I could't beat a civic...

[Orophin]

One of my acquaintances has a 95 Honda civic saloon 1.6L with 158 bhp, 120000miles, standard. We had a little 'race' up our duel carriageway and I was thinking I would have him easy, but good grief his Honda vtec, once it got into the high revs was pulling better than me! So we are equal in performance pretty much, but I reckon he would beat me in a proper drag race.

I don't understand. My car cannot be pushing 170bhp at they weigh 940kg vs the civics 158bhp at 1195kg. The difference in power to weight ratio is a large one. TVR S3 = 181bhp per ton. Civic = 132bhp per ton. That's just ridiculous right?

I'm thinking that my manifold down pipe is leaking, as I can hear it and there is some bandage stuff around it. Plus maybe I need a re-map. But to equal the civics power/weight ratio, my bhp will be between 120bhp-130bhp. Plus the civic is of a newer design and better gears and diff and maybe it is harder to drive as I've only had it 2 weeks. Can I please have your thoughts? Thanks

[mikee boy]

It's amazing how underpowered an S2 can be. I have an 85 BHP kit car that embarrasses my S2 below 60, however above that the S2 wins.

I datalogged my S2 once and recorded a 0-60 of 7.5 seconds, which isn't bad considering the factory reckoned it should be 6.8.

[Bonefish]

I thought the kerb weight was around 1050Kg ? and I'd also suspect that most have nearer 160bhp than 170bhp truth be known. No doubt those who have been on the rolling roads will have some figures here.

You'll have the beating of most on a twisty road

[Orophin]

Even at 160bhp and 1050kg, power to weight ratio is 152bhp/1000kg which is no walkover. But that's at the flywheel isn't it.

How much would a leaking manifold make on performance? Sorry, I know it ain't about performance, just a big smile. But when I know it should be faster, and could be tuned then I'll do anything to get her running her best. REMAP TIME

[Barkychoc]

Someone will soon want a V8

[mikee boy]

The rolling road remaps are quite pricey, but the results are supposed to be outstanding. It's worth finding somebody who has had it done and seing how much difference there is compared to yours.

Standard TVRs run a standard 'any fuel grade, anywhere in the world, best to be safe' map which limits their performance. It would be nice if we could produce a re-mapped ECU that removed some of this safety to improve performance, without the need to do all the rolling road diagnostics, and therefore keep the costs down.

My car is as standard as they came, so I'll do a decent datalog and post the results soon.

[neil240970]

I spoke to Austec about having my S2 remapped. Was a bit disappointed to learn that it only really benefits S3's/S3Cs. Apparently, having your S2 properly set up in terms of fuelling/timing etc. will yield big as big an improvement as the remap....

[page3]

My standard S3 was RR'd to be 169bhp and 213lb/ft. That was with the old (knackered) manifold though.

[greymrj]

It depends what you mean by winning! My road car will 'beat' my S1, just, on acceleration and on the bumpy potholed rural roads near me it would be quicker. But on Sunday it was a nice night and I went to an event 'hood down' in the TVR, I parked next to a mates AMG Merc, which is way faster in almost all circumstances. After the event a group of us were talking in the car park, guess which car they all fancied a go in (including John in the AMG)? Juvenile I know, but I felt I had 'won'! And the drive home, hood down, country lanes, almost dark......magic!

[V8S]

Barkychoc said:

Someone will soon want a V8

I don't know whether he was booting it or not (I definitely was), but a Seat Leon easily stayed ahead up a dual carriageway hill last night. My V8 sounds a lot faster than it is, which could be a good thing in the days of speed cameras, but it is humbling and, indeed, rather boring when you can't even get ahead of a mildly hot commuto-wagon.

I dream of having the 350bhp of trackcar but I will content myself for now by stopping under railway arches and revving it.

[Orophin]

That's annoying!!! I may just get my car on a rolling road and see what power is coming from her. If it's near enough up to speck then...time to save for a 500 Griff.

[Barkychoc]

Orophin said:

That's annoying!!! I may just get my car on a rolling road and see what power is coming from her. If it's near enough up to speck then...time to save for a 500 Griff.

You could always buy a civic....

[Orophin]

Barkychoc said:

Orophin said:

That's annoying!!! I may just get my car on a rolling road and see what power is coming from her. If it's near enough up to speck then...time to save for a 500 Griff.

You could always buy a civic....

That's exactly what other people are saying. If you want performance, handling and comfort, buy something else. But I must admit, I don't care anymore. Alot of people I've never met before I've seen having a good look at the car as I've come out of shops and saying 'aww it's gorgous' and kid's looking at it saying 'what is it?' and other people asking what it is and admiring it. I think it's the best money I've ever spent.

Still bit miffed about that damn civic. I don't like them. TVR all the way. Best car I've ever driven. Most fun I've had in a long time. Thanks for helping me get on to them. I can see me becoming a collector or them. Wish I had the money...

[jons_s3]

I wouldn't be too concerned about it. I think they mentioned something on Top Gear a few series ago about a Ferrari 246 having less power than the Megane 225...but which would you rather own?

In my view, the S is all about raw driving fun. I went on a track day in my Elise a while ago - there were plenty of people faster than me in Evos, RS4s, hot hatches etc., but were they having more fun? Probably not - rear wheel drive with no traction/stability/ABS is far more rewarding!

