Potentially Contentious - EV Conversion anyone?
Discussion
Hi
I have an S1 that is mechanically/chassis sound but needs a repaint and the interior and hood need replacing. There's 6 months on the MoT and the car is quite usable.
My original plan was to fit the engine/box from an S-Type Jag, which I now have.
This is an all alloy 3.0L V6 apparently rated at about 240Bhp and the engine, excluding power steering pump, A/C pump comes in at over 172Kgs
and gearbox is a further 34Kgs
Here's the rub .... I also have bought one of these....
This is the transmission from a Lexus GS 450h. It has two electric motors, the first (MG1) is used to start the ICE, then when the ICE is running, it drives MG1 as a generator to charge the batteries and power the main drive motor MG2. ( I don't believe the ICE ever mechanically/directly drives the rear wheels) With the ICE removed and the transmission input shaft mechanically locked, both MG1 and MG2 can drive the rear wheels. MG2 is rated at just under 200Bhp; I'm not sure of MG1's output.
Adding batteries from say a BMW 530e (360V) the net weight increase would be about 80Kgs
So the question is, fit the Jag V6 or Lexus transmission?
Thought's everyone?
I have an S1 that is mechanically/chassis sound but needs a repaint and the interior and hood need replacing. There's 6 months on the MoT and the car is quite usable.
My original plan was to fit the engine/box from an S-Type Jag, which I now have.
This is an all alloy 3.0L V6 apparently rated at about 240Bhp and the engine, excluding power steering pump, A/C pump comes in at over 172Kgs
and gearbox is a further 34Kgs
Here's the rub .... I also have bought one of these....
This is the transmission from a Lexus GS 450h. It has two electric motors, the first (MG1) is used to start the ICE, then when the ICE is running, it drives MG1 as a generator to charge the batteries and power the main drive motor MG2. ( I don't believe the ICE ever mechanically/directly drives the rear wheels) With the ICE removed and the transmission input shaft mechanically locked, both MG1 and MG2 can drive the rear wheels. MG2 is rated at just under 200Bhp; I'm not sure of MG1's output.
Adding batteries from say a BMW 530e (360V) the net weight increase would be about 80Kgs
So the question is, fit the Jag V6 or Lexus transmission?
Thought's everyone?
And how are you going to mount this Frankenstein together and make it work? Old Jaguar engine mounted to later, but still old Lexus hybrid transmission, powered by BMW batteries, mounted in an ancient TVR, and you are going to get Jaguar, Lexus, BMW electronics and control models to talk to each other and work in a TVR?
And the cost of all this is going to be? And what is it going to be worth afterwards?
And the cost of all this is going to be? And what is it going to be worth afterwards?
Great to see another person doing a TVR EV build. Really interested to see the results with the lexus set up.
I'm having fund deciding on a motor at the moment as well.
If you havent seen my vlog / channel heres a link of the TVR Wedgee
https://youtu.be/t_srIEcfvms
I'm having fund deciding on a motor at the moment as well.
If you havent seen my vlog / channel heres a link of the TVR Wedgee
https://youtu.be/t_srIEcfvms
- CHARGEHEADSUK #TvrWedgee
I think hybrid petrol/electric gives you the worst of both worlds in terms of weight, space, complexity and performance. The only reason I can see for that is range anxiety or wanting to cheap out on battery costs, but I think that will soon disappear with the rollout of fast chargers.
Timma001 said:
Great to see another person doing a TVR EV build. Really interested to see the results with the lexus set up.
I'm having fund deciding on a motor at the moment as well.
If you havent seen my vlog / channel heres a link of the TVR Wedgee
https://youtu.be/t_srIEcfvms
Is it? I always thought TVRs were about the sound and the engines.I'm having fund deciding on a motor at the moment as well.
If you havent seen my vlog / channel heres a link of the TVR Wedgee
https://youtu.be/t_srIEcfvms
- CHARGEHEADSUK #TvrWedgee
A TVR sounding like a Hoover rather destroys the appeal.
No, I'm not an eco/eviro pro-motor (get the EV pun), but to anyone who hasn't driven a new BEV car yet, you're missing out on the experience. I'm definitely not suggesting anyone go out a buy one especially with current public charging variables. Plus I'm a low mileage retired old git, so our bev charging is 99% done at home, so that's no issue.
Terry's Tale thread details my S3 conversion to the 3.0 AJ30 Jag engine etc. But being an open minded person, I too, did consider doing a BEV S3 (mentally at least).
For me there were x2 main issues... The cost, and the range (based on not having too many heavy batteries onboard). That's excluding physically doing the conversion of course. Added to those thoughts, what about selling it on (eventually), recovering some/all of my costs, value, and saleability.
My total drivetrain conversion to the AJ setup has been around £4k. I guestimated that the BEV conversion would have been at least treble that, and that's with me doing the bulk of the work.
