Servicing - Ford v.s. TVR v.s. DIY
Discussion
I have an S2 (well 1.5) which has not been serviced for some time and with 38,000 on the clock could do with one.
a TVR specialist such as Fenhurst will charge over £300 for a service (see other posts), which I assume is on the same lines as most cars.. oil and filter change, sparkplugs, airfilter, valve adjustment.
I have a long established local Ford garage who maintain my Puma, and as the servicable parts of the S are the Ford Engine etc. I'm thinking that it would be more cost efficient to have them service the car (and convenient). It will cost me more like £100-£150 and they are used to dealing with that engine anyway, so is this going to be detrimental to my Serice History, I don't think so but I'd like some opinions.
My other concern is that there may be some "characteristics" of the TVR setup of the engine that a seasoned Ford mechanic might not know about and that there may be some major thing I haven't thought of..
DIY is what I'm used to, but I think if I was a future buyer of an S I would want to see something on paper rather than ust be told by the seller that its been cherished like a member of the family.. honest. (not that I'm thinking of selling)
(Also, that Oil filter looks like a right git to get off
)
Any thoughts all.
Cheers
Matt.
a TVR specialist such as Fenhurst will charge over £300 for a service (see other posts), which I assume is on the same lines as most cars.. oil and filter change, sparkplugs, airfilter, valve adjustment.
I have a long established local Ford garage who maintain my Puma, and as the servicable parts of the S are the Ford Engine etc. I'm thinking that it would be more cost efficient to have them service the car (and convenient). It will cost me more like £100-£150 and they are used to dealing with that engine anyway, so is this going to be detrimental to my Serice History, I don't think so but I'd like some opinions.
My other concern is that there may be some "characteristics" of the TVR setup of the engine that a seasoned Ford mechanic might not know about and that there may be some major thing I haven't thought of..
DIY is what I'm used to, but I think if I was a future buyer of an S I would want to see something on paper rather than ust be told by the seller that its been cherished like a member of the family.. honest. (not that I'm thinking of selling)
(Also, that Oil filter looks like a right git to get off
) Any thoughts all.
Cheers
Matt.
Engine servicing is very easy on the 2.9s. My guess is that the tvr will give all the bits the once over that the ford garage will not bother with such as brakes, checking the chassis and all the other bits that may cause problems (or they might not). If you haven't got a fsh and you are vaguely handy with spanners then you can do pretty much all of it for yourself with the aid of the bible.
--
Mark
--
Mark
Have Bible, Have spanners, have ability, but also have got basically fsh.. so am in two minds. As a future buyer wouldn't you want to see a stamp though....???
P.S. this isn't just your bog standard "monkeys with spanners" ford dealer I've got in mind, it is a family firm with a background in ford motorsport who happen to be a Ford maindealer..
oooo.. can't decide..
Matt
P.S. this isn't just your bog standard "monkeys with spanners" ford dealer I've got in mind, it is a family firm with a background in ford motorsport who happen to be a Ford maindealer..
oooo.. can't decide..
Matt
I do all my own sewrvicing as the car came with a large amount of history already and needed some tlc, that I haven't found any garage capable of delivering.
The engine is very easy to work on. I've only gone as far as taking the inlet amanifold off and all associated parts. I wouldn't think twice about taking the whole top off the engine etc etc
If you have a family run Ford knowledgable garage around the corner who you have a good relationship with then it is worth developing that further. Many garages like this welcome the opportunity to work on something a little different from time to time, until they become a pain of course, which TVR's sometimes do.
As for the Oil filter the way to remove ......get big screw driver and stab and turn, stab and turn, stab and turn. Then undo...messy but effective. I know of at least 3 different makes of filter that will fit in the gap, some better than others. It is an awkward job, especially as it's normally hot as you run the engine prior to changing the oil to get all crud out !!!
f you do it yourself, at least you know exactly what's going on with your car...
The engine is very easy to work on. I've only gone as far as taking the inlet amanifold off and all associated parts. I wouldn't think twice about taking the whole top off the engine etc etc
If you have a family run Ford knowledgable garage around the corner who you have a good relationship with then it is worth developing that further. Many garages like this welcome the opportunity to work on something a little different from time to time, until they become a pain of course, which TVR's sometimes do.
As for the Oil filter the way to remove ......get big screw driver and stab and turn, stab and turn, stab and turn. Then undo...messy but effective. I know of at least 3 different makes of filter that will fit in the gap, some better than others. It is an awkward job, especially as it's normally hot as you run the engine prior to changing the oil to get all crud out !!!
f you do it yourself, at least you know exactly what's going on with your car...
quote:
DIY is what I'm used to, but I think if I was a future buyer of an S I would want to see something on paper rather than ust be told by the seller that its been cherished like a member of the family.. honest. (not that I'm thinking of selling)
Cheers
Matt.
