Battery problem (and therefore question)

[kinky]

Had a problem this morning in that the S1.5 would not start. Never ever had a problem up to now (used on a daily basis). So I disconnected the (newly fitted by previous owner) battery, plugged in my (old) battery charger and left it for a while. Came back to discover that the charger was draining the battery not charging it.

So, I reconnected everything with the intention of rolling the car into the driveway so that the AA could come and jump start it, and lo & behld, she started first time, as if there was never a problem ! I really don't know what's caused it.

Anyhow, reading thru Steves bible this morning he mentions that Henley and Tower have advanced battery chargers which are permanently connected, and simply need plugging in from time to time.

Are these any good? Anyone use them? Expensive? Worth it? Should I simply upgrade the battery (reluctant)? Are there other alternatives?

Answers on a postcard to ....

[johno]

My S 1.5 has done this before twice. The first time came out to the car and it jsut wouldn't start and had to leave it and catch a taxi to work.

Came back to it that evening and it started straight away.

The other evening pulled up at the garage to fill up. Came back to car and it wouln't start. Rolled it out of the way and tried again and off it went.

The first time I cleaned and greased all the earthing points and have only had this recent issue since, which I believe was due to the battery being absolutely shagged after a lot of overuse without taking care to keep an eye on charging levels.

I would carefully check the earth's and get the condition of the battery checked before spending money out on a charging set up. I have had the same battery for the last 2 yrs and it has lasted through all this !!

I have been careful in the current conditions of weather to make sure I give the battery sufficient time without too much load to keep it topped up properly. The lights are a major drain, but the one that really kills it is the heater fan.

Mine is my everyday car aswell.

Cheers

Mark

[Roy C]

I keep my S2 on an AirFlow battery conditioner to keep it fully charged. You will need (unlike me ) to make sure the electrolyte level is maintained.

I have also experienced the problem of total loss of electrical power which later returns just as mysteriously. This happened about 3 times in 10 years.

The classic fix for these problems: Try tapping the battery terminals or disconnect it, clean the terminals and reconnect (a sort of crude Ctrl-Alt-Delete ).

[GreenV8s]

quote:
I keep my S2 on an AirFlow battery conditioner to keep it fully charged. You will need (unlike me http://nlw2k4.nildram.co.uk:11914/include/images/confused.gif[/pic]

The classic fix for these problems: Try tapping the battery terminals [pic]http://nlw2k4.nildram.co.uk:11914/include/images/smash.gif[/pic] or disconnect it, clean the terminals and reconnect (a sort of crude Ctrl-Alt-Delete [pic]http://nlw2k4.nildram.co.uk:11914/include/images/wobble.gif">).

I once had a battery with a broken post which would die/come back to life when you bashed it. Driving along you would never notice because the car would keep running off the alternator, but sometimes when it stopped it would need a bash to get it going again. Worth checking that the electrics are all dead (check the lights) to confirm the battery actually is flat. Also had problems with the connector to the ignition switch resulting in intermittant power loss, just enough to stop the starter engaging. Result is similar to a flat battery.

Cheers,

Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

[JSG]

Kinky,

The devices that you can leave connected 'all the time' are Battery Conditioners rather than chargers. These will maintain the charge of the battery whilst the car is stored / parked overnight and compensate for any drain due to alarm, clock, stereo etc. They will not overcharge the battery and some come with a connector cable that you wire into the battery terminals and leave in place so that reconnecting is a simple plug in affair. This is useful if the battery is in the boot or footwell. The downside to these devices is that they will not usually recharge a flat battery - so you need a charger if the battery does go flat.

I have a charger that I used for the S3 from Halfords that combined the two (alledgedly) so it would charge and then condition. I have now bought a conditioner as the V8S battery is in the boot which will not open with a flat battery ! I got mine from the Carcoon people as it was on offer (it also powers their plastic bubble should I ever get one).

Cheers,
JSG.

[LeeBee]

quote: (it also powers their plastic bubble should I ever get one).

I have just bought a Carcoon bubble and it's a fantastic piece of kit, I bought the outdoor version (can be used indoors too unlike the indoor only version) which is double skinned and has rubberised aluminium on the outside, it looks like the Goodyear airship!, the battery conditioner comes with this which is handy

Cheers

LeeBee

[JSG]

Lee,

I saw them on Carcoons stand at Novembers Claasic and Sportscar show. They looked v good, I might have been tempted but I use my S too regularly at the moment as they said it takes a few days for the system to get the moisture out of the air - they felt that the car needed to be in it a month or two at a time to get any benefit.

Maybe when I get another S (Cosworth racer maybe) I may get one.

