technical power teaser??
Discussion
Hi guys..... technical time....
I am running the 1991 ford (granada) 2.9lV6 in the S3c (althiough now decatted) and I am suffering from a lack of power... as in it doesn't seem to be as good as it should be but it is running fine...
TVR's claimed ( yeah I know!!) figures are 168BHP @ 5400 rpm with torque of 191lbs/ft@ 3575 rpm.
I am currently running at 139.5 bhp @ 5368 rpm with torque of 143 lbs/ft @ 4658 rpm.
I am running a decatted exhaust which is custom built and cross flowed. Manifolds are original ford.
Everything seems to running fine.... air fuel mixture is good and the car has no flat spots. Starts fine with no idle problems.
It has no air flow meters as it was a cat system prior to de-catting so uses Lambda sensors.
One thought is that the timing may be out but as it is a seeled unit there is no way to alter it via the ECU...
Any thoughts on how to get the power up?? The granada engine would produce about 140 to 149 bhp with a normal exhaust.
I am considering chipping to force a new map on the ECU (which is a ford but who knows what it is off!!) but am I overlooking anything obvious??
Thanks Paul
I am running the 1991 ford (granada) 2.9lV6 in the S3c (althiough now decatted) and I am suffering from a lack of power... as in it doesn't seem to be as good as it should be but it is running fine...
TVR's claimed ( yeah I know!!) figures are 168BHP @ 5400 rpm with torque of 191lbs/ft@ 3575 rpm.
I am currently running at 139.5 bhp @ 5368 rpm with torque of 143 lbs/ft @ 4658 rpm.
I am running a decatted exhaust which is custom built and cross flowed. Manifolds are original ford.
Everything seems to running fine.... air fuel mixture is good and the car has no flat spots. Starts fine with no idle problems.
It has no air flow meters as it was a cat system prior to de-catting so uses Lambda sensors.
One thought is that the timing may be out but as it is a seeled unit there is no way to alter it via the ECU...
Any thoughts on how to get the power up?? The granada engine would produce about 140 to 149 bhp with a normal exhaust.
I am considering chipping to force a new map on the ECU (which is a ford but who knows what it is off!!) but am I overlooking anything obvious??
Thanks Paul
crumbs... you're still down on power 
i guess the engine is freed up a bit more with regular use......... something seriously aint right there IMHO
mine was putting out about 160 according to Austec... no mods or anything.... I was very happy with that on 15yrs old car with no fettling
i guess the engine is freed up a bit more with regular use......... something seriously aint right there IMHO
mine was putting out about 160 according to Austec... no mods or anything.... I was very happy with that on 15yrs old car with no fettling
its a puzzler..........
I am considering disconnecting the ECU to see if it will remap once reconnected but there sems to be two schools of thought...
1 it wont remap...
2 it will
just concerned it will run like sh****t aftrwards...
should point out the BHP is non ambient temperature adjustred so it is just the way it is rather than waht I would like to hear... and still couldn't get close to the car today when the wife was driving and she said she wasn't rying.... rolling road discrepancies???(sp) just a thought??
thing is never driven another so don't know if the car is slow or not.....
although the car is in mint condition I want it go with the best.... forget the refurbed alloys...
better buy more raffle tickets for rolling road sesions... engine is good ... exhaust is good... everything is good...
need more power....
or a V8s..........
will be happy to get to about 190bhp on the S3 after that to many other considerations to take into account....brakes , suspension etc........
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:18
I am considering disconnecting the ECU to see if it will remap once reconnected but there sems to be two schools of thought...
1 it wont remap...
2 it will
just concerned it will run like sh****t aftrwards...
should point out the BHP is non ambient temperature adjustred so it is just the way it is rather than waht I would like to hear... and still couldn't get close to the car today when the wife was driving and she said she wasn't rying.... rolling road discrepancies???(sp) just a thought??
thing is never driven another so don't know if the car is slow or not.....
although the car is in mint condition I want it go with the best.... forget the refurbed alloys...
better buy more raffle tickets for rolling road sesions... engine is good ... exhaust is good... everything is good...
need more power.... or a V8s..........
will be happy to get to about 190bhp on the S3 after that to many other considerations to take into account....brakes , suspension etc........
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:18
I don't think it's unusual to be down in the 150s but that is low.
How about a compression test wet and dry for a start.