I personally do not agree, but unfortunately that's not what counts...
Before i bought my S3C, I had a look at many porker 3.2 targa, mainly with a so called history. The last one I saw came even with a brilliant history (always serviced at porsche). But this did not help, that the clutch was at the end and handling was not brilliant, at least less good than the older porsche i drove 15min before.
After so many porsche's I was fed up and after trying an Evante, I ended finally up with my S3C.
She's got a history, not a perfect one, but the last service was again made at a TRV Garage and I have to say, that it the condition was everything but brilliant.
(Knackerd steering, column bearing, CV joints, oil pressure sender, fog light and body broken behind door locker plate)
I am sure that after winter time the car will be in a better condition, than before, without any service.
I think the most important is, that:
a) you (the owner) need a "close relationship" to your tvr, more than with a let's say a Micra. You need to understand, what needs to be done.
b) if you cannot DIY, then you need to have confidence into a good mechanic (I know, easy said)
To me "good history" is not only paperwork. The potential buyer of a car needs to have a close look to the car, to have an extensive drive and talk to the owner. This tells more than a service book filled with stamps of Garages, that you might not even know. It is not unpossible to find out, whether a car has really been cherished or not.
Cheers
Patrick
If your going to use a TVR dealer only use one from good recomedation.
My car has wedges of history with it and a huge wedge of money spent by previous owners at a dealer. In my 5 months of owning I've had the whole engine out/apart and am amazed at some of the shoddy work performed by said dealer.
Things like:
A history of overheating and head gaskets repeatedly failing - they never thought to get the heads skimmed.
The crank was reground at 31k, I suspect due to poor oil delivery, they never replaced the oil pump - I did.
Mainfold bolt threads on the heads bodge welded when they needed helicoiling.
And over use of silicon gasket sealer everywhere.
I could go on, but as said before, if your're handy with a spanner, have the bible, you should be ok.
My car has wedges of history with it and a huge wedge of money spent by previous owners at a dealer. In my 5 months of owning I've had the whole engine out/apart and am amazed at some of the shoddy work performed by said dealer.
Things like:
A history of overheating and head gaskets repeatedly failing - they never thought to get the heads skimmed.
The crank was reground at 31k, I suspect due to poor oil delivery, they never replaced the oil pump - I did.
Mainfold bolt threads on the heads bodge welded when they needed helicoiling.
And over use of silicon gasket sealer everywhere.
I could go on, but as said before, if your're handy with a spanner, have the bible, you should be ok.
I whole heartedly concur with Patrick's comments about DIY servicing.
In your situation, I doubt very much if the eventual selling price of your S will be significantly improved by a TVR dealer stamp in the service book compared with a Ford dealer stamp. So save your money.
Do all the non Ford dealer elements of the service yourself, or write a brief specification for your local Ford garage to follow and ask them to quote.
In your situation, I doubt very much if the eventual selling price of your S will be significantly improved by a TVR dealer stamp in the service book compared with a Ford dealer stamp. So save your money.
Do all the non Ford dealer elements of the service yourself, or write a brief specification for your local Ford garage to follow and ask them to quote.
I took my S2 (a long time ago!) to a decent Ford dealer and all they did was told me a load of old rubbish!.My S2 came with a full TVRSH and you want to see some of the things they did to that (bloody awful!) but I have long since rectified that.I as many of you probably know do servicing and have a stamp if that is what you are after, I can also tell you that the best service I do is quite expensive (mail me for details if interested) but a LOT of new components are fitted and a lot more components checked than a dealer does (I know this for a fact).Not trying to drum up work (well... 
) just thought I would mention it
Cheers
LeeBee (leaving the building!)
) just thought I would mention it Cheers
LeeBee (leaving the building!)
Sorry chaps have to disagree with diy servicing not effecting the resale value's. If you feel you are compitent enough to look after the car yourselfs and you will be keeping the car for ever then fine. But if you ever in tend to sell it you will find it very difficult and value a lot less I would not recomend any body to buy say an S3 for any more than 4/5k if it had no history. I see what you are saying and some dealers are ripping you off but if you find a good dealer or specailist like my self if makes the world of difference. If I serviced say an elise to he best of my ability's a top lotus guy would pick wholes in my work in five mins, and i've been working on TVR';s since S's were on the production line!! So what chance has the diy mechanic doing a good job sorry it's not going to happen. you may well do as good a job as a poor delear no prob's but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Noel V8
Noel V8
I do a mixture. The car requires two services a year. I will use LeeBee to do the main one when it is rolled out of the garage after the lay up. Prior to the lay up I use a local garage, a guy who works extensively on his absolute perfect 2.8i capri. (I have an S1). He charged me £215 and I got a new oil and air filter, new plugs, two rear brake cyclinders, and the fluid renewed, new fluid and antifreeze and a full tune, new fuel filter and a general check of all the important bits of the car.
