Exhaust Manifold Diaries
Discussion
For entertainment value I thought I'd diarise the forthcoming weeks work on the car.
So.....
Day1
Drive from Bow to North London to collect new S/S Exhaust Manifolds to find they haven't arrived yet and they haven't sorted out my new brake bits either
......
So on to Norfolk with an increasingly loud car, at least it helped get the traffic out of the way.
Car now in garage with rear on ramps and front on axle stands, bonnet up and penetrating oil on the manifold nuts.
Plan for tomorrow is to take the inlet manifold out, then the heads and lift them off with the manifolds attached to be dealt with on the bench.
For those that want pictures.....I haven't been able to sort out a digital but will be taking shots with standard camera all the way through (see me at the S meet)
See ya tomorrow !
Mark
So.....
Day1
Drive from Bow to North London to collect new S/S Exhaust Manifolds to find they haven't arrived yet and they haven't sorted out my new brake bits either
...... So on to Norfolk with an increasingly loud car, at least it helped get the traffic out of the way.
Car now in garage with rear on ramps and front on axle stands, bonnet up and penetrating oil on the manifold nuts.
Plan for tomorrow is to take the inlet manifold out, then the heads and lift them off with the manifolds attached to be dealt with on the bench.
For those that want pictures.....I haven't been able to sort out a digital but will be taking shots with standard camera all the way through (see me at the S meet)
See ya tomorrow !
Mark
Patrick,
The hole in the manifold that I can see (wrapped in Thermotec) is uderneath the alternator. Number 1 cyliner, just on the curve of the manifold on the top. It's a split about an 1 1/2 inches long. Looks like it has just got thin and cracked. Will photograph ti once its out.
The decision to take the manifolds off with the heads was down to the belief that I won't get the studs out of head and so will end up having to have at least one off anyway. It gives me an opportunity to replace valve seals and head gaskets etc etc. Additionally it will be a lot easier to deal with the studs on the bench rather than down the side of the chassis etc etc
I'm just about to take the heads off now having just stopped for lunch. Everything else is off and out the way already...
Seeyah later,
Mark
The hole in the manifold that I can see (wrapped in Thermotec) is uderneath the alternator. Number 1 cyliner, just on the curve of the manifold on the top. It's a split about an 1 1/2 inches long. Looks like it has just got thin and cracked. Will photograph ti once its out.
The decision to take the manifolds off with the heads was down to the belief that I won't get the studs out of head and so will end up having to have at least one off anyway. It gives me an opportunity to replace valve seals and head gaskets etc etc. Additionally it will be a lot easier to deal with the studs on the bench rather than down the side of the chassis etc etc
I'm just about to take the heads off now having just stopped for lunch. Everything else is off and out the way already...
Seeyah later,
Mark
Well?, you've had all afternoon.. how'd it go? 
How are you cleaning up your valves/head, and have you got the bit's to re do the valve lapping?
While your heads are off Mark, check out the 3 core plugs on each side of the block. If they look rough/leaking, now's the ideal time to replace - they only cost about 70p each from Ford.
Also: in case you've not already done so, you'll need to get a new head bolt set - you cant reuse the old ones. I paid £20 for mine. The final torque up procedure requres them to be angle torqued 90 degrees, so you'll need the tool for this - saw one the other day (£10)
Cheers,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Friday 1st March 18:18
How are you cleaning up your valves/head, and have you got the bit's to re do the valve lapping?
While your heads are off Mark, check out the 3 core plugs on each side of the block. If they look rough/leaking, now's the ideal time to replace - they only cost about 70p each from Ford.
Also: in case you've not already done so, you'll need to get a new head bolt set - you cant reuse the old ones. I paid £20 for mine. The final torque up procedure requres them to be angle torqued 90 degrees, so you'll need the tool for this - saw one the other day (£10)
Cheers,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Friday 1st March 18:18
Day 2...
Managed to get down to the heads within 1 1/2 hrs. All of the inlet manifol out of the way, fuel rail, alternator etc etc...
At this stage the manifolds are still attached to the heads and the downpipes. Decide that it is too awkward to get manifolds away from downpipes and lift head off at same time so decide to cut off the manifolds at the bend. This also revealed the extent of the crack in the manifold is far more substantial than first thought with the pipe nearly broken all the way round. It did have a 150 mile run yesterday though.
Both heads came off with no issue and the bores look in really good nick, chuffed at 84,000 miles. The valves and cylinder head look in good nick for the mileage aswell. More on that tomorrow..
