TVR Parts Ltd S1 Brake master cylinder
Discussion
Just had the update from TVR Parts Ltd on stock coming available. They have acquired some stock of brake master cylinders as fitted to many earlier S cars. It is clear from the advert that they dont know what was fitted to early S cars and I haven't told them what we know but this appears to be the SAAB type fitting which are certainly very rare now. If they hold a LUCAS/TRW part number it would be possible to double check as we have the info archived.
Not in the market myself as mine is only a few years old but could be a godsend for someone doing a rebuild.
But before buying make sure the servo is 100% OK, no point buying the cylinder if the obsolete servo will need doing and that means changing both to Ford
http://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-s2...
Not in the market myself as mine is only a few years old but could be a godsend for someone doing a rebuild.
But before buying make sure the servo is 100% OK, no point buying the cylinder if the obsolete servo will need doing and that means changing both to Ford
http://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-s2...
Hi Richard,
the price seems quite expensive for this item, even though I understand that it's quite rare. The master cylinder is OK on my car, however I would be interested to know about the Ford option which you have mentioned.
I'm thinking of making a "TVR S modifications" list and adding this to the alternative parts list file and this could be a good place to start.
In the future, I'll probably start a new thread about this to collect all ideas.
Tim
the price seems quite expensive for this item, even though I understand that it's quite rare. The master cylinder is OK on my car, however I would be interested to know about the Ford option which you have mentioned.
I'm thinking of making a "TVR S modifications" list and adding this to the alternative parts list file and this could be a good place to start.
In the future, I'll probably start a new thread about this to collect all ideas.
Tim
I think the correct fitment is for the hotter mk3 Fiestas with ABS. They're the ones that have the two big ports/two small ports, because Ford used to use these s
tty 'things' (I forget the official name) that screwed into the cylinders and gave the 'effect' of ABS. Those are what needed the bigger bore thread, hence why we often have 2x M10 and 2x M12 unions.
If my thinking is correct (which it may well prove not to be) you can fit the non-ABS one if you're happy to change the hard line to the smaller M10 union. I don't think there's a difference with the piston bore size, or anything like that.
I think I converted mine to run four small ports, but I've never looked into it any more than that as at Southways I just use Racetech for parts (you run a business, you need your arse covered by warranties!)
edit to add: The 'things' that screw into the cylinders for the ABS models weren't the balance valves for the rear brakes (before someone suggests it!) Those were used on Mondeos (mk1) and then TVR used them on the facelifted Griffith and Chimaera; very early examples have the standard S proportioning valve, mounted at the back by the diff, whereas most models (94 onwards) had these little drum cylinder things, which acted as a restriction in the circuit. I fitted one to my S1, and have fitted them to some of the other S' we've overhauled at Southways. You can hide them in the transmission tunnel as they're only the size of a battery, and do away with that thing under the bonnet.
tty 'things' (I forget the official name) that screwed into the cylinders and gave the 'effect' of ABS. Those are what needed the bigger bore thread, hence why we often have 2x M10 and 2x M12 unions.If my thinking is correct (which it may well prove not to be) you can fit the non-ABS one if you're happy to change the hard line to the smaller M10 union. I don't think there's a difference with the piston bore size, or anything like that.
I think I converted mine to run four small ports, but I've never looked into it any more than that as at Southways I just use Racetech for parts (you run a business, you need your arse covered by warranties!)
edit to add: The 'things' that screw into the cylinders for the ABS models weren't the balance valves for the rear brakes (before someone suggests it!) Those were used on Mondeos (mk1) and then TVR used them on the facelifted Griffith and Chimaera; very early examples have the standard S proportioning valve, mounted at the back by the diff, whereas most models (94 onwards) had these little drum cylinder things, which acted as a restriction in the circuit. I fitted one to my S1, and have fitted them to some of the other S' we've overhauled at Southways. You can hide them in the transmission tunnel as they're only the size of a battery, and do away with that thing under the bonnet.
Edited by Kitchski on Thursday 26th April 14:01
Kitchski said:
You can hide them in the transmission tunnel as they're only the size of a battery
.......... 
Kitchski said:
had these little drum cylinder things, which acted as a restriction in the circuit.
I looked at using one of those but there were so many variants when I looked at Fords rather than pay TVR prices, different restrictions for different weight cars? Presumably there are a fixed resistance whereas the "ball up a ramp" thing in the V6 cars is (at least in theory) progressive?