I also change the oil myself between once during the summer, just for good measure. All this costs around 500 a year. If I had the time I would do the lay up service myself.
One good service a year is good enough - I intend to use leebee for the main one - he does offer a much more extensive package and new parts for the same price broadly as the TVR places
I also change the oil myself between once during the summer, just for good measure. All this costs around 500 a year. If I had the time I would do the lay up service myself.
One good service a year is good enough - I intend to use leebee for the main one - he does offer a much more extensive package and new parts for the same price broadly as the TVR places
Noel
I don't think anyone is taring all garages and mechanics with the same brush. However a lot of garages and most main dealers (not just TVR ones) charge £50+ an hour, and 90% of the work being carried out by a young lad with as much mechanical knowledge as a chimpanzee.
I have only heard good things about you, we did meet on the Isle of Man. You could service my car if you don't mind a round trip of 800 miles
Mark
I don't think anyone is taring all garages and mechanics with the same brush. However a lot of garages and most main dealers (not just TVR ones) charge £50+ an hour, and 90% of the work being carried out by a young lad with as much mechanical knowledge as a chimpanzee.
I have only heard good things about you, we did meet on the Isle of Man. You could service my car if you don't mind a round trip of 800 miles
Mark
As someone who's currently looking at cars I agree that the thought of a FTVRSH initially seems attractive. However, having done a fair bit of research and monitoring lots of the PH threads I will now make my final decision on the overall condition of the car.
From what I have seen so far the well sorted cars that have, in their later years, respected independent specialist servicing seem to offer the best option. (IMHO)
I don't think that if you said to me 'I do all of my own servicing' I'd be staying long at your doorstep, unless you were virtually giving it away.
From what I have seen so far the well sorted cars that have, in their later years, respected independent specialist servicing seem to offer the best option. (IMHO)
I don't think that if you said to me 'I do all of my own servicing' I'd be staying long at your doorstep, unless you were virtually giving it away.
The V6 S series is fairly straightforward for basic servicing, however a TVR dealer will (should) check a number of TVR specific points during a service that a good Ford mechanic will not know about - this could catch you out longer term.
I also think that a full service history (every 6,000 miles) is important, not bothered about every six months but I would want one a year if I was looking.
Whilst many of us could do a good job ourselves (yes, better than some dealers might) the person buying the car has no way of knowing if we're cowboys or not.
To me a full service history is crucial in buying a TVR, both mine came with full histories, the S3 had some non-TVR stamps but the last two were a specialist and the V8S is all TVR except the last one which is David Gerald.
However I would tend to agree that a recognised specialist is better than a main dealer for S series servicing as in my experience they take better care and know more about the cars than the herberts who are used to later models.
A Ford dealer history is preferable to a DIY history, however a mate of mine who is ex Ford and now owns his own garage was wary of servicing my S3 as he didn't know the perculiarities of TVRs - his honest suggestion to me was to use a specialist.
Cheers,
JSG.
I also think that a full service history (every 6,000 miles) is important, not bothered about every six months but I would want one a year if I was looking.
Whilst many of us could do a good job ourselves (yes, better than some dealers might) the person buying the car has no way of knowing if we're cowboys or not.
To me a full service history is crucial in buying a TVR, both mine came with full histories, the S3 had some non-TVR stamps but the last two were a specialist and the V8S is all TVR except the last one which is David Gerald.
However I would tend to agree that a recognised specialist is better than a main dealer for S series servicing as in my experience they take better care and know more about the cars than the herberts who are used to later models.
A Ford dealer history is preferable to a DIY history, however a mate of mine who is ex Ford and now owns his own garage was wary of servicing my S3 as he didn't know the perculiarities of TVRs - his honest suggestion to me was to use a specialist.
Cheers,
JSG.
My 1/60th of a Euro...
Buying a DIY serviced car is like Russian Roulette as you have no idea how good the guy is. In my experience, usually means the car is a bag of nails. Maybe slightly better than one serviced at a Halfords Service Centre.
Main dealer:
Depends on the dealer but the newer ones don't necessarily have the experience to understand the older cars.