Once I had both heads and (now shortened) manifolds on the bench I went after the studs.
To cut a long story short out 12 studs I managed to get 4 out without any problems. Although to get any purchase on the corroded heads I had to hammer a spanner onto them which was a size smaller, this was due to the corrosion. With 3 the head rang off flush to the manifold. The remaining 5 were buggers !! The heads themselves round after time and then required drilling off....
Once the manifolds were off and out of the way completely (manifolds are not threaded) I managed to shift 4 of the remainder with monkey pliers, penetrating oil and a lot of patience. The remaining 4 sheared off against the head trying to do the same thing. Tried using heat aswell but blow torch didn't offer enough heat really.
Between my dad and I this evening we have managed to drill out the remaining studs. Bit of luck was that we had a Tap just the right size and have cleared the threads out aswell. Only one stud left to do the same in the morning. The threads are intact and all things being equal we'll have no issue with the other one in the morning.
Once the final stud is out I will strip the valves out and replace the seals and regrind them. I may get the local engine centre to skim the head for me although it looks in great condition and will clean up alright anyway.
The decoke kit from Fords cam with all the gaskets and new headbolts. I have a large persuading bar that I used to undo 'em today which will put the final 90 degree torque on them when I do 'em up. I do need to buy some new manifold studs though...
The manifolds arrived in N London this morning and will be here on Monday. I want to make sure the apertures are the same size as the heads before i install them permanently and will get them machined out if they aren't. My intention is also to wrap them in thermotec before I put them back on aswell.
Dave,
What's valve 'lapping' ?? I will take the valves out and clean them up on the bench to remove any calcium and coking. Then I'll regrind them into the seats. They look all nicely coloured and therefor I don't foresee any issues with just cleaning the seats up a little.
I'll give you a further update tomorrow....
Cheers
Mark
Managed to get down to the heads within 1 1/2 hrs. All of the inlet manifol out of the way, fuel rail, alternator etc etc...
At this stage the manifolds are still attached to the heads and the downpipes. Decide that it is too awkward to get manifolds away from downpipes and lift head off at same time so decide to cut off the manifolds at the bend. This also revealed the extent of the crack in the manifold is far more substantial than first thought with the pipe nearly broken all the way round. It did have a 150 mile run yesterday though.
Both heads came off with no issue and the bores look in really good nick, chuffed at 84,000 miles. The valves and cylinder head look in good nick for the mileage aswell. More on that tomorrow..
Once I had both heads and (now shortened) manifolds on the bench I went after the studs.
To cut a long story short out 12 studs I managed to get 4 out without any problems. Although to get any purchase on the corroded heads I had to hammer a spanner onto them which was a size smaller, this was due to the corrosion. With 3 the head rang off flush to the manifold. The remaining 5 were buggers !! The heads themselves round after time and then required drilling off....
Once the manifolds were off and out of the way completely (manifolds are not threaded) I managed to shift 4 of the remainder with monkey pliers, penetrating oil and a lot of patience. The remaining 4 sheared off against the head trying to do the same thing. Tried using heat aswell but blow torch didn't offer enough heat really.
Between my dad and I this evening we have managed to drill out the remaining studs. Bit of luck was that we had a Tap just the right size and have cleared the threads out aswell. Only one stud left to do the same in the morning. The threads are intact and all things being equal we'll have no issue with the other one in the morning.
Once the final stud is out I will strip the valves out and replace the seals and regrind them. I may get the local engine centre to skim the head for me although it looks in great condition and will clean up alright anyway.
The decoke kit from Fords cam with all the gaskets and new headbolts. I have a large persuading bar that I used to undo 'em today which will put the final 90 degree torque on them when I do 'em up. I do need to buy some new manifold studs though...
The manifolds arrived in N London this morning and will be here on Monday. I want to make sure the apertures are the same size as the heads before i install them permanently and will get them machined out if they aren't. My intention is also to wrap them in thermotec before I put them back on aswell.
Dave,
What's valve 'lapping' ?? I will take the valves out and clean them up on the bench to remove any calcium and coking. Then I'll regrind them into the seats. They look all nicely coloured and therefor I don't foresee any issues with just cleaning the seats up a little.
I'll give you a further update tomorrow....
Cheers
Mark
quote:
Well?, you've had all afternoon.. how'd it go?
How are you cleaning up your valves/head, and have you got the bit's to re do the valve lapping?
