Scared about global warming?
Discussion
With high emission, low fuel economy cars looking likely to bear a brunt of this latest climate change movement, are PH's starting to worry about TVR ownership?
My 'S' purchase plans are out the window at the moment, and I might be going over the top, but I am slightly concerned that they might be outlawed by the time I get round to having the requisite funds! This would be my boyhood dream destroyed by one dour Scottish bloke's signature.
My 'S' purchase plans are out the window at the moment, and I might be going over the top, but I am slightly concerned that they might be outlawed by the time I get round to having the requisite funds! This would be my boyhood dream destroyed by one dour Scottish bloke's signature.
Nope. I will do everything in my power to continue to run a heavy drinking, noisy, fast car - just to pi** off as many climate change handwringers as I possibly can.
Then when the majority of the population begin to realise that they are having the wool pulled over their eyes and that motoring is nowhere near as big a threat as they are being led to believe I shall laugh in their faces as I overtake their Duracell powered crapwagons trundling along at 17.3mph.
Then when the majority of the population begin to realise that they are having the wool pulled over their eyes and that motoring is nowhere near as big a threat as they are being led to believe I shall laugh in their faces as I overtake their Duracell powered crapwagons trundling along at 17.3mph.
Showing the way is one thing - taxing people into submission for using their cars when there is no real viable alternative under the thinly veiled guise of 'environmental improvement' driven by propoganda and scare tactics is another thing altogether.
Countries with emerging economies such as those you mentionned won't suddenly realise the error of their ways, they'll simply laugh at us as they take no notice of the environmental impact of building dozens of coal fired power stations and expanding their already rapidly growing industrial sectors.
Taxing a car is not the way to bring about a wholesale change in the way we look at the impact of pollution. A consistent and well thought out approach to nuclear/renewable power and pressurising the most polluting nations at a diplomatic and then economic level to sort themselves out is the way to go.
Still, the current bunch in power wouldn't let good ideas get in the way of a bit of revenue raising now would they.
It's too early for this. Can't we talk about tyres or indicator lenses or something
Countries with emerging economies such as those you mentionned won't suddenly realise the error of their ways, they'll simply laugh at us as they take no notice of the environmental impact of building dozens of coal fired power stations and expanding their already rapidly growing industrial sectors.
Taxing a car is not the way to bring about a wholesale change in the way we look at the impact of pollution. A consistent and well thought out approach to nuclear/renewable power and pressurising the most polluting nations at a diplomatic and then economic level to sort themselves out is the way to go.
Still, the current bunch in power wouldn't let good ideas get in the way of a bit of revenue raising now would they.
It's too early for this. Can't we talk about tyres or indicator lenses or something
dougc said:
Nope. I will do everything in my power to continue to run a heavy drinking, noisy, fast car - just to pi** off as many climate change handwringers as I possibly can.
Then when the majority of the population begin to realise that they are having the wool pulled over their eyes and that motoring is nowhere near as big a threat as they are being led to believe I shall laugh in their faces as I overtake their Duracell powered crapwagons trundling along at 17.3mph.
Then when the majority of the population begin to realise that they are having the wool pulled over their eyes and that motoring is nowhere near as big a threat as they are being led to believe I shall laugh in their faces as I overtake their Duracell powered crapwagons trundling along at 17.3mph.
Well said.
This is all utter bollox.
The UK cpntributes 2% of the world CO2 emissions, so if we go back to caves it will make no difference.
This is about Bliar and New Labia wantingot crush the successful and steal from them to subsidise the scum underclass.
Here endeth the lesson.
dougc said:
Showing the way is one thing - taxing people into submission for using their cars when there is no real viable alternative under the thinly veiled guise of 'environmental improvement' driven by propoganda and scare tactics is another thing altogether.
Still, the current bunch in power wouldn't let good ideas get in the way of a bit of revenue raising now would they.
It's too early for this. Can't we talk about tyres or indicator lenses or something
Still, the current bunch in power wouldn't let good ideas get in the way of a bit of revenue raising now would they.
