What a dipstick....
Discussion
Picture the scene - 10:30pm the cold, dark night before your planned epic trip to Nurburg is about to start and you think 'i'll go and check the car is ready'...so off I go torch in hand to check fluids, tyres etc....only to find that the dipstick has broken off part way down the tube!
Now when I bought the car there was a very short dipstick in the dipstick tube and a 'real/normal' one kept in the boot - the owner told me to use the one in the boot to check the oil level and to leave the short one in the plug when done. He mentioned something about a 'racing sump' as I recall but not really sure what that's supposed to mean or has to do with anything?!
Anyway having had the S3 serviced a few months back the mechanic couldn't see why I shouldn't just leave the normal-length dipstick in place, so I threw the short one, replaced with the normal one and drove away. Now a few hundred miles later I come to check the oil and find the normal dipstick is now a short one too!
As i'm sure you'd have done I decided "to hell with it" and drove to Nurburg anyway and ended up having a cracking time with the others (thanks again Longers for all your help arranging the meet up!) and went on to do another 1200 miles around Belgium, Germany, Luxumbourg and France with no faults, noises or engine trouble at all - in fact the car was faultless and ran as sweet as ever!
Now i'm back home i'd really like to pull the broken bit of dipstick from the tube (can feel it very low down using a telescopic magnet mounted on an aerial pole) and possibly try to recover any others that are sitting down on the sump or trapped in the filter.
So questions for you all:
1 - Anyone else ever had this issue? I really can't work out how it's happening unless the wrong dipstick length is being used over and over and the crank is somehow fouling it? Could the crank really hit a dipstick on the 2.9 V6?!
2 - Any ideas on how to remove the broken bits without dropping the sump?
3 - Is dropping the sump really going to need me to remove the ARB and exhaust?!
4 - If so, how easy is this - any major things to be careful of? Can I get away with jacking up the front on Halfords 2 tonne jacks only, crawl underneath and get to everything I should need to access?
5 - Should I just need new oil, filter and sump gasket if dropping the sump is the only route I can go?
As always any hints, tips, useful advice or general mickey-taking is always appreciated.
A
Now when I bought the car there was a very short dipstick in the dipstick tube and a 'real/normal' one kept in the boot - the owner told me to use the one in the boot to check the oil level and to leave the short one in the plug when done. He mentioned something about a 'racing sump' as I recall but not really sure what that's supposed to mean or has to do with anything?!
Anyway having had the S3 serviced a few months back the mechanic couldn't see why I shouldn't just leave the normal-length dipstick in place, so I threw the short one, replaced with the normal one and drove away. Now a few hundred miles later I come to check the oil and find the normal dipstick is now a short one too!
As i'm sure you'd have done I decided "to hell with it" and drove to Nurburg anyway and ended up having a cracking time with the others (thanks again Longers for all your help arranging the meet up!) and went on to do another 1200 miles around Belgium, Germany, Luxumbourg and France with no faults, noises or engine trouble at all - in fact the car was faultless and ran as sweet as ever!
Now i'm back home i'd really like to pull the broken bit of dipstick from the tube (can feel it very low down using a telescopic magnet mounted on an aerial pole) and possibly try to recover any others that are sitting down on the sump or trapped in the filter.
So questions for you all:
1 - Anyone else ever had this issue? I really can't work out how it's happening unless the wrong dipstick length is being used over and over and the crank is somehow fouling it? Could the crank really hit a dipstick on the 2.9 V6?!
2 - Any ideas on how to remove the broken bits without dropping the sump?
3 - Is dropping the sump really going to need me to remove the ARB and exhaust?!
4 - If so, how easy is this - any major things to be careful of? Can I get away with jacking up the front on Halfords 2 tonne jacks only, crawl underneath and get to everything I should need to access?
5 - Should I just need new oil, filter and sump gasket if dropping the sump is the only route I can go?
As always any hints, tips, useful advice or general mickey-taking is always appreciated.
A
2 thoughts to get it out apart from the obvious dropping of the sump.
1. Will the dipstick tube come out of the block? On the V8 its cast into the block but does come out it you pull it & wiggle it hard enough.
2. Wildcard guess but can you get something down the dipstick tube to grab it? Maybe some forceps or something like an old propelling pencil with the 3 jaws?
1. Will the dipstick tube come out of the block? On the V8 its cast into the block but does come out it you pull it & wiggle it hard enough.
2. Wildcard guess but can you get something down the dipstick tube to grab it? Maybe some forceps or something like an old propelling pencil with the 3 jaws?
Hi Anders. Glad to hear you got back OK. Removing the dipstick tube sounds like a good idea to me, if it's possible.. If there is another remnant in the sump why not just leave it there? Next time you change the oil you could try and manourve the remains out the plug hole with big magnet - assuming there is one in there in the first place. Cheers - Joe
Hi Anders
Not sure how big a diameter this is but it looks like it might pull your dipstick out ? 1.3kg lift ...
