HELP! - Making the clutch pedal action lighter
Discussion
Can anyone out there give me some advice on what (if anything) can be done to an S3 to make the clutch pedal action lighter?
I've a history of knee problems, and following (yet another) knee op yesterday, I'm concerned that I'm going to struggle driving my beloved TVR...
Any advice / suggestion much appreciated, since I don't want to have to sell up. I'm looking for car related ideas, not Podie ones (I already have physio and go the gym etc etc).
Podie
I've a history of knee problems, and following (yet another) knee op yesterday, I'm concerned that I'm going to struggle driving my beloved TVR...
Any advice / suggestion much appreciated, since I don't want to have to sell up. I'm looking for car related ideas, not Podie ones (I already have physio and go the gym etc etc).
Podie
Can anyone out there give me some advice on what (if anything) can be done to an S3 to make the clutch pedal action lighter?
I've a history of knee problems, and following (yet another) knee op yesterday, I'm concerned that I'm going to struggle driving my beloved TVR...
Sorry to hear that - hope it all works out for you!
Can't help with the clutch problem though
>> Edited by Ren Dao on Thursday 3rd April 23:24
Hi Podie,
I thought I'd chip in, as none of the usual suspects have piped up yet.
On the basis that the clutch should conform to the basic laws of hydraulics, I'd guess that the only way to make the action lighter, without completely re-engineering the whole mechanism, would be to fit a larger master cylinder, as this would effectively give you more leverage, thereby making the clutch plate easier to move. 
I could, of course, be talking complete bollocks, and, even if I'm not, I have no idea how feasible it would be to change the master cylinder.
I hope you find a solution anyhow.
Richard
I thought I'd chip in, as none of the usual suspects have piped up yet.
On the basis that the clutch should conform to the basic laws of hydraulics, I'd guess that the only way to make the action lighter, without completely re-engineering the whole mechanism, would be to fit a larger master cylinder, as this would effectively give you more leverage, thereby making the clutch plate easier to move. I could, of course, be talking complete bollocks, and, even if I'm not, I have no idea how feasible it would be to change the master cylinder.
I hope you find a solution anyhow.
Richard
I was going to be flippant about building up your left thigh when i read the title of the thread but i won't now 
.
Have no idea on how to make it lighter, assuming that is standard with no underlying problems. If you do find a solution keep it to yourself as its the only thing that keeps the misses out of the car.... oh....... along with the lack of power steering .
Harry
. Have no idea on how to make it lighter, assuming that is standard with no underlying problems. If you do find a solution keep it to yourself as its the only thing that keeps the misses out of the car
.... oh....... along with the lack of power steering . Harry
Following on with the basic laws of physics - I would think it is impractical to actually reduce the force needed to active the clutch plate spring itself, therefore the only option is to look at the hydraulic system. I think it is fair to say that to release the clutch you still have to achieve the same "work done" to release the clutch therefore if you go for a "lighter" hydraulic system you must therefore increase the pedal travel. Not sure how practical this is given the confines of the cockpit. Other than this it would surely require some sort of power assistance, I don't know what systems there are out there that can do this.
Podie,
Might be worth a call to one of the companies who do car conversions for people with disabilities, as they do considerably work reducing the number of controls, doing without foot controls etc. Perhaps they might have done something before that would be similar to make the clutch action easier.
Other option might be to switch to an auto box, not sure how feasible that is though.
Sorry to hear about your troubles though, hope you recover from the op quickly.
Might be worth a call to one of the companies who do car conversions for people with disabilities, as they do considerably work reducing the number of controls, doing without foot controls etc. Perhaps they might have done something before that would be similar to make the clutch action easier.
Other option might be to switch to an auto box, not sure how feasible that is though.
Sorry to hear about your troubles though, hope you recover from the op quickly.
A previous poster mentioned the possibility of power assistance.
Would it be possible to have a servo assisted clutch?
In much the same way as brake effort is reduced by incorporating a servo powered by manifold vaccuum into the hydraulic braking system, could one be linked to the clutch system?
