S1 track day setup
Discussion
Chaps
As the stripping out of my S is going quite well, I would like any advice on car set-up for track days.
Just things like tyre pressure, damper settings, ride height etc.
I understand that this may well be personal choice, but some advice from people more experienced in these matters would be a good starting point.
Cheers
As the stripping out of my S is going quite well, I would like any advice on car set-up for track days.
Just things like tyre pressure, damper settings, ride height etc.
I understand that this may well be personal choice, but some advice from people more experienced in these matters would be a good starting point.
Cheers
Ride height. As low as poss without risking going 'coil bound' or hitting bumpstops. (It will give you a bit more negative camber on the rear tyres as well, which helps reduce oversteer).
Front camber. As much negative as possible, adjustable from the top ball joint. (Reduces understeer).
Tyre pressures. Very subjective. 22 Psi works well for me though.
Perol. Optimax. Maximum 3/4 tank otherwise it sloshes onto the track.
More power. Duct cold air to the air filter, (as much as possible. Probably worth about 5 Bhp minimum).
Fast lap times. Drive smoothly, resist the temptation to hang the arse end out at every opportunity, (It overheats your tyres very quickly, and just pi55es others off when it all goes wrong).
HAVE FUN & DRIVE SAFELEY!
Jas.
>> Edited by Paceracing on Friday 27th September 23:22
Front camber. As much negative as possible, adjustable from the top ball joint. (Reduces understeer).
Tyre pressures. Very subjective. 22 Psi works well for me though.
Perol. Optimax. Maximum 3/4 tank otherwise it sloshes onto the track.
More power. Duct cold air to the air filter, (as much as possible. Probably worth about 5 Bhp minimum).
Fast lap times. Drive smoothly, resist the temptation to hang the arse end out at every opportunity, (It overheats your tyres very quickly, and just pi55es others off when it all goes wrong).
HAVE FUN & DRIVE SAFELEY!
Jas.
>> Edited by Paceracing on Friday 27th September 23:22
Paceracing
Thanks for the prompt reply, I now know what I'm doing this weekend !! negative camber,ball joints,as low as poss !!!!
As for the petrol, Not sure if the S1 will run on unleaded, never tried it, always used LRP. Any way of checking if I can use unleaded ?? I understand that they may be a engine/block stamp somewhere that would indicate hardened valve seats, or something ??
cheers
Thanks for the prompt reply, I now know what I'm doing this weekend !! negative camber,ball joints,as low as poss !!!!
As for the petrol, Not sure if the S1 will run on unleaded, never tried it, always used LRP. Any way of checking if I can use unleaded ?? I understand that they may be a engine/block stamp somewhere that would indicate hardened valve seats, or something ??
cheers
It's in the S book and in the unleaded FAQ on my website.
As for what to do yes they are the general principles but don't go mad. Get the car on a track and get someone to film it/take photos. That will tell yopu an awful lot about what the car is doing and then apply some of the changes. Negative camber is not a panacea for everything and can cause a lot of handling problems in wet and slippery conditions because the car is slower and doesn't roll as much which means the contact patch is smaller.
Also when lowering watch bump steer, and car and wheel movement. Very easy to get contact on the trcak which you don't see statically.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
As for what to do yes they are the general principles but don't go mad. Get the car on a track and get someone to film it/take photos. That will tell yopu an awful lot about what the car is doing and then apply some of the changes. Negative camber is not a panacea for everything and can cause a lot of handling problems in wet and slippery conditions because the car is slower and doesn't roll as much which means the contact patch is smaller.
Also when lowering watch bump steer, and car and wheel movement. Very easy to get contact on the trcak which you don't see statically.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
It's in the S book and in the unleaded FAQ on my website.
As for what to do yes they are the general principles but don't go mad. Get the car on a track and get someone to film it/take photos. That will tell yopu an awful lot about what the car is doing and then apply some of the changes. Negative camber is not a panacea for everything and can cause a lot of handling problems in wet and slippery conditions because the car is slower and doesn't roll as much which means the contact patch is smaller.
Also when lowering watch bump steer, and car and wheel movement. Very easy to get contact on the trcak which you don't see statically.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
As for what to do yes they are the general principles but don't go mad. Get the car on a track and get someone to film it/take photos. That will tell yopu an awful lot about what the car is doing and then apply some of the changes. Negative camber is not a panacea for everything and can cause a lot of handling problems in wet and slippery conditions because the car is slower and doesn't roll as much which means the contact patch is smaller.
Also when lowering watch bump steer, and car and wheel movement. Very easy to get contact on the trcak which you don't see statically.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
Chaps
As the stripping out of my S is going quite well, I would like any advice on car set-up for track days.
Just things like tyre pressure, damper settings, ride height etc.
I understand that this may well be personal choice, but some advice from people more experienced in these matters would be a good starting point.
Cheers
You've hit the nail on the head, it's very difficult to set somebody else's car up without knowing what use they make of the car, and how they drive it. I suppose since you're talking about stripping out the car, that you're going for an out-and-out track setup rather than a road setup? If so, Jason's settings might be a good starting point.
In general, track settings will tend to be lower, stiffer and with more negative camber. There are some problems to look out for though. As you set the car up more aggressively, you'll find more grip on good surfaces but it will get thrown around a lot more on bumpy corners. Also, you'll find that the stiff, high camber setup that gives maximum cornering grip gives terrible tramlining and kickback if you take it on the road. I also found that the stiffer setups move around far more quickly, which means you need to react far more quickly to catch the car as it starts to slide. Quite simply, the harder you set the car up the harder it is to drive fast. With the original road suspension, it might feel like it is cornering on its door handles, but at least everything happens a lot more progressively and slowly so its easier to stay in control. If you start down this route, I'd suggest you get used to the standard suspension rates first, and then if you want to improve the body control up the springs by 30% or so and get used to that. Every time you change the springs you will need to get used to the car again, and unless you're careful you'll also change the handling balance.
