To S or to S2..that is the question
Discussion
Mike,
With the V6 S series you are better off going on condition rather than age. the later models had various spec upgrades but some of the later S2 and S3 models will not have been so well looked after as an early S.
Aside from the usual mechanical checks good signs are a full service history (no nec main dealer), repainted / waxoyled chassis and dry carpets. Evidence (receipts etc) of replacement exhausts, steering rack and so on is also good news.
Whilst all 2.9 engines run ok on unleaded, I believe the 2.8 has hardened valve seats and can run unleaded but may need the timing adjusted (although I guess most will have had this done by now).
Look at a few and drive them - you will be able to tell which one feels right. They can be found for very reasonable money these days and make a great useable car. I've just sold my S3C to make way for the ultimate TVR ever made but I know I'll miss it.
Good luck.
With the V6 S series you are better off going on condition rather than age. the later models had various spec upgrades but some of the later S2 and S3 models will not have been so well looked after as an early S.
Aside from the usual mechanical checks good signs are a full service history (no nec main dealer), repainted / waxoyled chassis and dry carpets. Evidence (receipts etc) of replacement exhausts, steering rack and so on is also good news.
Whilst all 2.9 engines run ok on unleaded, I believe the 2.8 has hardened valve seats and can run unleaded but may need the timing adjusted (although I guess most will have had this done by now).
Look at a few and drive them - you will be able to tell which one feels right. They can be found for very reasonable money these days and make a great useable car. I've just sold my S3C to make way for the ultimate TVR ever made but I know I'll miss it.
Good luck.
Mark,
I'm fairly certain that the 2.8 engine has hardened valve seats and only needs the timing retarded from 12 deg BTDC to 9 deg BTDC for premium unleaded. Anyone else please confirm of deny this.
I would agree that the 2.9 engine is generally better though, and currently a S2 / S3 should be within your budget Mike.
Cheers,
JSG.
Edited by JSG on Tuesday 27th November 07:39
I'm fairly certain that the 2.8 engine has hardened valve seats and only needs the timing retarded from 12 deg BTDC to 9 deg BTDC for premium unleaded. Anyone else please confirm of deny this.
I would agree that the 2.9 engine is generally better though, and currently a S2 / S3 should be within your budget Mike.
Cheers,
JSG.
Edited by JSG on Tuesday 27th November 07:39
I confess to owning an S1. At some stage in it's life the heads were REPLACED to make it suitable for unleaded. I think that some 2.8 heads may be OK - there's a coded letter on the casting to show if they are OK for unleaded on Pinto engines, whether or not the same scheme applies to 2.8 I'm not sure. Probably safer to assume that the heads are not OK for unleaded unless they have been replaced / updated. By the way, the 2.8 engine does have an electronic injection system (same as the 2.8 Capri). Running the 2.8. has been interesting - easy to get a water pump from the motor factors for around 16 quid, but impossible to get a thermostat cover from anywhere(!) Still, the old thermostat cover is not too badly corroded...I've never driven an S2, but I suspect the comments in Steve Heaths book apply - the 2.8 being a less relaxed drive than the 2.9 due to lower torque - mind you it don't half go! There's skinless custard puddings all over Berkshire !! I strongly recommend Steve's book by the way - probably worth buying and studying before you take the plunge (this is an unsolicited testimonial to the book)
Edited by muley on Tuesday 27th November 08:39
Edited by muley on Tuesday 27th November 08:39
Message for Muley
Scrap yards are a great place to pick up engine items difficult to find new. There are always plenty of Sierra's and Granada'a from which bits can be removed.You should have no problem finding a thermostat housing in good condition. Try Yellow Pages for your nearest.
There is a good one near me that has a number of scrapped 2.8 Ford engined cars if you are still having a problem.
Scrap yards are a great place to pick up engine items difficult to find new. There are always plenty of Sierra's and Granada'a from which bits can be removed.You should have no problem finding a thermostat housing in good condition. Try Yellow Pages for your nearest.
There is a good one near me that has a number of scrapped 2.8 Ford engined cars if you are still having a problem.
By the way, the 2.8 engine does have an electronic injection system (same as the 2.8 Capri).
The system is actually mechnical. The electronic black box is for the ignition system only. The 2.9 moved over to a completely electronic fuel injection.
Thanks for the book comment.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
The system is actually mechnical. The electronic black box is for the ignition system only. The 2.9 moved over to a completely electronic fuel injection.