While your heads are off Mark, check out the 3 core plugs on each side of the block. If they look rough/leaking, now's the ideal time to replace - they only cost about 70p each from Ford.
Also: in case you've not already done so, you'll need to get a new head bolt set - you cant reuse the old ones. I paid £20 for mine. The final torque up procedure requres them to be angle torqued 90 degrees, so you'll need the tool for this - saw one the other day (£10)
Cheers,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Friday 1st March 18:18
Cheers for the tip on the core plugs Dave, I'll be having a look at those tomorrow !
Sounds like you did well today Mark
I sent my heads away to be skimmed, but only as the engine showed signs of oil leakage, so if you don't have this you may not need this. If you can afford the time for the heads to be away, I'd say it's a good thing to do.
Valve lapping may well be another term for what you mentioned as "grinding the valves in"
You use the valve lapping tool which is basically a stick with a sucky pad on the end which you stick to the base of the valve without the valve being attached by the collet/valve spring, but still sitting in the head and valve guide. You apply valve grinding paste to the the two mateing surfaces of the valve and head, then rotate the valve/tool to grind the valve and head to create an air tight seal.
After typing this, I'm sure this is what you meant by valve grinding and I'm just wittering on now - sorry. I've just gone through all the same stuff as you are now on my S and am keen to help if I can.
Sorry if I'm telling you things you already know.
Oh, almost forgot to mention, the heads have two core plug each as well - might be worth replacing these as well while their off.
All the best,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Friday 1st March 22:53
I sent my heads away to be skimmed, but only as the engine showed signs of oil leakage, so if you don't have this you may not need this. If you can afford the time for the heads to be away, I'd say it's a good thing to do.
Valve lapping may well be another term for what you mentioned as "grinding the valves in"
You use the valve lapping tool which is basically a stick with a sucky pad on the end which you stick to the base of the valve without the valve being attached by the collet/valve spring, but still sitting in the head and valve guide. You apply valve grinding paste to the the two mateing surfaces of the valve and head, then rotate the valve/tool to grind the valve and head to create an air tight seal.
After typing this, I'm sure this is what you meant by valve grinding and I'm just wittering on now - sorry. I've just gone through all the same stuff as you are now on my S and am keen to help if I can.
Sorry if I'm telling you things you already know.
Oh, almost forgot to mention, the heads have two core plug each as well - might be worth replacing these as well while their off.
All the best,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Friday 1st March 22:53
Day 3.....
One head completely stripped and rebuilt. All valves have been re-ground or 'lapped' and the head cleaned up a bit.
I cheat while doing this Dave and use an electric drill from the other side of the head to provide the spin. You do have to be careful doing it this way but it does speed up the process and my stick and sucker are well knackered after doing several previous heads. Additionally the valves are concave and this doesn't help with the sucker at all.
I also checked the core plugs on the side of the engine and there is no sign of seapage from any of them. Great tip, thanks Dave. The core plugs in the head seem fine aswell and I intend on not upsetting anything I don't have to due the time pressure of having to have it all back together and running by Thursday.
The gaskets haven't marked the head at all, no ridging around the metal rings etc. You can see where theyv'e been, but I'm not going to have them skimmed as I haven't really got the time and with a straight edge I can't see any areas of concern at all.
The inlet valve seats had a tiny amount of slight pitting, but nowhere near what I thought an 85,000 mile engine would have.
Will strip and rebuild the other head tomorrow. Time now for a large G&T !!
Thanks for all the suggestions Dave H, I may not use them all but have used some and they are all very very welcome.
Cheers
Mark
One head completely stripped and rebuilt. All valves have been re-ground or 'lapped' and the head cleaned up a bit.
I cheat while doing this Dave and use an electric drill from the other side of the head to provide the spin. You do have to be careful doing it this way but it does speed up the process and my stick and sucker are well knackered after doing several previous heads. Additionally the valves are concave and this doesn't help with the sucker at all.
I also checked the core plugs on the side of the engine and there is no sign of seapage from any of them. Great tip, thanks Dave. The core plugs in the head seem fine aswell and I intend on not upsetting anything I don't have to due the time pressure of having to have it all back together and running by Thursday.
The gaskets haven't marked the head at all, no ridging around the metal rings etc. You can see where theyv'e been, but I'm not going to have them skimmed as I haven't really got the time and with a straight edge I can't see any areas of concern at all.
The inlet valve seats had a tiny amount of slight pitting, but nowhere near what I thought an 85,000 mile engine would have.