Then I would get one of the experts on it, like Paul and Mark and get a piggy back job, that should get you up to 170ish if there are no underlying problems with the engine.
How about a compression test wet and dry for a start.
Then I would get one of the experts on it, like Paul and Mark and get a piggy back job, that should get you up to 170ish if there are no underlying problems with the engine.
the view on the engine is that it is solid.... this is what is so frustrating.... I have been looking at lots of options including chipping, remapping and remapping and throttle bodies.... but IMHO I think the chipping is the only cost effective way to go.... just wanted top make sure I haven't overlooked sopmething bl**dy obvious....
but will the ECU remap or not if I disconnect it??
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:39
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:40
but will the ECU remap or not if I disconnect it??
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:39
>> Edited by doddze on Sunday 10th July 21:40
well its been plugged in via the Rolling road and they say everything is ok..... but it did cross my mind re the lamda sensors.... thing is damn expensive to swap them...
I have a thread going in general gassing at the mo and it is looking like it may ne possible to dump the power to the ECU and re set it.....
just procedding with caution as the car runs ok at present.... worms and cans spring to mind....
anyway I have just bought the rest of the the raffle tickets I had for the S meet.... rolling road time nmay be handy..... ( of course this may be paranoia as the car runs great... just nothiong to compare against)
I have a thread going in general gassing at the mo and it is looking like it may ne possible to dump the power to the ECU and re set it.....
just procedding with caution as the car runs ok at present.... worms and cans spring to mind....
anyway I have just bought the rest of the the raffle tickets I had for the S meet.... rolling road time nmay be handy..... ( of course this may be paranoia as the car runs great... just nothiong to compare against)
GreenV8S said:
If the air/fuel ratio is OK then that seems to rule out faults on the injection side. What's left is ignition timing, or breathing restrictions on the inlet or exhaust side, for example from a knackered cam, blocked air filter/air intake, blocked exhaust.
Engine seems fine and had new exhaust last week. Old exhaust was knackered... timing is where we had got to at the garage but the problem is of course altering it!! As I understand the only way to go is to chip it... as the ECU does not allow timing adjustment.
Paul...
Have you tried giving Paul a call from Austec. After a few upgrades and Daztek unichips fitted he has a fair bit of experience with the V6.
When Podie first had his there, prior to the chipping, Paul diagnosed, leaking manifolds, injector issues, and mixture problems.
My 2p worth..Dave
Have you tried giving Paul a call from Austec. After a few upgrades and Daztek unichips fitted he has a fair bit of experience with the V6.
When Podie first had his there, prior to the chipping, Paul diagnosed, leaking manifolds, injector issues, and mixture problems.
My 2p worth..Dave
bridgdav said:
When Podie first had his there, prior to the chipping, Paul diagnosed, leaking manifolds, injector issues, and mixture problems.
Leaking manifold yes... injectors were cleaned but there was nothing wrong with them
but mixture was VERY lean. Post manifold it was just shy of 200bhp... and following the addition of a fifth injector it reached 212bhp prior to sale... but the car could still take more fuelling...
well the manifolds look like the original supplied with the car.... assumed they were ford but they haven't been changed...and they don't leak..
I think it will need to be chipped but just thought I would see if there are any other thoughts....
The only thing I think it can be is timing.... which is frustrating as the car is running fine just is down on power
Has anyone ever disconnected their ECU to remove the KAM (keep alive memory)and then reconnected it....
I am considering it on the offchance it may help but I don't want to reconnect it and then the car wont start
If I had never been on the rolling road I wouldn't have known it was down on power
I think it will need to be chipped but just thought I would see if there are any other thoughts....
The only thing I think it can be is timing.... which is frustrating as the car is running fine just is down on power
Has anyone ever disconnected their ECU to remove the KAM (keep alive memory)and then reconnected it....
I am considering it on the offchance it may help but I don't want to reconnect it and then the car wont start
If I had never been on the rolling road I wouldn't have known it was down on power
The EEC IV (ECU) doesn't have a KAM, so unplugging and reconnecting won't change much, but it's easy enough to do. Find the EEC next the fuse box in the passenger footwell, the large connector is held in place by a srew so simply undo it to release the plug.
It could be that one or more of the sensors is broken or has gone open circuit. If so then the ECU may be operating in 'limp home' mode which is a basic setting that will allow the car to run but with reduced power. Think you need to get a diagnostic tool on the ECU to see what it thinks is going on, the ECU port is down in the footwell too. You can pick up a Gunsons one from Halfwits for about £20 or so. They are OK but aren't the easiest of things to interpret.
