Hot start issues?
Discussion
Looking for some ideas.
Had an immobiliser fitted last week by Carl Baker.
Drove home (a long way!), parked on the road. Tried to move car a few minutes later - wouldn't start. I was definitely disarming the immobiliser, I could hear the fuel pump prime, but starter wasn't spinning.
Half an hour later, it started no problem and ran fine, so I put it away.
Just went for a drive now. Got home, killed the engine and tried to restart - same thing. You can hear the solenoid click, but no starter. 10 minutes later it starts without issue.
I want to nip this in the bud as I am supposed to be going on holiday with the car in a couple of weeks!
I trust Carl and am sure there is nothing wrong with what he has done. Certainly I want to exhaust other possibilities before going all the way back to see him!
It could be pure coincidence that it started at the same time the immobiliser was fitted. Carl did mention that where the yellow connector was and had been replaced with heatshrink sleeving, the connections looked as if they might need redoing. Possibly disturbing it while fitting the immobiliser key slot affected it?
I have the car booked in for a service at Taylor TVR next Tuesday so if it's beyond my DIY skills I would ideally like to get them to sort it.
So, what could be the causes of a hot start problem on an S2? Thanks in advance!
Had an immobiliser fitted last week by Carl Baker.
Drove home (a long way!), parked on the road. Tried to move car a few minutes later - wouldn't start. I was definitely disarming the immobiliser, I could hear the fuel pump prime, but starter wasn't spinning.
Half an hour later, it started no problem and ran fine, so I put it away.
Just went for a drive now. Got home, killed the engine and tried to restart - same thing. You can hear the solenoid click, but no starter. 10 minutes later it starts without issue.
I want to nip this in the bud as I am supposed to be going on holiday with the car in a couple of weeks!
I trust Carl and am sure there is nothing wrong with what he has done. Certainly I want to exhaust other possibilities before going all the way back to see him!
It could be pure coincidence that it started at the same time the immobiliser was fitted. Carl did mention that where the yellow connector was and had been replaced with heatshrink sleeving, the connections looked as if they might need redoing. Possibly disturbing it while fitting the immobiliser key slot affected it?
I have the car booked in for a service at Taylor TVR next Tuesday so if it's beyond my DIY skills I would ideally like to get them to sort it.
So, what could be the causes of a hot start problem on an S2? Thanks in advance!
NiceCupOfTea said:
Looking for some ideas.
Had an immobiliser fitted last week by Carl Baker.
Drove home (a long way!), parked on the road. Tried to move car a few minutes later - wouldn't start. I was definitely disarming the immobiliser, I could hear the fuel pump prime, but starter wasn't spinning.
Half an hour later, it started no problem and ran fine, so I put it away.
Just went for a drive now. Got home, killed the engine and tried to restart - same thing. You can hear the solenoid click, but no starter. 10 minutes later it starts without issue.
I want to nip this in the bud as I am supposed to be going on holiday with the car in a couple of weeks!
I trust Carl and am sure there is nothing wrong with what he has done. Certainly I want to exhaust other possibilities before going all the way back to see him!
It could be pure coincidence that it started at the same time the immobiliser was fitted. Carl did mention that where the yellow connector was and had been replaced with heatshrink sleeving, the connections looked as if they might need redoing. Possibly disturbing it while fitting the immobiliser key slot affected it?
I have the car booked in for a service at Taylor TVR next Tuesday so if it's beyond my DIY skills I would ideally like to get them to sort it.
So, what could be the causes of a hot start problem on an S2? Thanks in advance!
If you can hear the solenoid clicking but no starter, I reckon that`s the problem area, maybe just dirty connections on the starter or it`s about to give up. I hope this helps and hope it`s a simple fix for you.Had an immobiliser fitted last week by Carl Baker.
Drove home (a long way!), parked on the road. Tried to move car a few minutes later - wouldn't start. I was definitely disarming the immobiliser, I could hear the fuel pump prime, but starter wasn't spinning.
Half an hour later, it started no problem and ran fine, so I put it away.
Just went for a drive now. Got home, killed the engine and tried to restart - same thing. You can hear the solenoid click, but no starter. 10 minutes later it starts without issue.
I want to nip this in the bud as I am supposed to be going on holiday with the car in a couple of weeks!
I trust Carl and am sure there is nothing wrong with what he has done. Certainly I want to exhaust other possibilities before going all the way back to see him!
It could be pure coincidence that it started at the same time the immobiliser was fitted. Carl did mention that where the yellow connector was and had been replaced with heatshrink sleeving, the connections looked as if they might need redoing. Possibly disturbing it while fitting the immobiliser key slot affected it?