Thanks for the book comment.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
tvrmark. I'm not paid a bean to mention Steve's book - I must re-iterate it was an unsolicited remark.
peterc. Thanks for the tip on breakers for the thermostat cover - Maybe I'll have a look around next spring. Chances are that any 10 year old item will look like mine !! I was really making the point that spares might be more of an issue for the S1 compared to the S2.
Edited by muley on Friday 30th November 13:02
peterc. Thanks for the tip on breakers for the thermostat cover - Maybe I'll have a look around next spring. Chances are that any 10 year old item will look like mine !! I was really making the point that spares might be more of an issue for the S1 compared to the S2.
Edited by muley on Friday 30th November 13:02
quote:
Steve how much are you paying Muley to plug your book.
The same as I pay everyone else... NOTHING! The scrapyard tip is a good one. I periodically scavenge the local scrappy for things for the 520. If I find something, I get it and store it. AS for S1 vs s2 spares... There is little to choose between them. Some of the odder things are now being remanufactured now: Steve Reid is doing fuel tanks, Tower View have just done stainless versions of the metal cooling pipes and so on. The real problem are the small things like the digital clock and some interior parts. The heater control is another hard to get item as well.
Steve
Sorry to sound really boring, but surely this issue is "to 2.8 or 2.9" as I happily run my S1 with its original 2.9 engine.
The only thing I'd say is that you get a better breathing engine that produces a little more power with the 2.9 and as it is officially designed to run on unleaded, if you (god forbid (not me)) ever wanted to sell the car, its re-sale value would be higher and you don't have to try and convince someone that its OK 'cos your mate/local garage modified x y and z slightly, and "my insurance company don't mind/don't know".
The only thing I'd say is that you get a better breathing engine that produces a little more power with the 2.9 and as it is officially designed to run on unleaded, if you (god forbid (not me)) ever wanted to sell the car, its re-sale value would be higher and you don't have to try and convince someone that its OK 'cos your mate/local garage modified x y and z slightly, and "my insurance company don't mind/don't know".
Indeedy.. According to TVR (and they should know) the S2 was a re-branding of the S once the modifications made them discernably different, i.e. Electric Windows, OZ wheels, chassis mod. at the back, and the bit of chrome on the front bumper. I believe there are about 40 S1's with the 2.9 (but without the other bits to make them an S2) which do get called 1.5 's but that doesn't exist as an actual model number acording to TVR, DVLA etc.
?? Quote "Early S2 still having S1 bodies.. " ??
BTW. I didn't think there was a difference between the S1 and S2 bodies, I thought the dimension changes happened between S2 and S3..? am I wrong?
?? Quote "Early S2 still having S1 bodies.. " ??
BTW. I didn't think there was a difference between the S1 and S2 bodies, I thought the dimension changes happened between S2 and S3..? am I wrong?
quote:
I think the s2 had larger door openings. While im here has anyone put a 2.9 into a s1 2.8? Im currently rebuilding my s and the engine is going to be replaced/reconditioned.
I think thats the S3: Quote Pistonheads Model guide "The doors on the S3 were lengthened by four inches to improve access."
Putting a 2.9 into an S1 should straightforward as I think the transmission is the same and the engines are very similar.. (but thats just my own idea :-) I'll bet its been done more than a few times in the past..
The definition of an S1.5 is more or less an S1 with a 2.9 engine biut the real problem is that the 88-89 transistion period was just that and nearly every car that came out was a bit of a hybrid to some degree. The real problem was partially caused by engine availability from Ford (allegedly) and the fact that TVR had lots of bits so you had S1 with 2.9 engines cos TVR couldn't get the 2.8 and S2's with 2.8 engines and S1 bits because they ... etc etc. There is no definitive statement of what makes an S1 an S1.5 and vice versa. Pages 16/17/18 in the S manual go through the basic changes and if you look at the S1.5 specs they overlap so much with the S1 and S2.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
That transplant would require a change in the ECU, fuel injection system is different, it would be a major job.
The engine itself would fit. It may need different mounts etc but essentially they are the same.
The work that would be needed to change the wiring etc etc would be a lot of work for not a lot of difference.
The 2.8 can be converted to unleaded etc and that would be my right route.
Cheers
Mark
The engine itself would fit. It may need different mounts etc but essentially they are the same.
The work that would be needed to change the wiring etc etc would be a lot of work for not a lot of difference.
The 2.8 can be converted to unleaded etc and that would be my right route.
Cheers
Mark
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