Will strip and rebuild the other head tomorrow. Time now for a large G&T !!
Thanks for all the suggestions Dave H, I may not use them all but have used some and they are all very very welcome.
Cheers
Mark
quote:
Mark,
what milage does your '89 S1.5 actually have?
With your info I may extrapolate when I have to do the same work. Meanwhile I will go Tibet for some time, to get myself mentally prepared...
Cheers Patrick
It's a bit of a "laugh" or other words to that effect. When I did mine I had the whole front chassis bare. All I originally wanted to change was the oil pump
Mark did say his S has done 85,000 miles.
Cheers,
Dave.
Patrick,
85,000 miles....
The work is not difficult, but it does depend on how you go about it. I have taken all the ancillary components off the inlet manifold and heads but still connected to the electrics etc and just peeled to the sides of the engine bay to reduce the reassembly time.
For the example, I have left the injectors on the fuel rail and removed them from the inlet manifold as one unit. They will go back the same way. Only thing disconnected was the wiring (remember to mark them up either from 1 to 6 going front to back or by cylinder number). The plenum has been removed leaving on the throttle body and aux air valve etc etc.
You need to think carefully about what work you are going to do and leave it at that. I understand exactly your scenario Dave, as I could quite happily keep going and have the whole lot out and on the bench etc etc.
Having just watched the Grand Prix (hilarious - best drivers in the world !!) and now the WSB preview show I'm running behind today, second head is stripped and valve are cleaned and now need grinding in. Back to it then.......
Cheers
Mark
85,000 miles....
The work is not difficult, but it does depend on how you go about it. I have taken all the ancillary components off the inlet manifold and heads but still connected to the electrics etc and just peeled to the sides of the engine bay to reduce the reassembly time.
For the example, I have left the injectors on the fuel rail and removed them from the inlet manifold as one unit. They will go back the same way. Only thing disconnected was the wiring (remember to mark them up either from 1 to 6 going front to back or by cylinder number). The plenum has been removed leaving on the throttle body and aux air valve etc etc.
You need to think carefully about what work you are going to do and leave it at that. I understand exactly your scenario Dave, as I could quite happily keep going and have the whole lot out and on the bench etc etc.
Having just watched the Grand Prix (hilarious - best drivers in the world !!) and now the WSB preview show I'm running behind today, second head is stripped and valve are cleaned and now need grinding in. Back to it then.......
Cheers
Mark
Patrick,
Mark is so right. As with most things, you could just keep going on with the referb engine work - but it's just a question of where do you stop?
I was lucky at the time, as the S wasnt needed as everyday transport, as at the time my "trusty" Rover was in action.So I replaced a lot more than most, and ended up painting the block/gearbox etc.
Right now the Rover (head gasket gone), and now my S (clutch master cylinder/starter motor gone) are out of action so am using my MG.
From what you've posted Mark, I think you're going about it the most sensible way. It's so easy to get dragged into going over the top with this.
I think the head re-furb is proberly the most important thing to do if you're going to to the extent that Mark has gone to Patrick, as I've found my S3 drives so much nicer since I've done the same.
Cheers,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Sunday 3rd March 19:41
Mark is so right. As with most things, you could just keep going on with the referb engine work - but it's just a question of where do you stop?
I was lucky at the time, as the S wasnt needed as everyday transport, as at the time my "trusty" Rover was in action.So I replaced a lot more than most, and ended up painting the block/gearbox etc.
Right now the Rover (head gasket gone), and now my S (clutch master cylinder/starter motor gone) are out of action so am using my MG.
From what you've posted Mark, I think you're going about it the most sensible way. It's so easy to get dragged into going over the top with this.
I think the head re-furb is proberly the most important thing to do if you're going to to the extent that Mark has gone to Patrick, as I've found my S3 drives so much nicer since I've done the same.
Cheers,
Dave.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Sunday 3rd March 19:41
Day 4....
After delays with GP's and a WSB preview to watch I did alright as it goes.
Stripped and rebuilt the remaining head. Reground all the valves etc etc.
Have also cleaned up the gasket surfaces on the inlet manifold ready for reassembly and will clean the block and pistons in the morning.
Need to try and cut the heads of 2 of the old engine bolts to use as guides and reatiners for the gaskets when I reassemble the heads onto the block so they don't go astray and misalign.
All going well so far ! Fingers crossed I will have it totally reassembled by tomorrow night. Then jut need to refit the manifolds and join up the exhaust etc etc and fire the beast up for it to cough and splutter and hopefuly spark into life...