Apologies if this is complete b*ll*x, thoughts required from a more technicaly minded person perhaps!
Anyways hope you get something sorted, mate!
Preston1990
Would it be possible to have a servo assisted clutch?
In much the same way as brake effort is reduced by incorporating a servo powered by manifold vaccuum into the hydraulic braking system, could one be linked to the clutch system?
Apologies if this is complete b*ll*x, thoughts required from a more technicaly minded person perhaps!
Anyways hope you get something sorted, mate!
Preston1990
Paul,
Being as its a Ford engine and Ford gearbox are you sure it still has a Ford clutch as some people tend to upgrade and this can make them stiffer (no knob jokes).From what I can remember when I drove a capri 2.9i Special years ago the clutch wasnt that heavy,so mabe a different clutch might help.I will ask the boys at Dunton this afternoon when I pop over for a meeting, if any of them are back from the pub that is.
Being as its a Ford engine and Ford gearbox are you sure it still has a Ford clutch as some people tend to upgrade and this can make them stiffer (no knob jokes).From what I can remember when I drove a capri 2.9i Special years ago the clutch wasnt that heavy,so mabe a different clutch might help.I will ask the boys at Dunton this afternoon when I pop over for a meeting, if any of them are back from the pub that is.
My left knee is held together with bits of nylon as a result of a soccer injury in 1985. Since then any tyre and TVR carrier I have had have been autos because I did find manuals hard to use because of the stiffness. I found that the prone driving position in the Tiv was not a problem at all and have not had any problems.
So it may not be that bad.
So it may not be that bad.
shpub said: My left knee is held together with bits of nylon as a result of a soccer injury in 1985. Since then any tyre and TVR carrier I have had have been autos because I did find manuals hard to use because of the stiffness. I found that the prone driving position in the Tiv was not a problem at all and have not had any problems.
So it may not be that bad.
Well here's hoping... my left one is held together by a series of metal pins and some plastic stuff... oh, and there is no cruciate (sp?) ligament either...
Prior to this op, I was OK with the Tiv clutch... although I did know about it after a long drive. Unfortunately there were "complications" this time round, and it currently appears there may be some further damage; hence reduced strength.
I'm calling in a few favours with some engineer friends of mine, so hopefully we'll find a solution.
Will also chat to the mobility experts to see what they can suggest. Would rather not go to an auto or hand clutch to be honest - think it would destroy the driving enjoyment of the car.
If anyone else has any ideas, then please chip in.
Podie, you big southern jessie. Next you'll be wanting power steering and an electric hood too.
But seriously though, anything cheap will require mods to the pedal box and would mean extra travel for your foot, laws of physics, I'm afraid. Next option is to fit the auto box, but I think this will ruin any fun you get from the car and maybe make it uncontrollable too. A bit expensive with all the mods that will be required.
On the knee thing I can only sympathise, as I've got a dodgy pair too, not as bad as your's though. Pain was so bad that I could barely walk at times. Found that 2000mg of cod liver oil tabs every morning and a pair of "Orthaheel" shoe inserts did the trick. Have you tried any modified footwear at all?
Andy
edited to add that I type slow, so missed your last posting. Definitely look into the shoe mods though.
>> Edited by andyf007 on Friday 4th April 11:07
But seriously though, anything cheap will require mods to the pedal box and would mean extra travel for your foot, laws of physics, I'm afraid. Next option is to fit the auto box, but I think this will ruin any fun you get from the car and maybe make it uncontrollable too. A bit expensive with all the mods that will be required.
On the knee thing I can only sympathise, as I've got a dodgy pair too, not as bad as your's though. Pain was so bad that I could barely walk at times. Found that 2000mg of cod liver oil tabs every morning and a pair of "Orthaheel" shoe inserts did the trick. Have you tried any modified footwear at all?
Andy
edited to add that I type slow, so missed your last posting. Definitely look into the shoe mods though.