Colin
It could be that one or more of the sensors is broken or has gone open circuit. If so then the ECU may be operating in 'limp home' mode which is a basic setting that will allow the car to run but with reduced power. Think you need to get a diagnostic tool on the ECU to see what it thinks is going on, the ECU port is down in the footwell too. You can pick up a Gunsons one from Halfwits for about £20 or so. They are OK but aren't the easiest of things to interpret.
Colin
Colin Blues2 said:
The EEC IV (ECU) doesn't have a KAM, so unplugging and reconnecting won't change much, but it's easy enough to do. Find the EEC next the fuse box in the passenger footwell, the large connector is held in place by a srew so simply undo it to release the plug.
It could be that one or more of the sensors is broken or has gone open circuit. If so then the ECU may be operating in 'limp home' mode which is a basic setting that will allow the car to run but with reduced power. Think you need to get a diagnostic tool on the ECU to see what it thinks is going on, the ECU port is down in the footwell too. You can pick up a Gunsons one from Halfwits for about £20 or so. They are OK but aren't the easiest of things to interpret.
Colin
well not much point then I guess.... in limp home mode am I going to be getting 140bhp though and smooth running? When it was plugged in to the computer at the RR they siad it wasn't in safe mode.... this is why it is so bl***y frustrating!!
Podie said:
Doddze - have you got two threads running on the same topic..? 
yep..... one in general yesterday for the wider audience.... also have one running on a ford site and one running on a Cortina site (they often upgrade to the 2.9 Granada)
and so far...... Austec is looking the best option... although I have to say the car is feeling a bit quicker over the last couple of days..... perhaps with the new exhaust it is starting to clear its throat..
Hi
Just found this posting.
IMHO I would just book it in with Paul at Austek and have this conversation with him. He'll take a look at all the options. Frankly, unplugging the ECU just isnt going to solve the issue and make a difference.
Ive had the Dastek Unichip at Austek plus a few tweeks it brought up ! - throttle cable snapped on rolling road etc...(i booked her in for the half day needed & left 2.5 days later) The guys love the cars and Paul is dedicated to getting the car to run right, he's more interested in that himself.
I'm now recorded at 171hp & 224 lb/ft with no other mods and 100K+ mileage. The main benefit is the continuous power band, once you hit 2200 rpm she pulls like a train all the way to the red line with no real peaks or troughs.
Its not the cheapest mod on the S, you could always try a fuel pressure FSE valve instead but it wont give as good results.
Good luck with it (if you havnt resolved it by now)
Giles
Just found this posting.
IMHO I would just book it in with Paul at Austek and have this conversation with him. He'll take a look at all the options. Frankly, unplugging the ECU just isnt going to solve the issue and make a difference.
Ive had the Dastek Unichip at Austek plus a few tweeks it brought up ! - throttle cable snapped on rolling road etc...(i booked her in for the half day needed & left 2.5 days later) The guys love the cars and Paul is dedicated to getting the car to run right, he's more interested in that himself.
I'm now recorded at 171hp & 224 lb/ft with no other mods and 100K+ mileage. The main benefit is the continuous power band, once you hit 2200 rpm she pulls like a train all the way to the red line with no real peaks or troughs.
Its not the cheapest mod on the S, you could always try a fuel pressure FSE valve instead but it wont give as good results.
Good luck with it (if you havnt resolved it by now)
Giles
Hi guys
the car is running a lot more freely now after I have changed a few sensors back in the summer.... as in Lambda x 2, MAP, and TP as well as changing the Fuel Regulator valve.... haven't had it on a rolling road recently but is runs round to the red line very quickly indeed now whereas before it took a bit of winding up...
The car is low mileage and hadn't been used a lot before I had it... so I guess I am still running it in!! It will get a visit to Austec next year but I want to get new manifolds first..
the car is running a lot more freely now after I have changed a few sensors back in the summer.... as in Lambda x 2, MAP, and TP as well as changing the Fuel Regulator valve.... haven't had it on a rolling road recently but is runs round to the red line very quickly indeed now whereas before it took a bit of winding up...
The car is low mileage and hadn't been used a lot before I had it... so I guess I am still running it in!! It will get a visit to Austec next year but I want to get new manifolds first..
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