I was looking for one with the little jaws as Chris was suggesting when I saw this
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...
I hope its not too difficult to get out
K
this is what I was looking for...
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...
Not sure how big a diameter this is but it looks like it might pull your dipstick out ? 1.3kg lift ...
I was looking for one with the little jaws as Chris was suggesting when I saw this
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...
I hope its not too difficult to get out
K
this is what I was looking for...
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...
Edited by ketvrin on Tuesday 5th October 18:18
Don't really understand whats happenning ?Even if the sump is deeper, shallower or whatever the line of the dipstick should be the same and clear any moving parts. Does end of dip stick look its been worn away or snapped off ?
Does sump look different to standard ?
This is what a normal sump looks like, and thats my "patented" removeable cross member in its design stage which allows sump removal with engine in.
Does sump look different to standard ?
This is what a normal sump looks like, and thats my "patented" removeable cross member in its design stage which allows sump removal with engine in.
Thanks everyone for your excellent ideas and thoughts on what on earth is going on!
So from Philpot's pics it looks like either engine-out or cross-member cut to drop the pan - ouch! Guess cut is quicker and cheaper if it comes to it.
Thanks Joe too for the offer of the clasp - I see Maplin sells the same one and i've got one near to my work so i'll pop in tomorrow and try to pick one up and give that a go first. I'm only concerned it may not fit down the small tube?
When it's light i'll get a photo of the dipstick - to me it looks very much snapped and not worn. Someone at work thought maybe the crankshaft had been balanced at some point and a weight on it was somehow fouling the dipstick? Not knowing a huge amount of anything S3 related i'm at a loss so can't really hazard a guess.
I did look at the tube but it looked riveted onto the engine block - can anyone else with a 2.9 confirm this is definitely not pull-offable!?
As you say it's tempting to just forget about it, but i'm left now unable to measure the oil level so am a bit stuck for future maintenance and servicing until I at least get the one i can 'feel' is stuck in the tube out! Hmmmmm...
The dipstick's are all yellow-handled too - does that match the ones in your engines? I'm wondering if they're the wrong length of type maybe??
I'll keep you all posted.
So from Philpot's pics it looks like either engine-out or cross-member cut to drop the pan - ouch! Guess cut is quicker and cheaper if it comes to it.
Thanks Joe too for the offer of the clasp - I see Maplin sells the same one and i've got one near to my work so i'll pop in tomorrow and try to pick one up and give that a go first. I'm only concerned it may not fit down the small tube?
When it's light i'll get a photo of the dipstick - to me it looks very much snapped and not worn. Someone at work thought maybe the crankshaft had been balanced at some point and a weight on it was somehow fouling the dipstick? Not knowing a huge amount of anything S3 related i'm at a loss so can't really hazard a guess.
I did look at the tube but it looked riveted onto the engine block - can anyone else with a 2.9 confirm this is definitely not pull-offable!?
As you say it's tempting to just forget about it, but i'm left now unable to measure the oil level so am a bit stuck for future maintenance and servicing until I at least get the one i can 'feel' is stuck in the tube out! Hmmmmm...
The dipstick's are all yellow-handled too - does that match the ones in your engines? I'm wondering if they're the wrong length of type maybe??
I'll keep you all posted.
This has got me intrigued !
Balancing is normally done by drilling holes and filling with lead if weight needs to be added.
Photo doesn't show up very well but looks like dipstick tube is probably just an "interference fit" into the block ( maybe swaged a little then pressed in when made ?)
Some measurements : shoulder to full mark = 345mm
low mark = 370mm
end of dipstick = 390mm
HTH
Mike
Balancing is normally done by drilling holes and filling with lead if weight needs to be added.
Photo doesn't show up very well but looks like dipstick tube is probably just an "interference fit" into the block ( maybe swaged a little then pressed in when made ?)
Some measurements : shoulder to full mark = 345mm
low mark = 370mm
end of dipstick = 390mm
HTH
Mike
Back to the drawing board!.....
Went to Maplin and bought their £4 extending flexible spring-loaded claw and the tip is too large to push down the dipstick tube so there's that idea put to shame
Think i've got no choice but to stow the car for the winter and pay to have someone remove it in the spring when it comes out of hibernation!
Went to Maplin and bought their £4 extending flexible spring-loaded claw and the tip is too large to push down the dipstick tube so there's that idea put to shame
Think i've got no choice but to stow the car for the winter and pay to have someone remove it in the spring when it comes out of hibernation!
I've just come across a similar issue.
I recently bought a replacement engine for my S3 (an earier version of the 2.9 with a different fuel manifold) only to discover that approx 9cm is missing off the end of the dipstick. The rest of the dipstick is identical to that in my current engine and there is no indication that the sump on the replacement engine has been modified.