It's too early for this. Can't we talk about tyres or indicator lenses or something
I am with you on this one Doug.
Stealth tax loosley disguised as Green for all !
Bollox again from this Goverment.
Sure, I am all for greener worlds but this propaganda goes on & on.........
Blahhh !!!!! Makes me mad
I beleive China are currently putting 1000 extra cars per day on the roads.America wont sign a treaty,and if the Government (this or any other) really cared about pollution from Large engined cars or the effects of smoking etc to the extent they make out they do,they would not raise tax on them,they would ban them.They would never ban anything that raises them the levels of income which they get off these things.
At the risk of adding to evident anger about this load of environmental claptrap we are fed.(Can't be more than my own)
Can't understand the logic of £175/year tax on mine at 2.9 ltr,yet £196/year on my wifes four year old peugeot 2 ltr. Her emissions are nothing on mine...stand by our exausts and compare!
Sorry, forgot...looked for logic. Stupid of me.
Even the BBC has taken to calling anything over 1.6 ltr as a 'gas guzzler'
I live in the country. No car...no go out! No job either actually.
Can't understand the logic of £175/year tax on mine at 2.9 ltr,yet £196/year on my wifes four year old peugeot 2 ltr. Her emissions are nothing on mine...stand by our exausts and compare!
Sorry, forgot...looked for logic. Stupid of me.
Even the BBC has taken to calling anything over 1.6 ltr as a 'gas guzzler'
I live in the country. No car...no go out! No job either actually.
I think that the way forward is for the government to communicate rules and legislation regarding emissions 3 - 4 years before they actually are introduced. I think that is the way it works in California, not sure though.
Then it is up to the automotive industry to make sure their coming car models will pass the new emission laws once they are introduced. Consumers should also be given some kind of "reward" souch as tax reduction, when buying a new car that passes the new emission restrictions.
The wrong way to go is to punish consumers who drive older cars. They should not be punished for driving an old car, they should be encouraged to buy a newer cleaner car.
I'm really disgusted by politicians who think in the "lets give people who do things we don't like a hard time"-way. People should instead be encouraged to do what is best for the environment.
I am also convinced that if needed there will be conversion kits available for converting your S Series to run for example on E85 (85% Ethanol). Perhaps all you would have to do is a remap of the ECU?
Edited to say: E85-cars are a huge success here in Sweden right now and Saab has just released a BioPower version of their 2.3 ltr enginge, producing 210 bhp.
Johan
Then it is up to the automotive industry to make sure their coming car models will pass the new emission laws once they are introduced. Consumers should also be given some kind of "reward" souch as tax reduction, when buying a new car that passes the new emission restrictions.
The wrong way to go is to punish consumers who drive older cars. They should not be punished for driving an old car, they should be encouraged to buy a newer cleaner car.
I'm really disgusted by politicians who think in the "lets give people who do things we don't like a hard time"-way. People should instead be encouraged to do what is best for the environment.
I am also convinced that if needed there will be conversion kits available for converting your S Series to run for example on E85 (85% Ethanol). Perhaps all you would have to do is a remap of the ECU?
Edited to say: E85-cars are a huge success here in Sweden right now and Saab has just released a BioPower version of their 2.3 ltr enginge, producing 210 bhp.
Johan
Edited by Johan G on Tuesday 31st October 08:19
Vesuvius 996 said:
This is about Bliar and New Labia wantingot crush the successful and steal from them to subsidise the scum underclass.
Actually I think it is more about Blair and his corrupt cabinet becoming desparate about the future of themselves and their party. What we are seeing in this new 'eco-concerned Labour frenzy' is actually a bunch of pathetic, corrupt politicians scrambling over each other in a futile attempt to get onto a life raft that they think might just carry them into another term in power. Blair's advisers have probably told him it's his last chance to establish a legacy.
F908 Tim said:
...Can't understand the logic of £175/year tax on mine at 2.9 ltr,yet £196/year on my wifes four year old peugeot 2 ltr. Her emissions are nothing on mine...stand by our exausts and compare!
Sorry, forgot...looked for logic. Stupid of me.
