Not going round corners

[Tav]

Hoping for a bit of advice on the next problem to crop up on my car (S1). Have just had a new steering rack and column roller bearing fitted by tower view. One of the UJ''s is virtually brand new also. You would think I had perfect steering then? Oh no, life just isn''t that simple. The symptons I have are like this - Fine in a straight line, A road/ motorway bends etc but when I am going round a roundabout at the point where you are just about to leave i.e. at full lock, just starting to turn the wheel the other way - there seems to be a great deal of free play in the steering before it actually starts going the other way. Enough to cause a cold sweat!! No doubt Tower view will be more than willing to have a look at it and sort it out but in the meantime any suggestions???? Thanks Dave

[Greenv8s]

quote:when I am going round a roundabout at the point where you are just about to leave i.e. at full lock, just starting to turn the wheel the other way - there seems to be a great deal of free play in the steering before it actually starts going the other way. Enough to cause a cold sweat!!

Er - this sounds potentially dangerous and if it was me I'd want to stop, wait for the palpitations to go away and then work out what the problem is before driving the car another inch. It could be a loose pinch bolt or something, which if it dropped out could potentially leave you with no steering whatsoever. Doesn't bear thinking about. If you can feel the same play when the car is stationary, you should be able to track it down fairly easily by having a glamorous assistant move the steering while you stick you head under the bonnet and see what parts are moving. There are only a few places where you are likely to get play in the steering, the clamps attaching the UJs would be the prime suspect. It may only happen when you have some lock on i.e. not in the straight ahead position, but I would be very surprised if it only happened when the car was moving. Also suggest you give Tower View a call, they may be able to suggest other things to look for (depending where abouts you are they might take more positive action, you never know). If you do find the problem yourself you should let them know about it anyway. I know these people have worked hard to build up a good reputation and they will be as concerned as you are when there is a problem with something they have worked on. It may not be something they have caused, I don't know, but I would expect an explanation and if they *are* to blame I'd expect an apology and some form of compensation. Hope this helps, Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

[Tav]

Peter, Yes, I decided it was pretty dangerous too but the car is actually off the road having some other work done at the moment hence I have a bit of time to think about what the causes might be. I did try to look for play in the steering myself but as I'm sure you're aware its pretty difficult without that glamorous assistant - so that may be the next step (if I can persuade her to wear a sparkly outfit) Also I ought to say that I am not having a go at tower view, who have always provided an excellent service. I'm just looking for suggestions before I waste half a day taking it back to them to have a look at etc. Cheers Dave Edited by Tav on Friday 14th September 14:46

[roulli]

Hi Tav,

how did it turn out with steering. What was the reason for the free play?
I'm interested, because the steering gear (Lhd) of my 70.000km S3C has freeplay.
How much did it cost at tower view?
Was it new or reconditionned?

regards patrick

[Tav]

roulli

I had the rack reconditioned and fitted for about £180 + vat at tower view. I have only driven the car once since then, to get it back from having a new trailing arm fitted and strangely it appeared to behave much better. I'm working in Portugal at the moment hence I have not had the time to get to the bottom of it, but intend to get the steering checked out when I get the car geometry set up properly (soon I hope). I would still use and trust Tower view so dont be put of by my peculiar experiences as it may have nothing to do with the work they did - and I have not yet proved what is causing the problems.

Cheers

Dave

[Tav]

As things are a bit quiet here I thought I might update you all on how I solved my steering problem. To recap I can best describe the problem as having a change in feeling of the steering every so often when turning the wheel. I tell this lengthy story just in case it might help anybody else with similar problems.

I took the car back to tower view as it needed a service and they checked the steering from one end to another without finding a fault with any one component. So I have been scratching my head for a while. At the weekend I set about trying to find the fault by having somebody turn the wheel and listening with a length of rod to each part of the linkage to try to find where the odd feeling part of the steering was happening. Taking it in turns we tracked down a clunking noise to the area of the upper UJ. (at least I was not imagining it!!)

Knowing that this was Ok when tested on its own it was time to come up with obscure theories. The one we settled on was that maybe tolerances in the manufacture of the UJ’s were causing there to be an area of increased resistance when the two joints effectively tried to compress the rod between – this would feel like increased resistance to turn the wheel followed by a sudden easing or looseness as the point of compression was passed (which was exactly as felt) .

Solution to obscure theory was to remove upper joint turn it 120 degrees (being fixed on a triangular rod meaning it is not possible to rotate 180) reattach and see if this cancelled out the effect. Amazingly it appears to have worked.