Cheers
Mark
After delays with GP's and a WSB preview to watch I did alright as it goes.
Stripped and rebuilt the remaining head. Reground all the valves etc etc.
Have also cleaned up the gasket surfaces on the inlet manifold ready for reassembly and will clean the block and pistons in the morning.
Need to try and cut the heads of 2 of the old engine bolts to use as guides and reatiners for the gaskets when I reassemble the heads onto the block so they don't go astray and misalign.
All going well so far ! Fingers crossed I will have it totally reassembled by tomorrow night. Then jut need to refit the manifolds and join up the exhaust etc etc and fire the beast up for it to cough and splutter and hopefuly spark into life...
Cheers
Mark
Glad to hear its going well, seems funny we’re working like mad to get the cars ready to go into the garage for a service, sure that’s not the way it usually works.
I finished off the radiator on Saturday, lots of fun trying to clear the air out of the system, I managed to seal the old pipes with leak fix, I’ve fitted that adjustable fan switch and the 82-degree thermostat. I went along on Sunday and it seemed better at speed, I hit 125 at it stayed just below the 90 line.
I finished off the radiator on Saturday, lots of fun trying to clear the air out of the system, I managed to seal the old pipes with leak fix, I’ve fitted that adjustable fan switch and the 82-degree thermostat. I went along on Sunday and it seemed better at speed, I hit 125 at it stayed just below the 90 line.
Paul v,
A quick tip on getting air locks out of the cooling system, is fill it as much as possible, run the engine until it gets hot then switch off and leave overnight. In the morning you will be able to just top the system up with no problems since all the air goes to the highest point of the cooling system which is the swan neck filler!
A quick tip on getting air locks out of the cooling system, is fill it as much as possible, run the engine until it gets hot then switch off and leave overnight. In the morning you will be able to just top the system up with no problems since all the air goes to the highest point of the cooling system which is the swan neck filler!
Day 5....
Engine is just about reassembled now with the new exhaust manifolds in place.
Will be ready to fire it up about lunchtime tomorrow.
Tip for anyone doing similar is.....don't try and fit the manifolds with the downpipes connected. They are tricky enough already to line up once the heads are on the engine.
This was the only snag I hit today really as it has taken a long time to get the manifolds aligned enough to get the bolts in and tight.
The gaskets supplied are dry gaskets and you don't need to apply any pastes or sealants. What you may find though is that the flanges on the head have corroded around where the gasket sits. I took an emery paper drill to this to smooth them off as much as possible and this should do nicely.
I have decided to leave the Thermotec wrapping off for a couple of wees while the manifolds settle down into position and then I'll do 'em.
Also they look rather nicer than the mild steel ones and I'm going to enjoy 'em for a little while.
The damned ARB mounts from Superflex are for a 25mm ARB and therefor are too large for mine. I am ditching the whole Poly route now as my dad announced this evening after discussions of Alluminium brackets that they had some 4 by 2 at work and he could make us some out of that !!!!! Good work fella !!!
Paul V,
You did remember there is a bleeding valve on the top of the radiator on the nearside. Not sure if S's rad's have this but mine does !
Cheers
Mark
Engine is just about reassembled now with the new exhaust manifolds in place.
Will be ready to fire it up about lunchtime tomorrow.
Tip for anyone doing similar is.....don't try and fit the manifolds with the downpipes connected. They are tricky enough already to line up once the heads are on the engine.
This was the only snag I hit today really as it has taken a long time to get the manifolds aligned enough to get the bolts in and tight.
The gaskets supplied are dry gaskets and you don't need to apply any pastes or sealants. What you may find though is that the flanges on the head have corroded around where the gasket sits. I took an emery paper drill to this to smooth them off as much as possible and this should do nicely.
I have decided to leave the Thermotec wrapping off for a couple of wees while the manifolds settle down into position and then I'll do 'em.
Also they look rather nicer than the mild steel ones and I'm going to enjoy 'em for a little while.
The damned ARB mounts from Superflex are for a 25mm ARB and therefor are too large for mine. I am ditching the whole Poly route now as my dad announced this evening after discussions of Alluminium brackets that they had some 4 by 2 at work and he could make us some out of that !!!!! Good work fella !!!
Paul V,
You did remember there is a bleeding valve on the top of the radiator on the nearside. Not sure if S's rad's have this but mine does !
Cheers
Mark
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