Even the BBC has taken to calling anything over 1.6 ltr as a 'gas guzzler'
If people can afford the higher depreciation of a newer car it does seem logical that they can stump up more for VED. Would suggest not shouting about this one, leave classic cars alone... ! Sorry, forgot...looked for logic. Stupid of me.
Even the BBC has taken to calling anything over 1.6 ltr as a 'gas guzzler'
Did TVR Close down for this reason...and did people stop buying TVR for this reason?
Are we destined for a two class society. Those who can afford a car of any engine size and buy it just to demonstrate the fact, and those who can afford a 1.0 ltr.of indeterminate age.
When will we say enough of this? Tackle Global Warming Globally. Despair at this news that another choice is being taken away from the majority and we fall for all the spin once again.
Give us polititians with some integrity and choices not dependant simply on ability to pay the meaningless tax.
Are we destined for a two class society. Those who can afford a car of any engine size and buy it just to demonstrate the fact, and those who can afford a 1.0 ltr.of indeterminate age.
When will we say enough of this? Tackle Global Warming Globally. Despair at this news that another choice is being taken away from the majority and we fall for all the spin once again.
Give us polititians with some integrity and choices not dependant simply on ability to pay the meaningless tax.
My view on this is to get it quickly and buy the car you want now before legislation gets put through!
I wouldn't be surprised if we do reach a point where VED on high emissions cars will be thousands a year rather than hundreds, BUT....
This would apply across the board, so whilst it would hit cars like mine (4.6 litre V8) it is also going to hit tens of thousands of older cars being run by the least well off in this country.
Given the quantities involved, I really don't think there is any chance whatsoever that the government can introduce legislation on anything other than cars registered after the date of legislation, as it would be completely unworkable otherwise:
Thousands of people unable to pay their VED on older cars....
but unable to sell them, as nobody would buy them...
unable to scrap them as scrapyards wouldn't be able to cope with the overwhelming load...
unable to SORN many of them as they may well not have off road parking...
and the courts certainly wouldn't be able to cope under the pressure of that many prosecutions!
I look at it as the perfect petrolhead argument... I HAVE to run this big old V8, because I can't sell it, and it would do more damage to the environment to crush it and buy something new!
I wouldn't be surprised if we do reach a point where VED on high emissions cars will be thousands a year rather than hundreds, BUT....
This would apply across the board, so whilst it would hit cars like mine (4.6 litre V8) it is also going to hit tens of thousands of older cars being run by the least well off in this country.
Given the quantities involved, I really don't think there is any chance whatsoever that the government can introduce legislation on anything other than cars registered after the date of legislation, as it would be completely unworkable otherwise:
Thousands of people unable to pay their VED on older cars....
but unable to sell them, as nobody would buy them...
unable to scrap them as scrapyards wouldn't be able to cope with the overwhelming load...
unable to SORN many of them as they may well not have off road parking...
and the courts certainly wouldn't be able to cope under the pressure of that many prosecutions!
I look at it as the perfect petrolhead argument... I HAVE to run this big old V8, because I can't sell it, and it would do more damage to the environment to crush it and buy something new!
I have noticed a local garage has been selling Chims they have part exchanged for silly money over the last 3 months or so. £7k for an R plate last week, beautiful condition car.
Perhaps its better to wait and see. What you pay in the anticipated tax might be offset by savings on the car.
Selling it later could be a different story of course!
Perhaps its better to wait and see. What you pay in the anticipated tax might be offset by savings on the car.
Selling it later could be a different story of course!
Been thinking about this a lot recently, as said above tax goes up, casuing it to be prohibitively expensive for us who run our sports cars on a budget to drive them, but because of this we can't sell them. So then what happens? The government are effectively writing off the value of your car. I see a general trend of tax the bu$$ery out of the motorist, because for some reason they can afford it. It has to come to a crux sometime. Fuel escalator, road pricing per mile, massively increased road tax, black boxes, higher parking charges, all to seeminly get people out of their cars and in/on to..... what? Public transport is increasing in price just as steadily and is no better! So what is the alternative? Show me an alternative that will get me to the shops and to my parent's cheaply and efficiantly and of course I'll take it.