Cheers,
JSG.

[kinky]

Quick update on the battery issue ....

After work last night the car started first time (but took about 2 seconds to fire). All the way home (approx 40 mins) the alternator/battery light was on, but very very faint - a quick glance and you would not notice it - this was with the headlights on and nothing else (no heater, stereo or dash lights). When I turned the indicators on the light became more intense, but even then it was still very very faint.

The voltmeter reading sat at 11, just above the red.

This morning .... started first time (this time a 3 second delay) and again with nothing on but the headlights there was no faint battery light, AND the voltmeter sat at 12+ - which would all appear to be good news.

So hopefully all will be back to normal now.

As for the battery conditioners/rechargers - thank you all for your responses - I think I'll just leave it for the moment. General opinion appears to say just knock it and it should be ok, and occurs only once in a blue moon.

Fortunately I've now got full time access to a Lancia, so I'm now not 100% dependant on the S1.25 (in case it happens again).

Clearly if it does happen again soon, then I WILL have to invest in the battery charger/conditioner.

Fingers crossed, and thank you all.

Edited by kinky on Wednesday 9th January 10:55

[martvr]

I suspect that your problem may not have gone away forever.

In a correctly functioning system, the alternator will be regulated to supply at about 13.5 volts or thereabouts and the battery will also be at that same level. This will drop temporarily after taking a heavy load like prolonged starting until the alternator recharges the battery back to 13.5v again.

The ignition light is effectively connected between the alternator on one side and the battery on the other so that any voltage difference between the two will cause it to light, i.e. it could be due to low volts on the alternator side or low volts on the battery side. If it is a complete failure, e.g. fan belt snapped then the alternator output drops to zero so full battery volts are available to light the bulb to max intensity.

Your problem indicates that you have a varying but relatively low difference in volts between the two sides that is made worse the higher the load on the system i.e. lights, fan, .... This is typical of a bad connection somewhere because as the load goes up, more volts are lost across the resistance of the bad connection which effectively reduces the level remaining.

The reason for sometimes being worse than others is down to the variation of the behaviour of the bad connection. When you find it, you will see that if you disturb it physically you can influence its behaviour.

The bad connection could be anywhere unfortunately but is probably to be found on relatively large cross section cabling somewhere. It could be internal to the battery as has been suggested and I would start there first, by taking it to a garage and asking them to discharge test it, this will check it's ability to maintain voltage whilst being asked to supply a heavy load. It could be the battery terminal connections either loose or corroded, also good place to look. Finally and most difficult is anywhere else, which may also involve earthing connections - try starting the car in the pitch dark whilst looking for sparks and listening for the sound of sparking.

Good luck with the hunt and let us know how you get on.

[M@H]

quote:

I have a charger that I used for the S3 from Halfords that combined the two (alledgedly) so it would charge and then condition. I have now bought a conditioner as the V8S battery is in the boot which will not open with a flat battery !

Buyers beware, I learned the hard way (by standing at the counter saying "this don't work") that the Halfords Charger/conditioner will not charge a flat battery as you need about 3-4 Volts in the Battery to move the plates together in the Charger. No good when you want to get your car moving having not been started for seven months..

Cheers
Matt.

[GreenV8s]

quote: All the way home (approx 40 mins) the alternator/battery light was on, but very very faint - a quick glance and you would not notice it - this was with the headlights on and nothing else (no heater, stereo or dash lights). When I turned the indicators on the light became more intense, but even then it was still very very faint.

The voltmeter reading sat at 11, just above the red.

This morning .... started first time (this time a 3 second delay) and again with nothing on but the headlights there was no faint battery light, AND the voltmeter sat at 12+ - which would all appear to be good news.

These are the exact symptoms of a poor connection to the ignition - the standard (Ford) 4-way spade connector block isn't really up to the currents that TVR put through it. You can dismantle the connection block and clean & recrimp the sockets as a temporary fix, but for a permanent fix you really need to get rid of that connector. My advice is bypass it completely and solder the corresponding wires directly to each other. If you do this be careful because some of the terminals are permanently live and connected to the battery with high current wires, if you short them out you will certainly get to know about it. Best disconnect the battery first to be on the safe side.

Cheers,

Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

[kinky]

Final note on this - I promise ....

I had the same problem again this morning. However, upon [very quick] investigation I suspect that it's the immobilser that's causing the problem, as I know for a fact the battery is fully charged.

I discovered a partly-frayed wire which may be the cause.

So this weekend, as well as correcting this (and hoping it's the problem) I'll take Peters advice (below)and action as necessary.

Thank you all again, for help and pointers.

Edited by kinky on Friday 11th January 10:52