Brake Master Cyl/Servo
Discussion
I have now got to the stage in my rebuild where I need to sort out the bake master cylinder. The servo is OK and works fine, or it did; prior to the rebuild, has only some light rusting. The master cylinder is just weeping slightly where it joins the servo, so needs to be sorted out.
I've read the excellent article on replacing the Saab servo and cylinder with the Ford set up, and the Saab set up is not the prettiest of installations. But I cant help thinking that the easiest solution is to just replace or repair the Saab cylinder.
I think that I have got to the stage where I know the options but cant really decide.
1. Replace or refurb the Saab cylinder (cheap and quick, will probably see me out), not pretty but does the job !
2. Change to Ford set up (easy to do but a little confused about actual parts source, second hand could be dodgy, and no better than current situation/new is expensive). Mod tidies up engine bay but not better than current set up.
I few independant thoughts would be appreciated...
I guess that I could source a new cylinder from 'Big Red' and be done with it quickly.
Or, I could have a look on eBay and see what is available to convert to the Ford set up. The extra work is no problem, but am concerned about the identity and quality of parts available.
Regards
Graham
I've read the excellent article on replacing the Saab servo and cylinder with the Ford set up, and the Saab set up is not the prettiest of installations. But I cant help thinking that the easiest solution is to just replace or repair the Saab cylinder.
I think that I have got to the stage where I know the options but cant really decide.
1. Replace or refurb the Saab cylinder (cheap and quick, will probably see me out), not pretty but does the job !
2. Change to Ford set up (easy to do but a little confused about actual parts source, second hand could be dodgy, and no better than current situation/new is expensive). Mod tidies up engine bay but not better than current set up.
I few independant thoughts would be appreciated...
I guess that I could source a new cylinder from 'Big Red' and be done with it quickly.
Or, I could have a look on eBay and see what is available to convert to the Ford set up. The extra work is no problem, but am concerned about the identity and quality of parts available.
Regards
Graham
I bought a new old stock Ford servo from ebay quite cheap and a new mastecylinder from TVR car parts, quite expensive rather than buy a second hand (possibly cr
p) second hand from ebay. BUT unsure about continuing availability of both bits now.
i suggest you contact neil at TVR CarPart and ask what available and then see what avaiable on the net. Personally I would go the Ford route tidier and greter availabilityof bits . SAAB bit are rocking horse poo now and will only get worse!!
p) second hand from ebay. BUT unsure about continuing availability of both bits now.i suggest you contact neil at TVR CarPart and ask what available and then see what avaiable on the net. Personally I would go the Ford route tidier and greter availabilityof bits . SAAB bit are rocking horse poo now and will only get worse!!
Edited by Gerald-TVR on Monday 13th February 19:46
Recently purchased a brand new MC from my local factors for £70 +vat.
They also had a servo sitting on their "unknown" items box which was the correct servo but had an input shaft of approx 12 inches (must have been off a van) which I purchased for £70+vat. Managed to get the shaft cut down and the old coupling fixed to it by an extremely clever gentleman.
All told a good day's work.
They also had a servo sitting on their "unknown" items box which was the correct servo but had an input shaft of approx 12 inches (must have been off a van) which I purchased for £70+vat. Managed to get the shaft cut down and the old coupling fixed to it by an extremely clever gentleman.
All told a good day's work.
Ford have discontinued the servo towards the end of last year, so unless you're lucky and your local Ford dealer happened to have one already in stock, you'll need to find another supplier.
I understand that TVR Carparts managed to source a few from europe, I don't know if any of the other TVR suppliers have them. There are servos available if you search on-line, but they are about £100 more expensive than the Ford price (was).
I understand that TVR Carparts managed to source a few from europe, I don't know if any of the other TVR suppliers have them. There are servos available if you search on-line, but they are about £100 more expensive than the Ford price (was).
you could give this guy a call...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mk3-Ford-Fiesta-XR2-Brak...
Just looked on this site https://safe.brakeparts.co.uk/loadnew.html and they parts are still available new but Jeez are they expensive... £56 for the MC and £308 for the servo
theres bound to be more if you search
good luck
K
edited to remove glaring mistake - thanks Andrew
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mk3-Ford-Fiesta-XR2-Brak...
Just looked on this site https://safe.brakeparts.co.uk/loadnew.html and they parts are still available new but Jeez are they expensive... £56 for the MC and £308 for the servo
theres bound to be more if you search
good luck
K
edited to remove glaring mistake - thanks Andrew
Edited by ketvrin on Friday 17th February 12:18
ketvrin said:
Just looked on this site https://safe.brakeparts.co.uk/loadnew.html and they parts are still available new but Jeez are they expensive... £56 for the MC and £308 for the servo
...which is approx £100 more than the Ford price (was)...kevtvrin said:
then theres this on fleabay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FIESTA-MK3-BRAKE-MA...
Except that's not the right part for the S - you need the 22.2 mm bore. My S3 was fitted with a Ford KA servo and master cylinder by the previous owner. I was none the wiser till Norman (GeraldTVR) pointed it out. Have thought of changing it but as it was new when fitted and works fine i've left it. I have seen them on ebay listed as "fitted to later TVR's," but I dont know which model they were fitted to.
