Ethanol in fuels

[Fez887]

So after reading the article in December edition of SPRINT re the tendency of fuels containing high levels of ethanol to rot rubber fuel hoses, resulting in possible disaster, I was wondering if anyone could suggest best fuel to run the older cars like ours on to reduce this risk? Totally understand that changing all older hoses is best prevention, but thought I would throw it out there to see who uses what fuel. Some research my end suggests Shell V Power or Esso premium 99 are best and supermarket fuels generally contain some of the higher levels of ethanol? No science behind this research, just internet browsing, and we all know how dangerous that can be!

[v8s4me]

When I looked into this last year the Esso high octane stuff was the only one claiming to have no ethanol.

[phillpot]

Gates "Barricade" fuel hose and chuck any sh#t in

[TwinKam]

v8s4me said:

When I looked into this last year the Esso high octane stuff was the only one claiming to have no ethanol.

This.
For as long as it's been around, I have only ever used Shell V-Power (prior to that, Optimax) in every ICE I possess (including motor bikes, lawn mowers, trimmers and cement mixers) as it was the best fuel available, but I have now switched over to Esso Supreme due to the ethanol issue.

[GinG15]

change the fuel hoses and you are safe....all the rest is shilly-shallying

nowadays (standard)fuels must, by law, contain a certain percentage of alcohol (like ehtanol)...you can say thank to the green-party.

by the way: the higher the ethanol rate the higher compression-ratio you can upgrade your engine.

a mate of mine has increased the horsepower of his racing BMW M3 by around 25 increasing, amongst a few other things, the compression ratio...but he is now forced to use a fuel with lots of ehtanol.

Edited by GinG15 on Thursday 2nd January 20:54

[GinG15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_by_coun...

see:chapter 4


https://www.esso.co.uk/fuels-faqs


What is the ethanol content of your fuels?
The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

Our Synergy Fuels:

Diesel
Supreme+ Diesel
Unleaded
Supreme+ Unleaded

Edited by GinG15 on Thursday 2nd January 20:29

[TwinKam]

GinG15 said:

change the fuel hoses and you are safe....all the rest is shilly-shallying

"...all the rest is shilly-shallying"? So you're 100% confident that nothing in your fuel/ inlet system is going to be affected by increasing levels of ethanol?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jfu/2014/429608/

Lengthy, but worth a read of the summary and conclusion if nothing else.

I'm aware of this issue as I run an American motorbike, with a 'plastic' fuel tank and a carburettor... with a 'plastic' float. Reports abound from the US of damage to 'plastic' fuel tanks on motorbikes, some being turned 'jelly like' by the higher ethanol content petrol sold there. What happens in the US, generally follows here a little later.

https://www.bmf.co.uk/news/show/will-ethanol-blend...

[Who me ?]

Something else to be aware of is "vapour lock" . When the temperatures go sky high, with a mechanical fuel pump , fuel in the lines can vaporise when it hits a hot fuel pump. Temperature has to be a bit extreme, but is is possible.

[anonymous-user]

This might be useful for some of you. https://aaoil.co.uk/product/driven-carb-defender/

[GinG15]

only old, non-suitable fuel hoses, are not coping with modern fuels...thats all. if your hoses have been changed in the last 5 years they are most likley already E-friendly

the tvr s has no mechanical fuel pump, nor carbs (hence no floats), no plastic fuel-tank...so everything fine.
i would not overcomplicate things....as on longterm the car-owner has to find a solution to come around all the problems involved with modern fuels.

there are also addhitives existing to eliminate the problems.....the cheapest "one" is adding a small amount of 2-stroke oil to the fuel

[GreenV8S]

GinG15 said:

only old, non-suitable fuel hoses, are not coping with modern fuels...thats all. if your hoses have been changed in the last 5 years they are most likley already E-friendly

Failing fuel hoses are a regular problem with TVRs and not all the failing hoses are old. It seems there was a batch of hose used quite widely a few years ago that was not as ethanol tolerant as it was supposed to be. I think one of the resellers in the TVR community went as far as offering a replacement, which I thought was exceedingly generous since it was not their fault.

Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 3rd January 16:11

[zombeh]

TwinKam said:

I'm aware of this issue as I run an American motorbike, with a 'plastic' fuel tank and a carburettor... with a 'plastic' float. Reports abound from the US of damage to 'plastic' fuel tanks on motorbikes, some being turned 'jelly like' by the higher ethanol content petrol sold there. What happens in the US, generally follows here a little later.

Don't stick ethanol fuel in a GRP tank without coating the inside with something first. Even at the 2% or so that's common in the UK it'll eat its way through the resin eventually.

Other than the hoses an S should be fine with it at the sort of concentrations you see in the UK, just inspect the hoses occasionally and replace with decent modern stuff when they go.

Or I suppose you could stick UL91 in but that's hard to get, rather expensive and would result in a ~20p/l duty bill on top of that if they caught you on the road

[AutoAndy]

Did I hear that no mater what hose material you use, the life is inevitably compromise by current fuel mixes?

I have a friend whose garage works on classic VWs and he said that they check all hoses as a mater of routine, yearly as they are not sure how long they last.

...or perhaps I need to drive faster to get the fuel through the system before it can do any damage...

[Teamred]

I have read that the ethanol content will be increasing from it's current 5% to 10% soon - as it already is on the continent.

[GinG15]

so the answer will be even clearer:

dont stick with expensive hocus-pocus fuels from Esso or other brands...CHANGE the hoses!!!

[TwinKam]

GinG15 said:

so the answer will be even clearer:

dont stick with expensive hocus-pocus fuels from Esso or other brands...CHANGE the hoses!!!

[motomatchless]

As Phillpot said, the only thing to do is replace the hoses with Gates Baricade.

[gruffalo]

GinG15 said:

so the answer will be even clearer:

dont stick with expensive hocus-pocus fuels from Esso or other brands...CHANGE the hoses!!!

This all day long.

STR8SIX changed all mine a few years ago to a marine grade fuel hose that is designed for use with ethanol fuels, never had an issue.

The regs around petrol in boats is much stricter than road use due to the way most marine engines operate in an enclosed area thus a greater risk of a build up of vapour and therefore fire.

All that is needed is to bring the hoses used in our cars upto date, after all lots of us do it with silicone coolant pipes so why not upgrade the fuel pipes.

[TwinKam]

I am not for one moment suggesting that you don't upgrade fuel hoses to the best that you can get/afford. That is plain clear common sense.
However, I do not believe that that alone will future-proof all vehicles against the increasing levels of ethanol in petrol; experiences in the US shows this to be a real concern, if not for S and other models of TVR, then certainly for other 'classic' vehicles, which you may also own.
What is also certain is that not all fuels are equal; so if you chose to fill your P&J with the cheapest random supermarket sh*te you can find, then crack on and enjoy the massive 'savings'. Those of us that get our hands dirty on a regular basis know the benefit of advanced fuels, and see the benefits of using it, and the failures (and associated costs) of not. Moreover, Esso have for now pegged the ethanol content at 5%, making it a no brainer against other brands at 10%.

[mentall]

TwinKam said:

Moreover, Esso have for now pegged the ethanol content at 5%, making it a no brainer against other brands at 10%.

QUOTE\ Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland. \ENDQUOTE