I have the car booked in for a service at Taylor TVR next Tuesday so if it's beyond my DIY skills I would ideally like to get them to sort it.
So, what could be the causes of a hot start problem on an S2? Thanks in advance!
I had similar problems with my S3 and suspected the immobiliser. However, when I checked the chassis and engine earths I initially found the 2 chassis studs on the driver's side were in poor condition (no star washers, covered in paint and dirt, loose nuts etc.) as well as the engine stud on the same side. Cleaning these up and fitting new star washers seemed to cure the problem until last week when it did the same thing again. This time I discovered another chassis stud on the passenger side on the cross-member near the starter motor and found that the cable tag was half covered in insulation tape. I cleaned this all up and fitted star washers again and so far have had no further problems.
Mine was a reasonably well sorted S3 when I bought it but the chassis earth points were all in pretty bad condition and not really doing their job. It's certainly the first thing to check in my experience - and only took a few minutes once the chassis studs had been located.
GB
Mine was a reasonably well sorted S3 when I bought it but the chassis earth points were all in pretty bad condition and not really doing their job. It's certainly the first thing to check in my experience - and only took a few minutes once the chassis studs had been located.
GB
Just had a quick look through the Steve Heath book - unfortunately it doesn't seem to mention earthing points, and I can't work out where the starter motor is located.
Are the earths accessible from the engine bay? Whereabouts is the starter motor itself.
I do find it strange that it started playing up the day the immobiliser was fitted. Do the symptoms not fit with disturbing the wiring behind the cowling?
Are the earths accessible from the engine bay? Whereabouts is the starter motor itself.
I do find it strange that it started playing up the day the immobiliser was fitted. Do the symptoms not fit with disturbing the wiring behind the cowling?
On the S3 there are 2 earth studs on the drivers side accessible from the engine bay. The earth lead from the battery is fixed to and earth stud on the cross member next to the battery and the engine earth strap goes from around mid-position on the engine block to a chassis stud close to the brake servo.
The starter motor is on the passenger side low down on the engine towards the rear. There is a chassis earth stud on the cross member right next to the starter where the wires come up from the starter solenoid - again accessible from the engine bay.
I found all these studs by tracing the wires from the battery, engine and starter motor so if they are in a different place on your S2 then you'll need to do the same - look for the thick cables and trace them back to their earthing points.
I suppose that it is possible that a wire behind the cowling has come loose whilst fitting the immobiliser but then why would it only make itself evident when the engine is hot? The chassis earth studs are fairly close to the manifold so they would certainly be affected by heat from them.
HTH
GB
The starter motor is on the passenger side low down on the engine towards the rear. There is a chassis earth stud on the cross member right next to the starter where the wires come up from the starter solenoid - again accessible from the engine bay.
I found all these studs by tracing the wires from the battery, engine and starter motor so if they are in a different place on your S2 then you'll need to do the same - look for the thick cables and trace them back to their earthing points.
I suppose that it is possible that a wire behind the cowling has come loose whilst fitting the immobiliser but then why would it only make itself evident when the engine is hot? The chassis earth studs are fairly close to the manifold so they would certainly be affected by heat from them.
HTH
GB
Many thanks, will have a look
oldgeebee said:
I suppose that it is possible that a wire behind the cowling has come loose whilst fitting the immobiliser but then why would it only make itself evident when the engine is hot?
I agree, it does seem odd. My reasoning is that these wires were disturbed (along with some in the passenger footwell) but none of the earthing points were touched, and also that Carl commented on some of the joints being a bit too flexible, and also this thread in which phillpot and bobhon had issues with the wiring through the ignition switch breaking down over time.Yellow connector replaced in the very early days of my ownership the work was done by a professional auto electrician quality of his work seems really good however it's possible that those connections might need redoing the symptoms very similar to the yellow connector problems but you're hearing the solenoid click so possibly it might be a starter motor issue
I’ve had a similar problem; on one of the hottest days [just that one] this year having driven for some time I stopped briefly and when I went to start nothing. Now my immobiliser is a bit temperamental so my initial reaction was this had finally given up the ghost but after checking it turned out to be a sticking starter solenoid and a few taps later I was off. This has reoccurred once or twice on very warm days but once the engine has been allowed cools it start first time.
Just had a quick root around - is this the starter? (Just behind the engine mount on the near side of the car)
Traced the +ve feed from the battery and it looks OK. The bit at the top looks like an earth strap to the engine/box and it doesn't look in great shape to me, but can't really get to it. Not sure what the other (smaller) wire is...
Where is the solenoid?
Traced the +ve feed from the battery and it looks OK. The bit at the top looks like an earth strap to the engine/box and it doesn't look in great shape to me, but can't really get to it. Not sure what the other (smaller) wire is...
