URGENT RADIATOR QUESTION LEAVING ON HOLIDAY TOMORROW

[The Stiglet]

Picked car up today, supposed to be going to South of France tomorrow morning. Car was suffering overheating issues, is now running EVEN HOTTER! Radiator appears not to have been recored and is instead a Chimaera exchange?! What's the deal with this? Does it work, looks smaller?

I've had everything replaced, thermostat, water pump, oil filter, fuel pump, fan by-pass switch and it now runs between the white line and the red line - must be 100 deg and the fan sounds like it is always on. It was never this hot before. Yes, I've had new coolant and had it bled etc...

I need to know if I can get on that ferry tomorrow or if I need to cancel.

Please let me know tonight if anyone is around.

Thanks as always
Pierce

Edited by The Stiglet on Saturday 4th July 22:44

[tinks v8S]

WHAT ISSUES DID YOU HAVE BEFORE
WITH OVER HEATING
IF FAN IS ON CONSTANT MUST RUN COOLER THAN THAT
MY FAN COMES ON AT 88-90
I WOULD NOT RISK IT I WOULD HAVE MADE CHECKS DAYS IF NOT WEEKS BEFORE

GOOD LOOK

[The Stiglet]

tinks v8S said:

WHAT ISSUES DID YOU HAVE BEFORE
WITH OVER HEATING
IF FAN IS ON CONSTANT MUST RUN COOLER THAN THAT
MY FAN COMES ON AT 88-90
I WOULD NOT RISK IT I WOULD HAVE MADE CHECKS DAYS IF NOT WEEKS BEFORE

GOOD LOOK

Yeah I think you are right, thanks mate, I've cancelled it now.

It ran too hot and started to pink before, radiator had a hole in it and leaked. Coolant may not have been circulating properly as fluid different colour in swirl tank and expansion tank. One green, one rusty coloured.

I think the radiator they have replaced it with, from a Chimaera, is too small and won't cool the engine sufficiently. Can anyone tell me anything about this radiator?

I would have made checks too if the garage hadn't kept the car for 2 weeks and told me everything would be fine.

I'm gutted. I need to know how the running temperature has gone up around 7 degrees from running below the white line to above it, punching the red line at speed. With all the work done, how can it be worse?

[page3]

Sounds like the radiator is simply wrong and cannot cope with the S's unique cooling properties.

Perhaps try calling a few of the specialists and see if they can do an emergency radiator replacement. Won't be cheap though

Good luck.

[Harry1972M]

Why the hell did they put in a radiator from a totally different car ??? and where is the original now ?? a simple refurb costing around £120 would not only be correct but probably a damn sight cheaper.

Graham

[Ragtop]

I would be surprised if a genuine Chim radiator that can cope with 4+ litres of engine couldn't cope with Henry's 2.9l, unless the radiator airflow in a Chim is much superior. Regardless of that, if you asked for a re-core and got an incorrect substitute instead, go back and complain.

Start with the obvious things first:
1. check for airlocks
2. check the thermostat opens properly - when you run it up to temp from cold the big top hose should get very hot very suddenly at around the normal running temp. It's possible you have too hot a thermostat fitted - can you find the box it came in, or a code number on your bill?
3. Check the cooling fan is blowing the right way
4. Check all the hoses go to the right places
5. Check the ignition timing
6. Check alternator belt (cos it drives the water pump, I think)
7. Check it is REALLY too hot, not a gauge or sender fault

There's a few for starters. I'm sure others will be along soon with more ideas.

Good luck,
Graham

[Wiz]

Sounds like you need to find a better garage Pierce. Must be a specialist some where near you.

[Barkychoc]

Pierce if you need a rad to recore I have a new one for the V8S - I still have the old one.
It leaks in the bottom drivers side corner.
It doesn't have a bleed valve as I've had to transfer that to the new one, but I believe its a standard possibly Rover part.