Old thread on the subject....... Brake bias valve
Edited by phillpot on Friday 27th April 09:25
phillpot said:
Kitchski said:
You can hide them in the transmission tunnel as they're only the size of a battery
.......... 
phillpot said:
I looked at using one of those but there were so many variants when I looked at Fords rather than pay TVR prices, different restrictions for different weight cars? Presumably there are a fixed resistance whereas the "ball up a ramp" thing in the V6 cars is (at least in theory) progressive?
Old thread on the subject....... Brake bias valve
It's probably due to cars with differing weights, tyre sizes, disc sizes etc. What helps me is the fact I can get the part number off the Chimaera item, so I know which one works on the S Old thread on the subject....... Brake bias valve
(If you've got rear discs, of course)I think they still contain a ball but it's seated in a spring, so the bore and strength of the spring act as the restriction. That's just what I was told when I worked at Ford though. I've never taken one apart myself.
Edited by Kitchski on Friday 27th April 10:05
Kitchski said:
I think the correct fitment is for the hotter mk3 Fiestas with ABS.
The original m/cyl on mine has part number 2015-3?? on it. I can't make out the last two digits. The rwo front ports are slightly larger OD than the rear ones...
It's hard to believe Ford wouldn't have used this unit on lots of other models.
v8s4me said:
The original m/cyl on mine has part number 2015-3?? on it. I can't make out the last two digits. The rwo front ports are slightly larger OD than the rear ones...
It's hard to believe Ford wouldn't have used this unit on lots of other models.
That might be a date stamp. If a m/cyl has a part number on, it's usually stamped into the mounting face at the flange end. In any case, that's an 'atfermarket' style cylinder, not the OE cast one, so it may not tell us much anyway.It's hard to believe Ford wouldn't have used this unit on lots of other models.
There is definitely a difference between non-ABS and ABS master cylinders on a mk3 Fez though, and I'm 90% sure it's due to the differing port sizes. Yours has got M12 on the front, and M10 on the rear, and I think the M12 thread is to take these little screw in things that gave the effect of ABS enough for Ford to market it as ABS, but in reality it wasn't actually ABS.
I can't think why TVR would have used it, as a quick Google shows the piston was 22mm on both units. It was probably just because they could get hold of the ABS unit cheaper, due to suppliers having surplus stock (as not many mk3 Fiestas were fitted with 'ABS').
As I say, this is all subject to the fact I'm harking back to my days in a Ford dealership in 2006, so there's a chance I'm wrong somewhere
Kitchski said:
....That might be a date stamp. ...
Well I bought the car in 2006 and that was the m/cyl that was on it then, so it won't be 2015. I've scraped away all the peeling paint and the surface of the cylinder looks rough like a cast one but the mounting bracket is definitely pressed steel. This is the m/cyl which came with the s/h servo I bought in 2010...
Now this one is definitely all steel, and has the larger ports to the front like the one that was on the car when I bought it. The bore size which has always been accepted as being correct for these is 22.2mm.
The number on the plastic tag is 6561 07 44 GY.
I'm not sure if any of this helps or just add to the confusion.
Edited by v8s4me on Friday 27th April 14:47
Edited by v8s4me on Friday 27th April 15:38
The alternative m/cyl listed for the Fiesta is this one
If you cross-reference the TRW number (PMH 975) and search on the Ford number (89FB2140CA, 6173278) you can find THIS. If this is the correct part then two units for £137.38 sounds like much better value.
If it's the other one (PMH 974) then there are several on eBay for just over £50. EG. Both have a 22.2mm bore and the same pipe fittings.
If you cross-reference the TRW number (PMH 975) and search on the Ford number (89FB2140CA, 6173278) you can find THIS. If this is the correct part then two units for £137.38 sounds like much better value.
If it's the other one (PMH 974) then there are several on eBay for just over £50. EG. Both have a 22.2mm bore and the same pipe fittings.
Edited by v8s4me on Friday 27th April 15:44
v8s4me said:
The alternative m/cyl listed for the Fiesta is this one
If you cross-reference the TRW number (PMH 975) and search on the Ford number (89FB2140CA, 6173278) you can find THIS. If this is the correct part then two units for £137.38 sounds like much better value.
Certainly looks right! It's just whether you want the hassle of having to sell one, or keeping a spare in the garage for the next two decades to save about £50 I guess If you cross-reference the TRW number (PMH 975) and search on the Ford number (89FB2140CA, 6173278) you can find THIS. If this is the correct part then two units for £137.38 sounds like much better value.
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