As far as I can establish the end of the dipstick is not especially close to the webs of the crank - I will know more when I get round to removing the sump.
I recently bought a replacement engine for my S3 (an earier version of the 2.9 with a different fuel manifold) only to discover that approx 9cm is missing off the end of the dipstick. The rest of the dipstick is identical to that in my current engine and there is no indication that the sump on the replacement engine has been modified.
As far as I can establish the end of the dipstick is not especially close to the webs of the crank - I will know more when I get round to removing the sump.
Hiya,
Well i've had no luck with magnets, claws or bent pieces of wire and my local TVR garage have told me it's either:
1 - Engine out
2 - Cut chassis to drop the sump
3 - Try to pull dipstick tube from engine block and access part from there...
Either way it's beginning to sound stupidly expensive to rectify such a basic issue. Am at the stage now where I'm tempted to just sell my S3 and give up on TVR as nothing seems easy or cheap to fix and it's slowly breaking the bank.
A
Well i've had no luck with magnets, claws or bent pieces of wire and my local TVR garage have told me it's either:
1 - Engine out
2 - Cut chassis to drop the sump
3 - Try to pull dipstick tube from engine block and access part from there...
Either way it's beginning to sound stupidly expensive to rectify such a basic issue. Am at the stage now where I'm tempted to just sell my S3 and give up on TVR as nothing seems easy or cheap to fix and it's slowly breaking the bank.
A
I guess my concern is that when I bought the car it already had a short dipstick so gawd knows how many are in the sump now!
I've just spoken to Enginuity who think they can jack up the engine in situ and drop the sump and clear it all out for about 5 hours labour. While they do it they said they could fit new coolant hoses, pipes and a stainless swirl pot I had in stock ready for the S's next service so it may be a chance to do the 'right' thing and get it sorted - although I do like the idea of using external magnets to hold any bits down in the sump, the issue is that the old stick is blocking the tube a fair bit and so just buying a new dipstick (hard to find i'm realising!) may push it further into the sump and then cause me problems possibly?
I'll try pulling the dipstick tube from the sump too - but am going to source a spare first just in case! Any pointers where I may find a dipstick and spare tube for the 2.9?
Cheers all,
A
I've just spoken to Enginuity who think they can jack up the engine in situ and drop the sump and clear it all out for about 5 hours labour. While they do it they said they could fit new coolant hoses, pipes and a stainless swirl pot I had in stock ready for the S's next service so it may be a chance to do the 'right' thing and get it sorted - although I do like the idea of using external magnets to hold any bits down in the sump, the issue is that the old stick is blocking the tube a fair bit and so just buying a new dipstick (hard to find i'm realising!) may push it further into the sump and then cause me problems possibly?
I'll try pulling the dipstick tube from the sump too - but am going to source a spare first just in case! Any pointers where I may find a dipstick and spare tube for the 2.9?
Cheers all,
A
Hi.
I have a couple of suggestions which may help.
With regards to the dipstick tube, if it is a push fit as seems to be suggested there may be an easy way to get it out in one piece? If you find a bolt of a similar sized threaded portion to the internal diameter of the tube, you may be able to pop it in the top and then get some grips or plyers around the outside of the tube but only gripping on the part where the bolt is. This means some gentle persuation would not colapse the tube as you will be using the bolt to keep the shape. Once removed you may be lucky and be able to pull the remaining piece of the dipstick out.
Second suggestion is that if you are not sure if you have the correct replacement dipstick, drain the oil and filter and refil with correct amount of oil. Run the engine and let it settle. You then have an indication on your new dipstick for FULL. Re-mark the dipstick if required. You won't be far off oil wise.
I would be tempted to try the above before trying to drop the sump in situ. Either way good luck.
Only had a quick look at the previous suggestions so appologies if I have gone over old ground.
Stew.
I have a couple of suggestions which may help.
With regards to the dipstick tube, if it is a push fit as seems to be suggested there may be an easy way to get it out in one piece? If you find a bolt of a similar sized threaded portion to the internal diameter of the tube, you may be able to pop it in the top and then get some grips or plyers around the outside of the tube but only gripping on the part where the bolt is. This means some gentle persuation would not colapse the tube as you will be using the bolt to keep the shape. Once removed you may be lucky and be able to pull the remaining piece of the dipstick out.
Second suggestion is that if you are not sure if you have the correct replacement dipstick, drain the oil and filter and refil with correct amount of oil. Run the engine and let it settle. You then have an indication on your new dipstick for FULL. Re-mark the dipstick if required. You won't be far off oil wise.
I would be tempted to try the above before trying to drop the sump in situ. Either way good luck.
Only had a quick look at the previous suggestions so appologies if I have gone over old ground.
Stew.
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