[The Stiglet]

Thank you guys for taking the time out on a Sunday. I'm going to spend a large part of the morning checking everything that has been suggested. I think it must all stem from the radiator being the wrong size (actually looks smaller) because with everything that could affect the temperature replaced and then it suddenly going up 7 deg, it would make sense that is just can't cope.

I wonder how a Chimaera unit can't cope though as it normally deals with V8's. Perhaps the free flow space for air in the S is smaller or the Chimaera has better induction - or the V6 just gets hotter?? I have no idea myself...

I'll take some pics and load them up so people might see what I mean.

Barkychoc - you've come to my rescue again...I imagine my old radiator is on a scrap yard somewhere so your kind offer may be gratefully excepted. Let's see what today and tomorrow brings after I speak to the garage and I will PM you.

Can I just confirm once and for all, what water temperature should the car being running at as a working average? S1, 2.8

Edited by The Stiglet on Sunday 5th July 10:41

[Gerald-TVR]

Throw it back to the garage who I guess arnt TVR specialists must be someone in london who are TVR S Series specialists - any suggestions folks

[Barkychoc]

My Rad is S3/4/V8S which has slightly different brackets on the top - but it will be a hell of a lot closer than a chimaera raiator!

[GreenV8S]

Don't put too much faith in the numbers on the gauge unless you've calibrated it separately, but showing hotter now plus fans on does suggest it's running hotter.

Have you bled the radiator as well as the engine? They have to be bled separately.

What temperature stat is fitted? There are lots of options available, and if they've fitted a hot one it'll run hotter of course.

If you are not getting flow between the swirl tank and the plastic header tank then perhaps they are not plumbed up correctly, or perhaps you have the caps on the wrong way round. It can be made to work either way round but ideally the pressure cap should be on the plastic header tank and just a blanking cap on the swirl tank.

Is the system holding pressure? If not, you may get nucleate boiling around hot spots in the heads which will reduce coolant flow and make the engine run a lot hotter. This can also be a problem if the engine is silted up so badly that flow is restricted. A cooling system flush would be a good idea.

[The Stiglet]

GreenV8S said:

Don't put too much faith in the numbers on the gauge unless you've calibrated it separately, but showing hotter now plus fans on does suggest it's running hotter.

Have you bled the radiator as well as the engine? They have to be bled separately.

What temperature stat is fitted? There are lots of options available, and if they've fitted a hot one it'll run hotter of course.

If you are not getting flow between the swirl tank and the plastic header tank then perhaps they are not plumbed up correctly, or perhaps you have the caps on the wrong way round. It can be made to work either way round but ideally the pressure cap should be on the plastic header tank and just a blanking cap on the swirl tank.

Is the system holding pressure? If not, you may get nucleate boiling around hot spots in the heads which will reduce coolant flow and make the engine run a lot hotter. This can also be a problem if the engine is silted up so badly that flow is restricted. A cooling system flush would be a good idea.

Yes, the radiator is new so it had to be bled. All the coolant has been replaced and the engine has been flushed. The stat is still probably a standard one I believe, but I do not have the part number. We discussed putting a cooler one in and I wonder if they have done this but I can't tell from receipt.

All the plumbing is correct as is the pressure. The system works.

Does anyone know the dimensions/difference between the Chimaera radiator and what should be on mine? Has anyone ever heard of this radiator being used in an S?

[GreenV8S]

Chim radiator will certainly be big enough for the job, and your S will have better air flow than the Chim. By checking air and water temperatures it would be possible to tell whether the problem is associated with lack of water flow, or lack or air flow, or connection between the two. But without that you can still check the basics - is the coolant up to the correct level and not leaking, engine and radiator both bled (don't assume they are OK just because they were bled previously), cooling system holding pressure.

[page3]

Worth noting that once I had the cooling system on my S sorted, it took about the next 8 journeys to release the remaining air in the system via the radiator bleed valve.

