having driven both a Lotus Elise and a TVR Tuscan, I can say confidently and from personal experience that neither one of them need ABS.
ABS is a "bandaid fix" for bad engineering - well in sports cars anyway. If you design the car, chassis and braking system properly to begin with ABS is actually counterproductive.
Obviously on something heavier and less responsive, ABS would be not only useful but even necessary.
Jon Gwynne said:
Is "selling out" making the car so that normal people can get into the car and use it everyday?
Was the XKE a sell out because I could get into the car? Is the Ferrari 360 a sell out because mortal human beings can get in and out of the car? Notwithstanding the TVR view of airbags, is everyone here such good drivers that antilock brakes such a horrible thing?
A 1,975 pound car with airbags and anti-lock brakes is not a sell out. IF that is how people define selling out (airbags and antilock brakes), it is no wonder that Porsche, Ferrari (and Viper/Vette)are doing so well selling cars that are great to drive and mortal human beings can actually get in and out!
Having driven both a Lotus Elise and a TVR Tuscan, I can say confidently and from personal experience that neither one of them need ABS.
ABS is a "bandaid fix" for bad engineering - well in sports cars anyway. If you design the car, chassis and braking system properly to begin with ABS is actually counterproductive.
Obviously on something heavier and less responsive, ABS would be not only useful but even necessary.
I would agree with you that the Elise (having not driven the TVR) does not NEED ABS but I still think there's a place for it. I recall an Evo magazine Car of the Year feature a couple of years back in which they crashed the only two cars out of the group that didn't haven't ABS (one was a TVR Tuscan I believe). Russell Bulgin (RIP) wrote a reflective piece on what that said about the way the increasingly techno cars were changing their driving behaviour.
But when a kid runs out in front of me prompting a full-on emergency stop (as happened to me last year) I would like to know I could go with my (and the majority of drivers) natural instinct to stand on the middle pedal. Whilst I know how to cadence brake and have practised it in controlled circumstances, the truth is that when it really mattered I would have benefitted from ABS's inclusion.
Chris
In regars to ABS, I read in either EVO or Sports CAr INternational yesterday that the Federalised Elise's ABS system comes on after a few seconds, and not right away. Which they said, means it wont interfere with quick jab the brakes and let them go on the track. IN other words, it wont spoil the track fun. But its there for public road driving and response time.
Think the spirit of the Elise is what is at stake.
The car was designed as a 'drivers car' where people who wanted anything other than a driving experience would be put off - to try to civilise it will be wrong - its not a super car and never will be.
If its sold as an alternative to a Porsche then the new owners will not be happy - its an up market Caterham - and as such quite unique to anything else on the road.
As for getting in and out - I'm 6" with 34” legs - its all a matter of practice.
ABS - not needed it’s almost impossible to lock up even if you stamp on the pedal then your biggest problem is things hitting you from behind.
The car was designed as a 'drivers car' where people who wanted anything other than a driving experience would be put off - to try to civilise it will be wrong - its not a super car and never will be.
If its sold as an alternative to a Porsche then the new owners will not be happy - its an up market Caterham - and as such quite unique to anything else on the road.
As for getting in and out - I'm 6" with 34” legs - its all a matter of practice.
ABS - not needed it’s almost impossible to lock up even if you stamp on the pedal then your biggest problem is things hitting you from behind.
I have a series 1 elise with a hardtop which is a bit harder to get in and out of than the series 2 and I'm 6'1" and 195 lbs.
I have had some very determined friends squeeze themselves into the car (6'3 or 4 and 250lbs or more) just to experience a burn-up (I have a tuned Honda type-R with 220bhp...)
There is a lot more headroom than a Miata, and it feels like more legroom as well, but you sit a lot lower. I find the Miata tight, and the Elise comfortable, and can wear a race helmet with the roof on no problem.
I'll be at the West Coast Lotus meet in Tahoe at the end of May, so will several other S1/Honda and US spec Elises... See www.gglotus.org
I have had some very determined friends squeeze themselves into the car (6'3 or 4 and 250lbs or more) just to experience a burn-up (I have a tuned Honda type-R with 220bhp...)
There is a lot more headroom than a Miata, and it feels like more legroom as well, but you sit a lot lower. I find the Miata tight, and the Elise comfortable, and can wear a race helmet with the roof on no problem.
I'll be at the West Coast Lotus meet in Tahoe at the end of May, so will several other S1/Honda and US spec Elises... See www.gglotus.org
gfun said:
ABS - not needed it’s almost impossible to lock up even if you stamp on the pedal then your biggest problem is things hitting you from behind.
this is crap -have you ever actually driven your elise?
Check out the Nurburgring crash posted on Seloc - the guy understeers/locks up and writes off his S2 its a 27mb file but i'll try to find the link.
The standard brake set-up on the S2 is poor to awful. In the wet with x-drilled discs you can forget it - i leave leave c.2-3miles stopping distance as the brakes go from nothing to lock-up. As i've said before pedal feel is great though -you know immediately you're not gonna stop.
cheers
tupolev
>> Edited by Tupolev on Friday 20th February 18:54
>> Edited by Tupolev on Friday 20th February 22:14
Tupolev said:
ABS - not needed it’s almost impossible to lock up even if you stamp on the pedal then your biggest problem is things hitting you from behind.
this is crap -have you ever actually driven your elise?
Check out the Nurburgring crash posted on Seloc - the guy understeers/locks up and writes off his S2 its a 27mb file but i'll try to find the link.
The standard brake set-up on the S2 is poor to awful. In the wet with x-drilled discs you can forget it - i leave leave c.2-3miles stopping distance as the brakes go from nothing to lock-up. As i've said before pedal feel is great though -you know immediately you're not gonna stop.
cheers
tupolev
>> Edited by Tupolev on Friday 20th February 18:54
>> Edited by Tupolev on Friday 20th February 22:14
An interesting if robust opinion.
Yes if you drive past the limits of any car you will bin it - and your man at the ring ABS would not have saved.
But just to check I did my best to lock up today and managed to get a front o/s to lock - but it was hard work.
However I think ABS will be just the job for you :-)
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