There are practical limits on how far you can lower the car. If you lower the front, the front wheels will bottom in the wheel arches under combined braking and cornering; if you lower the rear, the exhaust will ground out on the slightest bump under acceleration. Stiffening the springs reduces the suspension movement and helps with both these problems, so you will probably want to lower and stiffen together. Also, make sure you have bump stops that come in soon enough to stop it bottoming out, this will probably mean spacing the standard bump stops down. The final things is that as you lower the car, you'll gain negative camber quite rapidly at the front and slower at the rear, this is generally a good thing but you will need to measure and potentially adjust the camber after each ride height change. Luckily, bump steer is not a problem on these cars.
Regardless of the setup you're aiming for, there are some things that I'd do straight away: hard poly bushes, rigid anti roll bar drop links, the best dampers you can afford.
Then buy or make a camber gauge, and set to work on the spring rates, ride height and geometry. I've got a very clear picture now of what works well on the V8S, and I expect Jason has similar opinions about his S, but this is where you need to learn what suits *you*.
To give you some idea of the sort of range I'd be looking at, the normal soft road setting would be something like 200 lb springs and less than 1 degree of negative camber. A fairly aggressive track setting would be two or three times stiffer, lowered a couple of inches with maybe 2.5 degrees negative camber. This would be quite unpleasant on the road though. If you are thinking about going for something this extreme, there are several gotchas to look out for which I'll go into later if you're interested.
Hope this helps,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Just a quick point. When I use my car for track days, I tend to adjust my front camber when I get to the track, (approx -2 degrees which is the maximum I can achieve on my car) and then reset my front camber back to roughly zero camber for the road when I leave. I actually do it by sight, which is usually surprisingly accurate! Another point on driving the car on the road with loads of neg camber is that it will ruin your tyres within just a few hundred miles, (probably less than 500).
As for rear camber, this remains fixed at around -1.5 degrees on my car. I find it works well on the track and on the road, (rear tyre wear is not at all bad on the road, and gives you a little bit of 'safe' understeer for the road as well when used in conjunction with zero front camber). My rear camber came as a positive side effect of lowering my car as low as is reasonably possible, (about 2" lower than standard). I use very, very hard springs and well set up dampers to match, so bottoming out on my car is usually less now than when I had standard springs, (but not good in crappy country lanes where the middle of the road can be higher than the wheel tracks)!!!
Suspension setting is very subjective, and I wholly agree with everything Peter has said. Get to know how your car handles first before you start to develop it further. Peter and I know what works for us, but it does demand a different style of driving which probably won't suit everyone.
Jas.
>> Edited by Paceracing on Sunday 29th September 10:28
As for rear camber, this remains fixed at around -1.5 degrees on my car. I find it works well on the track and on the road, (rear tyre wear is not at all bad on the road, and gives you a little bit of 'safe' understeer for the road as well when used in conjunction with zero front camber). My rear camber came as a positive side effect of lowering my car as low as is reasonably possible, (about 2" lower than standard). I use very, very hard springs and well set up dampers to match, so bottoming out on my car is usually less now than when I had standard springs, (but not good in crappy country lanes where the middle of the road can be higher than the wheel tracks)!!!
Suspension setting is very subjective, and I wholly agree with everything Peter has said. Get to know how your car handles first before you start to develop it further. Peter and I know what works for us, but it does demand a different style of driving which probably won't suit everyone.
Jas.
>> Edited by Paceracing on Sunday 29th September 10:28
quote:
Another point on driving the car on the road with loads of neg camber is that it will ruin your tyres within just a few hundred miles, (probably less than 500).
Curiously, I haven't had this problem despite doing a very high road mileage with 2.5 deg of negative camber. I think toe-in helps with this which may be why I get away with it. I really should take your advice and adjust it between road and track but to be honest I'm too lazy!
chaps
Thanks for all the info so far, I wouldn't be using the car for road use, I was thinking of trailering it to trackdays, so the most extreme/effictive setup will be fine.
Peter, any further advice you could give would be very handy. Unfortunately just before I took the S off the road about two years ago, when I got the chim, I bought a set of AVO shocks and new springs, I now understand that these arn't that good but they are new and will have to stay for the time being, but new harder springs could be purchased.
Thanks for everything so far, I still have loads of work to do on it before it's ready for the track, but it's getting there and hopefully it will turn into a car that I will enjoy using and learning to drive successfully. I was considering selling it and buying an 7 type car as a track toy, but the S is paid for and I know what has been done and what needs to be done to sort it. I hope I have made the right choice !!
Only time will tell.
Cheers
Neil.
Thanks for all the info so far, I wouldn't be using the car for road use, I was thinking of trailering it to trackdays, so the most extreme/effictive setup will be fine.
Peter, any further advice you could give would be very handy. Unfortunately just before I took the S off the road about two years ago, when I got the chim, I bought a set of AVO shocks and new springs, I now understand that these arn't that good but they are new and will have to stay for the time being, but new harder springs could be purchased.
Thanks for everything so far, I still have loads of work to do on it before it's ready for the track, but it's getting there and hopefully it will turn into a car that I will enjoy using and learning to drive successfully. I was considering selling it and buying an 7 type car as a track toy, but the S is paid for and I know what has been done and what needs to be done to sort it. I hope I have made the right choice !!
Only time will tell.
Cheers
Neil.
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