I’m happy to believe that the theory was right as long as it has solved the problem.

End of story (and sweaty palms when going round corners)

Cheers

Dave

[Paul V]

I had some play in the upper UJ, it would be normal to turn then hard then easy again, it was down to the amount of play in it, I cured the problem by spraying with WD40 and then replaced it this weekend, it cost around £35 from tower view, worth while if you get any more problems.

Oh it also passed its MOT!

[Tav]

Thanks Paul V

If I get any more trouble I might replace it anyway, but the joint is only 2 years old and Tower View checked it and said it was OK, so thats why we tried to think of other things. I maybe should have said that the roller bearing had also been replaced with the steel variety so any slight movement that may have been taken up by the nylon variety had nowhere to go.

Just a theory though......

cheers

[M@H]

quote:
Solution to obscure theory was to remove upper joint turn it 120 degrees (being fixed on a triangular rod meaning it is not possible to rotate 180) reattach and see if this cancelled out the effect. Amazingly it appears to have worked.

I’m happy to believe that the theory was right as long as it has solved the problem.

End of story (and sweaty palms when going round corners)

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave..

Having replaced my Rack a while ago, I can say that in my experience the rule of thumb is, as you say, to always have the two UJ's 180 degrees to each other to prevent the effective length change you describe. To obtain the 180 degrees rather than the 120, you can remove the short connecting rod from the lower of the two Joints (by removing the retaining bolt and easing it off the splines), then refit it again having selected your desired angle ... the ends of this rod are the same as the splined "post" off the steering rack, so you can get 180 degrees easily.. (if you undo the 120degree "plate" fitting at the bottom of the steering column beforehand it gives you the lateral movement to back off the splined joints)

You can do this from the engine bay and wheelarch by jacking the car up and turning the wheels to give you better access.. should take 20mins at most. I must admit I am surprised that it was fitted differently originally.

Cheers,
Matt.


>> Edited by M@H on Tuesday 5th February 09:47

[Tav]

Thanks Matt

I'm pleased that you have said suggests there might be some truth in my theory. I may have another go at it later, but at the moment I'm just happy to have the car driving properly again.

Just need some half decent weather now.....

Cheers

[M@H]

quote:
I had some play in the upper UJ, it would be normal to turn then hard then easy again, it was down to the amount of play in it, I cured the problem by spraying with WD40 and then replaced it this weekend, it cost around £35 from tower view, worth while if you get any more problems.

Oh it also passed its MOT!

Anyone noticed that WD40 is quite a good de-greasant.. (I "clean" grease off my hands sometimes with a squirt of it).. therefore I'm wondering if its the best thing to be spraying UJ's with ??? (I'm only seeking opinion here Paul V, so no offence intended )

Cheers,
Matt.

[Roy C]

quote:
Anyone noticed that WD40 is quite a good de-greasant.. (I "clean" grease off my hands sometimes with a squirt of it).. therefore I'm wondering if its the best thing to be spraying UJ's with ??? (I'm only seeking opinion here Paul V, so no offence intended )

Cheers,
Matt.

I use copper grease (also available as a spray) to lubricate the steering UJs, as it stays where you put it (although it can gather dirt).

For some obscure reason, the top UJ seems more prone to wear through drying out than the lower UJ. When last replaced (by Tower View), Dave fitted part of a bike innertube over it (cable-tied at the top end) to protect it.

No problems since.

Roy

[GreenV8s]

quote:

quote:
Anyone noticed that WD40 is quite a good de-greasant.. (I "clean" grease off my hands sometimes with a squirt of it).. therefore I'm wondering if its the best thing to be spraying UJ's with ??? (I'm only seeking opinion here Paul V, so no offence intended )

Cheers,
Matt.

I use copper grease (also available as a spray) to lubricate the steering UJs, as it stays where you put it (although it can gather dirt).

For some obscure reason, the top UJ seems more prone to wear through drying out than the lower UJ. When last replaced (by Tower View), Dave fitted part of a bike innertube over it (cable-tied at the top end) to protect it.

No problems since.

Roy

I think the exhaust heat knackers it. I use steering rack gators to protect mine, the top UJ used to go like clockwork every 15,000 miles but with the gator on they are still both going strong after 60k miles. Normally you wouldn't grease these as the grease attracts dirt which destroys them, but since they're sealed away I packed them in with plenty of grease.

Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)