Now it sits perfectly on the while line once up to temperature (and standing in traffic), with lower temperatures when travelling faster.

[The Stiglet]

GreenV8S said:

Chim radiator will certainly be big enough for the job, and your S will have better air flow than the Chim. By checking air and water temperatures it would be possible to tell whether the problem is associated with lack of water flow, or lack or air flow, or connection between the two. But without that you can still check the basics - is the coolant up to the correct level and not leaking, engine and radiator both bled (don't assume they are OK just because they were bled previously), cooling system holding pressure.

In between this amazing Wimbledon final I've put 3 litres of water into the system!! Air is hissing out like a tornado from the radiator bleed valve. Started and run up 3 times now. Engine now holding temperature on white line even if neighbours are getting twitchy. Good call GreenV8S.

Will do city journey after Wimbledon final and see how it behaves.

Page3 - that's interesting to note, thank you. Will see if it needs top up later again.

Edited by The Stiglet on Sunday 5th July 18:41

[Barkychoc]

Even if it is OK I'd try and retrieve your old rad as they are now unobtainable, chuck it in the garage just in case.

[Gerald-TVR]

Barkychoc said:

"GENTLY" chuck it in the garage just in case.

[The Stiglet]

Done 27 miles down the M3 and noticed the following:

Oil pressure fluctuating (looks like it could be electrical) but strong under good acceleration.

Temperature lower, sitting on white line but then with speed begins to creep up over it. As the speed comes down, it goes down too.

In traffic, sits on white line, begins to creep up after a minute or two. When I manually put on the fan, it does not lower but holds the temperature.

When we brought the car to a stop and checked the radiator, more air came out. Needed about another 1/2 a litre.

What is the deal with the swirl tank and expansion tank pressure caps - should the expansion tank have the pressure cap on it? Traditionally the swirl tank on mine has been the one with the pressure cap. We swapped them round today and didn't appear to make any difference.

No suggestion of contamination of oil or water. No gunge in rocker cover at fill point. Engine sounds good. Running sweet. I need a consensus about the Chimaera radiator - for or against? Up to it or not?



Cheers
Pierce

Edited by The Stiglet on Sunday 5th July 21:03

[page3]

The Stiglet said:

Done 27 miles down the M3 and noticed the following:

Oil pressure fluctuating (looks like it could be electrical) but strong under good acceleration.

Mine does that - when it bothers to work at all.

The Stiglet said:

Temperature lower, sitting on white line but then with speed begins to creep up over it. As the speed comes down, it goes down too.

Mine runs at about 70 on the motorway so that sounds a bit high. The S does need its fan going (occasionally) when at speed though otherwise it'll still overheat.

The Stiglet said:

In traffic, sits on white line, begins to creep up after a minute or two. When I manually put on the fan, it does not lower but holds the temperature.

Mine now stays pretty much on the line, but perhaps nudges up a (teeny) bit in heavy traffic before the fan kicks in and it returns to the line.

The Stiglet said:

When we brought the car to a stop and checked the radiator, more air came out. Needed about another 1/2 a litre.

Sounds like a lot of air. Mine needed bleeding for ages, but no where near that much.

The Stiglet said:

What is the deal with the swirl tank and expansion tank pressure caps - should the expansion tank have the pressure cap on it? Traditionally the swirl tank on mine has been the one with the pressure cap. We swapped them round today and didn't appear to make any difference.

The Stiglet said:

No suggestion of contamination of oil or water. No gunge in rocker cover at fill point. Engine sounds good. Running sweet. I need a consensus about the Chimaera radiator - for or against? Up to it or not?

Still sounds to me like air getting in somewhere.

Perhaps try a new pressure cap? Made a difference on mine. Also, is the water pump working fully? All the issues on mine turned out to be caused by an intermittent fault on the pump which caused a rather dramatic overheat at 120mhp+ (in Germany!) which took out the thermostat, pressure cap and a few hoses!