>> Edited by andyf007 on Friday 4th April 11:07
Hi Podie
When reading this keep in mind that I'm an Electronics Engineer, and therefore not into fluid mechanics I don't think a larger master cyl. will be enough, but if you couple that with a longer lever arm off the slave cylinder that should give a lighter action. The new master cyl then need to give enough fluid flow to actuate the arm over its entire flow other wise the biting point will be off. Hope that helps
Rod
When reading this keep in mind that I'm an Electronics Engineer, and therefore not into fluid mechanics
I don't think a larger master cyl. will be enough, but if you couple that with a longer lever arm off the slave cylinder that should give a lighter action. The new master cyl then need to give enough fluid flow to actuate the arm over its entire flow other wise the biting point will be off. Hope that helps Rod
Andy - footwear isn't really the problem here mate (looked into that in previous years), it's the amount of force that my left knee can exert on a regular basis to operate a heavy clutch pedal.
As mentioned, physics will hold the answers... just a case of working it out!
In the short term, it may have to be a case of strapping it up to help give it some support.
Oh, and for the record... 2 knees, 26 ops in 12 years!
>> Edited by Podie on Friday 4th April 11:37
As mentioned, physics will hold the answers... just a case of working it out!
In the short term, it may have to be a case of strapping it up to help give it some support.
Oh, and for the record... 2 knees, 26 ops in 12 years!
>> Edited by Podie on Friday 4th April 11:37
Podie said: Andy - footwear isn't really the problem here mate (looked into that in previous years), it's the amount of force that my left knee can exert on a regular basis to operate a heavy clutch pedal.
As mentioned, physics will hold the answers... just a case of working it out!
In the short term, it may have to be a case of strapping it up to help give it some support.
Oh, and for the record... 2 knees, 26 ops in 12 years!
>> Edited by Podie on Friday 4th April 11:37
Yeah, figured you might have already been down that route. Like I said, any changes to the pedal box levers or servo size will result in an extended amount of travel on the pedal. You will have to judge for yourself if that is acceptable. I seem to recall many years ago some thing called an "electronic servo assist mechanism" being used. I'll see what I can dig up for you.
26 ops!!!
Get them to put a couple of zips in, if they haven't already. Andy
I think the main options are going to be:
smaller master cylinder, or
larger slave cylinder, or
longer actuating arm at the clutch (which may not be feasible), or
more mechanical leverage at the pedal
All of these will increase the travel at the pedal.
If you want to look at more expensive options you may be able to find a multi-plate clutch which would have a lighter spring and need less force.
I would say that changing the leverage at the pedal is the least technically complicated option and this is the one I'd go for if it was me. The basic approach would be to move the pivot close to the clutch master cylinder - it probably wouldn't have to move far.
smaller master cylinder, or
larger slave cylinder, or
longer actuating arm at the clutch (which may not be feasible), or
more mechanical leverage at the pedal
All of these will increase the travel at the pedal.
If you want to look at more expensive options you may be able to find a multi-plate clutch which would have a lighter spring and need less force.
I would say that changing the leverage at the pedal is the least technically complicated option and this is the one I'd go for if it was me. The basic approach would be to move the pivot close to the clutch master cylinder - it probably wouldn't have to move far.
Ouch 26 ops!
I reckon that servo assistance of some sort would be the most straightforward if you can find the bits. Space in the engine bay will be a problem I guess.
On the hydraulics side would a different slave cylinder help (might be easier to change than the master). I seem to recall from schoolboy physics (but that was a very long time ago!) that it's the difference in bore between the master and slave cylinder that determines the effort required.
Just looking on the web at www.aphydraulics.com/ they have a section on clutch hydraulics that mentions tailoring to customer requirements. Might be somewhere to start.
Good luck in your search.
Colin
I reckon that servo assistance of some sort would be the most straightforward if you can find the bits. Space in the engine bay will be a problem I guess.
On the hydraulics side would a different slave cylinder help (might be easier to change than the master). I seem to recall from schoolboy physics (but that was a very long time ago!) that it's the difference in bore between the master and slave cylinder that determines the effort required.
Just looking on the web at www.aphydraulics.com/ they have a section on clutch hydraulics that mentions tailoring to customer requirements. Might be somewhere to start.
Good luck in your search.
Colin
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