I will stop driving my car when they pry the keys out of my cold dead fingers!! When the green idiots attack me I just tell them I am doing my best to deplete the world's supply of oil so that alternative fuel sources have to be found quicker.
I will stop driving my car when they pry the keys out of my cold dead fingers!! When the green idiots attack me I just tell them I am doing my best to deplete the world's supply of oil so that alternative fuel sources have to be found quicker.
As with most things with this government they just want to tax the rich (or who they perceive to be) to fund the lazy gits that cant be arsed to work or the illegal immigrants they have allowed to stay that are putting a huge burden on our services. AND as always this government has got it completely wrong, they want to stick a huge tax on cars with bigger engines to stop the CO2 output, but isnt this related to the amount of miles you actually drive?? My V8S does around 3000 miles a year, SO are they trying to tell me that a sales rep in his 1.6 Vectra doing 60,000 miles a year puts out less CO2 than me??? This is absolute madness?? If they are concerned they should stick toll roads up and down the country or have a pay per mile system?? My Touareg is the same, I only do about 10000 miles a year, same scenario??
This government is not concerned about CO2 because if they were they would actually be thinking of doing something about it, basically they have been looking for another 'tax the rich motorist' scheme for a while, this is just the excuse they are looking for???
I think we should fight this all the way guys, I feel PH revolution coming on
Mike
This government is not concerned about CO2 because if they were they would actually be thinking of doing something about it, basically they have been looking for another 'tax the rich motorist' scheme for a while, this is just the excuse they are looking for???
I think we should fight this all the way guys, I feel PH revolution coming on
Mike
I'm with you on the barricades. Just fed up with this assault on the motorist and the claptrap we are fed, and we seem to swallow it as "well, what can you do?".
How has this guy got back in so many times?
Is it worth a letter to the H.M.Gov pointing out the unfairness of this proposed tax approach on owners of cars such as ours with limited annual milage. If we do nothing we are as guilty as other sheep. Or, do we just grab our guns and meet on the M25?
Just fed up with this assault on the motorist and the claptrap we are fed, and we seem to swallow it as "well, what can you do?". How has this guy got back in so many times?
Is it worth a letter to the H.M.Gov pointing out the unfairness of this proposed tax approach on owners of cars such as ours with limited annual milage. If we do nothing we are as guilty as other sheep. Or, do we just grab our guns and meet on the M25?
[quote=V8Smith]As with most things with this government they just want to tax the rich (or who they perceive to be) to fund the lazy gits that cant be arsed to work or the illegal immigrants they have allowed to stay that are putting a huge burden on our services. ....
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My thoughts exactly Mike.
I found myself on the M6 toll today in my `GAS Guzzler` Hyundai Coupe 2.0 slow machine.
What a villan I must be ! 2 x Gas guzzlers in the goverments eyes ! As said, there I am on the Toll road and paying for the miles I was doing. The only logical move imo. (But it aint about the emissions is it ? )But how can it be fair to tax my A&& off for doing 2,000 miles per year in the TVR ? No, the fairest way to charge all the same, pence per mile.
Also, would this goverment also re-tax our gas guzzlers if they are a certain age too ?
Cant be right can. So imo that `new & latest` creep Millband can shove it up his own.
Rant over.............
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My thoughts exactly Mike.
I found myself on the M6 toll today in my `GAS Guzzler` Hyundai Coupe 2.0 slow machine.
What a villan I must be ! 2 x Gas guzzlers in the goverments eyes ! As said, there I am on the Toll road and paying for the miles I was doing. The only logical move imo. (But it aint about the emissions is it ? )But how can it be fair to tax my A&& off for doing 2,000 miles per year in the TVR ? No, the fairest way to charge all the same, pence per mile.
Also, would this goverment also re-tax our gas guzzlers if they are a certain age too ?
Cant be right can. So imo that `new & latest` creep Millband can shove it up his own.
Rant over.............
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