[GreenV8S]

Barkychoc said:

Someone will soon want a V8

Some time ago I found myself following a cute ickle Clio across Milton Keynes. He didn't pull away from me on the straights, but I wasn't gaining on him either. And mine isn't exactly a standard V8S. No matter how fast it is, there's always going to be somebody faster, and these days probably in something that looks quite mundane.

[dougc]

GreenV8S said:

No matter how fast it is, there's always going to be somebody faster, and these days probably in something that looks quite mundane.

Came across an Astra VXR on one of my favourite roads recently. Made good progress and parted ways with a wave. I'm sure he could have blown me into the weeds had he wanted to but who was having more fun? I'd vote that I was. The VXR may be a good car but fundamentally its an Astra.

Edited by dougc on Wednesday 16th July 10:11

[Chris71]

Slightly surprised if that's a standard Civic and a healthy S... I don't have any great trouble keeping up with the yuppies in their Audi TTs and so on round here. Also chased an S2000 a while back and, although he was clearly taking it more gently on the corners than I was, I could keep pace on the straights. About a week later I drove an S2000 myself and, as a result, I'm fairly confident he wasn't holding anything back either.

I think the real issue will be corners though. Admittedly, I'm running a mixed bag of tyres at the moment, but the loathesome base-spec Corsa hire car taht's currently replacing my daily driver still pulls much higher lateral G than the S does!

The thing is, you'd never bother trying to exceed the Vauxhalls limits - it just understeers with zero steering feel and wobbles around like a blamonge. The S has beautiful feedback, a very neutral stance and just enough power to turn that into mild oversteer. It's so much more satisfying.

I almost don't want to put decent tyres on for fear that it will rob some of the involvement.

[Orophin]

Chris71 said:

Slightly surprised if that's a standard Civic and a healthy S... I don't have any great trouble keeping up with the yuppies in their Audi TTs and so on round here. Also chased an S2000 a while back and, although he was clearly taking it more gently on the corners than I was, I could keep pace on the straights. About a week later I drove an S2000 myself and, as a result, I'm fairly confident he wasn't holding anything back either.

I think the real issue will be corners though. Admittedly, I'm running a mixed bag of tyres at the moment, but the loathesome base-spec Corsa hire car taht's currently replacing my daily driver still pulls much higher lateral G than the S does!

The thing is, you'd never bother trying to exceed the Vauxhalls limits - it just understeers with zero steering feel and wobbles around like a blamonge. The S has beautiful feedback, a very neutral stance and just enough power to turn that into mild oversteer. It's so much more satisfying.

I almost don't want to put decent tyres on for fear that it will rob some of the involvement.

I'm surprised nobody else shares your surprise. I swear the civics standard. Now I come to the vital question: what could be wrong? Shall I time the 0-60? My manifold is leaking slightly, how much power could I loose that way? Thanks for the replies so far. Maybe I should put the roof up and have a rematch. Damn Jap cars eh?

[clive f]

its not necessarily how fast you get there, its how you get there that matters, and in a tvr its always in style.

[Chris71]

Orophin said:

Chris71 said:

Slightly surprised if that's a standard Civic and a healthy S... I don't have any great trouble keeping up with the yuppies in their Audi TTs and so on round here. Also chased an S2000 a while back and, although he was clearly taking it more gently on the corners than I was, I could keep pace on the straights. About a week later I drove an S2000 myself and, as a result, I'm fairly confident he wasn't holding anything back either.

I think the real issue will be corners though. Admittedly, I'm running a mixed bag of tyres at the moment, but the loathesome base-spec Corsa hire car taht's currently replacing my daily driver still pulls much higher lateral G than the S does!

The thing is, you'd never bother trying to exceed the Vauxhalls limits - it just understeers with zero steering feel and wobbles around like a blamonge. The S has beautiful feedback, a very neutral stance and just enough power to turn that into mild oversteer. It's so much more satisfying.

I almost don't want to put decent tyres on for fear that it will rob some of the involvement.

I'm surprised nobody else shares your surprise. I swear the civics standard. Now I come to the vital question: what could be wrong? Shall I time the 0-60? My manifold is leaking slightly, how much power could I loose that way? Thanks for the replies so far. Maybe I should put the roof up and have a rematch. Damn Jap cars eh?

Not sure timing it or anything would be much use. Possibly get it on a rolling road if you're concerned? Does it seem to run reasonably well the rest of the time? I wouldn't have thought the roof will make a huge amount of difference unless you're doing the sort of speeds you won't want to repeat here.

Maybe the Civic is just quicker than we give it credit for, but mine seems to be able to keep up with things like TTs and 2.5 Boxsters, up to about 70mph at least.

S3s aren't huge quick by TVR (or other modern specialist sports car) standards, but you should be able to keep up with most slightly-sporty mass produced cars.

But, in the end, does it really bother you? If you think there's something actually wrong with the car, then it's worth fixing. Otherwise, bear in mind that (as standard) they're never quite as quick as the badge or the noise might suggest. Great fun though.

Although, I have to admit mine won't be out accelerating anything for a while either as it's currently in the garage with a start issue. Time for a new thread I feel...