Maybe we will neeed another alternative as supply of the original ones seems to be drying up.
Rob.
Maybe we will neeed another alternative as supply of the original ones seems to be drying up.
Rob.
The Ford Fiesta servo is the same as used on the Griffith & Chimaera, so I guess the TVR specialists will need to come up with something. It will originate now from TRW, who have taken over the Lucas/Girling stuff. It's well worth keeping on top of rust proofing the servo in this situation.
TVR Power are showing the servo as £POA. They list the servo for the Speed 6 cars (Tuscan, Sagaris etc) for £99.99 + VAT. Maybe the long term solution is to adapt to this later servo. It looks similar, but I don't know how close the actual dimensions are.
Edit to add... From Griffinr's post, maybe then it is the Ford Ka servo used on the Speed 6 cars.
TVR Power are showing the servo as £POA. They list the servo for the Speed 6 cars (Tuscan, Sagaris etc) for £99.99 + VAT. Maybe the long term solution is to adapt to this later servo. It looks similar, but I don't know how close the actual dimensions are.
Edit to add... From Griffinr's post, maybe then it is the Ford Ka servo used on the Speed 6 cars.
Edited by jwoffshore on Friday 17th February 12:17
tvrgit said:
Except that's not the right part for the S - you need the 22.2 mm bore.
Bugger ! you are correct again (of course)...when I looked at the brake parts site previously I'm sure I saw that the servo they listed for the XR2i MK3 was the same as various other MK3 fiestas and vans but later MK fiestas too... would be worth comparing what the servos on that site are listed for then go elsewhere to find the second hand parts...
I would look myself but patently cannot read now
K
Kev
They all had the same servos - but the master cylinder was different for the wee weedy shopping Fiestas, TVRs need the big beefier manly versions (ok, it's only 1.6mm extra bore size, but that little bit extra can make all the difference, so I'm told during any domestic disagreement...)
They all had the same servos - but the master cylinder was different for the wee weedy shopping Fiestas, TVRs need the big beefier manly versions (ok, it's only 1.6mm extra bore size, but that little bit extra can make all the difference, so I'm told during any domestic disagreement...)
Although Ford may have discontinued the part, the aftermarket suppliers still have stock. The part is not of course made by Ford. TRW was my supplier via Car Component Company, Blackburn.
Can I appeal for one thing though, when the original detailed research was done on this (by me, subsequently added to by Norman) one of the important issues that came up was to find a servo and master cylinder with EXACTLY the same PERFORMANCE. There are other servos and cylinders which will fit, but unless they displace exactly the same amount of fluid for the same amount of pedal travel, they are not a like for like modification and the performance difference might be different in some circumstances. There may even be insurance implications. We did check with TRW that the RECOMMENDED set up did perform exactly the same, and was therefore an acceptable mod.
Can I appeal for one thing though, when the original detailed research was done on this (by me, subsequently added to by Norman) one of the important issues that came up was to find a servo and master cylinder with EXACTLY the same PERFORMANCE. There are other servos and cylinders which will fit, but unless they displace exactly the same amount of fluid for the same amount of pedal travel, they are not a like for like modification and the performance difference might be different in some circumstances. There may even be insurance implications. We did check with TRW that the RECOMMENDED set up did perform exactly the same, and was therefore an acceptable mod.
I was going to say sorry for kicking this all off again but much very valuable work has already been done by members of this site and its quite correct that longer term we need to find a suitable and cost effective solution. I have been quoted (for new parts) between £380 to over £500 which is somewhat out of all proportion.
On a positive note...... from my own short term perspective I wouldnt have been looking at this just yet as my servo appears to be OK, it was just that my brake master cylinder is slightly weeping. As this was the case and just to keep me going short term I have managed to get hold of a couple of repair kits for the SAAB master cylinder. I bought a couple of them, because if the bore is scored/worn they may last a year or two before giving out, the pedal was not creeping so could be unlikely. At £5.58 each I thought it a good short term solution. If anyone needs one I am about 8 miles from the supplier, but they will post anyway, it was from the Parts for Saab company listed in FAQ's.
I will be trying to work towards a more permanent solution once I have my rebuild out of the way. The Master cylinder does appear to be available from various sources but the servo is the real big ticket issue !
Regards
Graham
On a positive note...... from my own short term perspective I wouldnt have been looking at this just yet as my servo appears to be OK, it was just that my brake master cylinder is slightly weeping. As this was the case and just to keep me going short term I have managed to get hold of a couple of repair kits for the SAAB master cylinder. I bought a couple of them, because if the bore is scored/worn they may last a year or two before giving out, the pedal was not creeping so could be unlikely. At £5.58 each I thought it a good short term solution. If anyone needs one I am about 8 miles from the supplier, but they will post anyway, it was from the Parts for Saab company listed in FAQ's.
I will be trying to work towards a more permanent solution once I have my rebuild out of the way. The Master cylinder does appear to be available from various sources but the servo is the real big ticket issue !
Regards
Graham
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