TVR specialist:
Usually knows the cars like the back of their hands and see a lot of them which means that they will have the experience and knowledge to know what you look for when servicing these cars and any problems caused by the age which no one could foresee. The engine bit by and large is just a small part of the service. This is why a Ford service is not much good as the engine may be looked after but the rest of the car and any potential problems will be missed because they don't know the cars. Ford servicing in the history starts raising "walk away" in my book.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Buying a DIY serviced car is like Russian Roulette as you have no idea how good the guy is. In my experience, usually means the car is a bag of nails. Maybe slightly better than one serviced at a Halfords Service Centre.
Main dealer:
Depends on the dealer but the newer ones don't necessarily have the experience to understand the older cars.
TVR specialist:
Usually knows the cars like the back of their hands and see a lot of them which means that they will have the experience and knowledge to know what you look for when servicing these cars and any problems caused by the age which no one could foresee. The engine bit by and large is just a small part of the service. This is why a Ford service is not much good as the engine may be looked after but the rest of the car and any potential problems will be missed because they don't know the cars. Ford servicing in the history starts raising "walk away" in my book.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
TVR specialist:
Usually knows the cars like the back of their hands and see a lot of them which means that they will have the experience and knowledge to know what you look for when servicing these cars and any problems caused by the age which no one could foresee. The engine bit by and large is just a small part of the service. This is why a Ford service is not much good as the engine may be looked after but the rest of the car and any potential problems will be missed because they don't know the cars. Ford servicing in the history starts raising "walk away" in my book.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I always go ack to the same problem wioth my car that took a long while to sort out. Took it to a main dealer and ended taking the inlet manifold out, unnecessarily upon advice. Problem still not resolved take it to a 'TVR Specialist' who advises the same thing. Off I go again and do the whole job again thinking I'm mechanically inept and spending a lot more money on other bits to compliment the work.
Still doesn't solve problem. Refer back to 'TVR Specialist', who is now lost completely and does not seem interested at all in trying to find the fault.
Spend next day in garage with father and find fault in early afternoon, resolved next day !
If I had spent out for the work from both of them I would have been at £750 to £1000 out of pocket rather than £200 that I was.
I am lucky in that I have a parent who was massive amounts of experience and is a fully qualified mechanic and general know it all with cars. I have not found a garage yet that takes the additional time and care with my car that I do. I don't object on paying for things they find that are additionally wrong over and above what it went in there for.
I had a 'TVR Specialist' adjust the tappets for me as I have no where work on the car at the moment. Mentioned to them that there was a bit of an oil leak at the back of the rocker cover that was fairly significant. They adjust tappets, put cover back. Mention oil leak to them, response, everythings fine ! Drive up road and check and everything isn't fine. Speak to them about it and get response - must be the inlet manifold work you did. At which point I blew a gasket, the car went back in for something else and I explained exactly what the problem was and they opened it and agreed they'd done it wromng and amended it for free.
I shouldn't have to keep telling the so called specialist what the problems are. They are the specialist !!!
I may have just been unlucky, but I really am very very sceptical about the whole 'specialist' servicing available and thoroughly dissillusioned with the main dealers.
When you buy an S, you are looking for history and that is a selling point. But you should be reading up on what to look for and then look for it ! That will tell you whether the car has been maintained properly.
Once cars get to the age of some of ours servicing costs do not relate to the overall value of the car and judging by some of the experiences of friends getting their cars back with brake fluid all over the bulkhead etc etc after servicing I question the necessity.
Ranting madness over, it must be Friday. I've oragnised a 1000+ tonnes of beer into Londoin this week and obviously need to partake of some of it myself !!!!!
Cheers
Mark
quote:
My 1/60th of a Euro...
Buying a DIY serviced car is like Russian Roulette as you have no idea how good the guy is.
M
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
but not if you've informed yourself in the bible prior testing the car and if the seller did his DIY according bible instructions!!!
I fully agree with Mark johno's reply
cheers patrick
quote:
Buying a DIY serviced car is like Russian Roulette as you have no idea how good the guy is.
This is exactly what I meant.
quote:
but not if you've informed yourself in the bible prior testing the car and if the seller did his DIY according bible instructions!!!
True, but the point Steve made is - you can't be sure if he/she did follow instructions, hence Russian Roulette.
I also agree with Mark's comments, but feel this is down to the same issue as main dealers - there will be good and less good independants. My advice is use an independant that is recomended and don't cut corners on mtce / servicing.
If Mark intends keeping his car, then no problem. If he sells to someone on PistonHeads who has disccused the issues with him then he may sell easily - but I still maintain a recognised history is important when buying a second hand TVR.
Cheers,
JSG.
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