Where is the solenoid?
Phillpot, do you have a part no./source for those starters? Can't find out anywhere what part it's supposed to be. Can you get the solenoids separately?
I have looked at the wiring diagram from the Steve Heath bible and I am thoroughly confused. In addition to the +12v thick cable and obvious ground, there are supposedly 2 other connections - goes off to the ECU via a cold start resistor & the coil, the other to a green hot start module (what is that and could it be a problem?). Which wire goes back to the ignition switch?
I have looked at the wiring diagram from the Steve Heath bible and I am thoroughly confused. In addition to the +12v thick cable and obvious ground, there are supposedly 2 other connections - goes off to the ECU via a cold start resistor & the coil, the other to a green hot start module (what is that and could it be a problem?). Which wire goes back to the ignition switch?
That is just a general picture of a starter motor, yours should be similar but with only two mounting bolts. probably common to Ford granadas or V6 capris of that era? A good motor Factors should be able to match it or there are still a few places around that will repair/recondition yours.
Replacing a solenoid is I believe a bit of a fiddle, maybe best left to the more experienced?
this could be the one, I know it says 2.8 but TVR carried on using the Type 9 gearbox from 2.8 engined Fords with the 2.9 engine. A 2.9 granada for example will more likely have a 3 bolt starter.
The wiring diagram is based around an early 2.8 engined S1, you won't have a green thing or a cold start resistor.
Generally the problem is either the starter/soleniod is worn out or the feed that operates the soleoid comes via the ignition switch, various connectors and maybe an alarm curcuit so over time resistance builds up at these points and you end up with low voltage at the solenoid and then it goes "click" instead of "clonk" and no start!
As mentioned above, this is avery common problem on Chimearas, all the heat from exhaust does nothing to help!
On mine I put a 40amp relay (relay/solenoid, they're both just electrical switches) near the starter, a live from main starter feed to one side and a wire from other side to operate solenoid. The existing cable now just has to switch that relay, minimal amps so resistance in wiring not a problem.
Replacing a solenoid is I believe a bit of a fiddle, maybe best left to the more experienced?
this could be the one, I know it says 2.8 but TVR carried on using the Type 9 gearbox from 2.8 engined Fords with the 2.9 engine. A 2.9 granada for example will more likely have a 3 bolt starter.
The wiring diagram is based around an early 2.8 engined S1, you won't have a green thing or a cold start resistor.
Generally the problem is either the starter/soleniod is worn out or the feed that operates the soleoid comes via the ignition switch, various connectors and maybe an alarm curcuit so over time resistance builds up at these points and you end up with low voltage at the solenoid and then it goes "click" instead of "clonk" and no start!
As mentioned above, this is avery common problem on Chimearas, all the heat from exhaust does nothing to help!
On mine I put a 40amp relay (relay/solenoid, they're both just electrical switches) near the starter, a live from main starter feed to one side and a wire from other side to operate solenoid. The existing cable now just has to switch that relay, minimal amps so resistance in wiring not a problem.
Edited by phillpot on Sunday 5th August 17:56
Thanks guys - the car is into Taylor TVR for a service on Tuesday so I think I will leave it to them to sort.
Until then I have popped a breaker bar in the boot to give the solenoid a smack the next time it does it - would at least tell me that that is the problem!
What I reckon though is that the extra resistance of the immobiliser in the ignition circuit has just tipped it over the mark and when it is hot it's too much.
Will give Carl a ring tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Until then I have popped a breaker bar in the boot to give the solenoid a smack the next time it does it - would at least tell me that that is the problem!
What I reckon though is that the extra resistance of the immobiliser in the ignition circuit has just tipped it over the mark and when it is hot it's too much.
Will give Carl a ring tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Bump! NiceCupOfTea - I assume by now (I hope) you have this sorted!! My S2 has just got through its MOT (with a bit of cash persuasion), but I now have the problem described above. The battery was pretty old so I've replaced it, but same issue. Starts no problem from cold, but stop it in a petrol station and it needs a push start to get it purring again. Even when we tried jumping it (I was thinking the new battery might also be naff) it wouldn't start!!
I'm away from the car at the moment, but will take a look at the points described above. Would be good to have any advice from anyone who has had, and solved this problem!!
Cheers
Andrew
I'm away from the car at the moment, but will take a look at the points described above. Would be good to have any advice from anyone who has had, and solved this problem!!
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew, I changed the solenoid on mine but not for any other reason than one of the connectors got damaged (or was already damaged) when I changed the engine mounts. It's straight forward enough if I managed it and I can let you have details of where I sourced the replacement at reasonable cost and great service.
Max
Max
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