Don't get me wrong, I know it would have been quieter, quicker, and 2 pedal driving.
But... I just couldn't justify doing it.
So at the moment at our home it's ICE 2, BEV 1.
And with another classic project now being considered (from the 60's), I can see that will be ICE 3, BEV 1 in the future.
Good luck in whichever direction you go. I'd love to see it out there whatever it's powered by.
Oh, have a look at the Quest TV channel program Vintage Voltage. Not too in depth, but interesting all the same.
T.
Terry's Tale thread details my S3 conversion to the 3.0 AJ30 Jag engine etc. But being an open minded person, I too, did consider doing a BEV S3 (mentally at least).
For me there were x2 main issues... The cost, and the range (based on not having too many heavy batteries onboard). That's excluding physically doing the conversion of course. Added to those thoughts, what about selling it on (eventually), recovering some/all of my costs, value, and saleability.
My total drivetrain conversion to the AJ setup has been around £4k. I guestimated that the BEV conversion would have been at least treble that, and that's with me doing the bulk of the work.
Don't get me wrong, I know it would have been quieter, quicker, and 2 pedal driving.
But... I just couldn't justify doing it.
So at the moment at our home it's ICE 2, BEV 1.
And with another classic project now being considered (from the 60's), I can see that will be ICE 3, BEV 1 in the future.
Good luck in whichever direction you go. I'd love to see it out there whatever it's powered by.
Oh, have a look at the Quest TV channel program Vintage Voltage. Not too in depth, but interesting all the same.
T.
Edited by Blue 30 on Monday 21st February 12:41
What's your motivation behind changing the existing engine & gearbox, as you say it's useable currently?
From your post I'm not sure whether you're thinking of adding the Lexus transmission to the Jag ICE to make a hybrid, or using it instead of an ICE for a BEV. I would think with the small size and light weight of an S you'd find a hybrid system difficult to squeeze in and the weight would remove any performance advantage. Saving 70kg and the volume of the ICE by changing to a BEV would get you space and weight for the batteries, but you're trading those off with range.
Another question as you've not mentioned it - do you have the control electronics? That's not trivial and needs to be configured for your set-up. I suspect, but I'm not certain, that it would also need to interface with the ICE engine management if you go the hybrid route.
Before embarking on my S1 restoration I thought about going the BEV route, but the cost using new parts would have been £20k+ so I'm sticking with the Cologne drivetrain. It's an interesting idea and I look forward to reading all about it if you do go ahead.
From your post I'm not sure whether you're thinking of adding the Lexus transmission to the Jag ICE to make a hybrid, or using it instead of an ICE for a BEV. I would think with the small size and light weight of an S you'd find a hybrid system difficult to squeeze in and the weight would remove any performance advantage. Saving 70kg and the volume of the ICE by changing to a BEV would get you space and weight for the batteries, but you're trading those off with range.
Another question as you've not mentioned it - do you have the control electronics? That's not trivial and needs to be configured for your set-up. I suspect, but I'm not certain, that it would also need to interface with the ICE engine management if you go the hybrid route.
Before embarking on my S1 restoration I thought about going the BEV route, but the cost using new parts would have been £20k+ so I'm sticking with the Cologne drivetrain. It's an interesting idea and I look forward to reading all about it if you do go ahead.
These Lexus Hybrid transmission can be adapted to run as a pure EV, which is what the Op is suggesting.
I’d say go for that route if you can, and have the technical know how to do it!
Read about a guy that did this with the same Lexus transmission and a BMW 330. Had amazing power/torque when done.
I’d say go for that route if you can, and have the technical know how to do it!
Read about a guy that did this with the same Lexus transmission and a BMW 330. Had amazing power/torque when done.
Well, being a 5 ICE 0 BEV person, I'll change that to 4 ICE, 1 BEV.
My primary source of information is this chap -
https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/about
and more specifically, the Lexus transmission
https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/side-projects/hybr...
So, the complete 65,000 mile 2.8 engine and gearbox, injection etc will be for sale shortly.
I'm currently making the motor loom, this project may take a while!
Budget wise, I've spent £1,700 to get to the point I have a working motor on the bench. The further expense will be battery management (BMS), batteries and charging . I'm not going to use second hand high voltage contactors etc, so that's a couple of hundred quid.
My primary source of information is this chap -
https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/about
and more specifically, the Lexus transmission
https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/side-projects/hybr...
So, the complete 65,000 mile 2.8 engine and gearbox, injection etc will be for sale shortly.
I'm currently making the motor loom, this project may take a while!
Budget wise, I've spent £1,700 to get to the point I have a working motor on the bench. The further expense will be battery management (BMS), batteries and charging . I'm not going to use second hand high voltage contactors etc, so that's a couple of hundred quid.
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