What to upgrade to from a Canon EOS300D?
Discussion
Hi All,
I have a Canon EOS300D that I bought on ebay for £100 or so and a couple of Tamron lenses that all in all, cost me very little. I just wanted to see if I would get on with a DSLR, and it turns out that I do. Every photo I have taken has allowed me to learn a lot more, and I find myself doing a lot of manual operations these days instead of just relying on auto.
However, I have started to find the limits of this camera and lens combo, and would like something a little more up to date. The thing that spurred me on was being told that the very high ISO settings on modern DSLRs are much less grainy than the ISO 1600 on my 300D, My 300D is also a bit dirty on the sensor and the final irritation is that I have to compensate for something in the camera that isn't aligned right if I want a perfectly straight horizon.
Anyway, the obvious choice is for a slightly updated version of the same camera, such as the 400D, 450D, 500D or maybe even the 1000D... but what the hell is the difference? I think the best change I can make is to dump the Tamron lenses which are quite poor when you get to know them. They are slow to focus and lack sharpness, so I will definitely compliment a new camera with better quality optics from Canon.
Any advice, opinion, ideas much appreciated!
I have a Canon EOS300D that I bought on ebay for £100 or so and a couple of Tamron lenses that all in all, cost me very little. I just wanted to see if I would get on with a DSLR, and it turns out that I do. Every photo I have taken has allowed me to learn a lot more, and I find myself doing a lot of manual operations these days instead of just relying on auto.
However, I have started to find the limits of this camera and lens combo, and would like something a little more up to date. The thing that spurred me on was being told that the very high ISO settings on modern DSLRs are much less grainy than the ISO 1600 on my 300D, My 300D is also a bit dirty on the sensor and the final irritation is that I have to compensate for something in the camera that isn't aligned right if I want a perfectly straight horizon.
Anyway, the obvious choice is for a slightly updated version of the same camera, such as the 400D, 450D, 500D or maybe even the 1000D... but what the hell is the difference? I think the best change I can make is to dump the Tamron lenses which are quite poor when you get to know them. They are slow to focus and lack sharpness, so I will definitely compliment a new camera with better quality optics from Canon.
Any advice, opinion, ideas much appreciated!
which lenses, and are you taking pictures potholing that you need such high ISO?
I went from 350D to 40D due to bigger screen/ruggedness still have Tamron 70-300mm and 90mm Macro (former could do with upgrade 90mm is sensational lens imho).
Rough guide to Canon
xxxxD entry level you can skip this
xxxD enthusiast level
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
xD pro-camera/prices
majority are crop lenses (so 100mm lens ~160mm compared to full frame)
if you are considering starting again don't forget to try a Nikon or two and see what suits.
bit more info on what you are taking will help the gurus on here steer you
I went from 350D to 40D due to bigger screen/ruggedness still have Tamron 70-300mm and 90mm Macro (former could do with upgrade 90mm is sensational lens imho).
Rough guide to Canon
xxxxD entry level you can skip this
xxxD enthusiast level
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
xD pro-camera/prices
majority are crop lenses (so 100mm lens ~160mm compared to full frame)
if you are considering starting again don't forget to try a Nikon or two and see what suits.
bit more info on what you are taking will help the gurus on here steer you
I would look at something like a 400 or 450D 2nd hand, or even something like a 40D if you can stretch your budget a little more.
Big differences between newer and older models are speed of start up and general response. Faster and more accurate auto focus. Much bigger and clearer LCD screen on the back for reviewing the photos you have taken. Improved frame rate and better construction with the 40D (great if you shoot wildlife or any action stuff). Battery life has also improved considerably, with the 40D being good for 500 - 800 shots between charges, depending on the type of shots taken, flash use etc.
As you already mention, huge improvements have been made in the noise department, with ISO 800 to 160 being very usable (depending on print size) on these models with a bit of noise reduction applied.
If you really want to splash out, then the 7D model has great noise levels at higher ISOs, very fast response, built in horizon in the viewfinder (no more adjusting the horizon on the PC). The 18MP sensor would show up the shortcomings of the Tamron lenses though. Unless you regularly print larger than A2, then you might not need all those pixels, and the 10MP offered by say the 400D would be more than enough. I certainly printed quite a few 20"x30" prints that I have hanging on the wall in my house taken with my 400D that I'm still very happy with - even looking at them Close up.
You might want to try some better lenses first though. Something like the Canon 70-200 F4L is a great lens. Sharp, very fast, well built. Available 2nd hand for around £375 - £400 but you'll get your money back should you ever decide to sell and trade up. The 70-300IS lens is also very good and offers better reach and IS, but not quite so fast at focussing and not quite so well built.
It might be worthwhile using one of those programs that analyse the focal lengths of all your photos, so you can see which ranges you use most frequently and this should be your first priority when looking at which lens to get. No point in buying a superb 24mm prime lens if you rarely shoot anything at that focal length.
John
Big differences between newer and older models are speed of start up and general response. Faster and more accurate auto focus. Much bigger and clearer LCD screen on the back for reviewing the photos you have taken. Improved frame rate and better construction with the 40D (great if you shoot wildlife or any action stuff). Battery life has also improved considerably, with the 40D being good for 500 - 800 shots between charges, depending on the type of shots taken, flash use etc.
As you already mention, huge improvements have been made in the noise department, with ISO 800 to 160 being very usable (depending on print size) on these models with a bit of noise reduction applied.
If you really want to splash out, then the 7D model has great noise levels at higher ISOs, very fast response, built in horizon in the viewfinder (no more adjusting the horizon on the PC). The 18MP sensor would show up the shortcomings of the Tamron lenses though. Unless you regularly print larger than A2, then you might not need all those pixels, and the 10MP offered by say the 400D would be more than enough. I certainly printed quite a few 20"x30" prints that I have hanging on the wall in my house taken with my 400D that I'm still very happy with - even looking at them Close up.
You might want to try some better lenses first though. Something like the Canon 70-200 F4L is a great lens. Sharp, very fast, well built. Available 2nd hand for around £375 - £400 but you'll get your money back should you ever decide to sell and trade up. The 70-300IS lens is also very good and offers better reach and IS, but not quite so fast at focussing and not quite so well built.
It might be worthwhile using one of those programs that analyse the focal lengths of all your photos, so you can see which ranges you use most frequently and this should be your first priority when looking at which lens to get. No point in buying a superb 24mm prime lens if you rarely shoot anything at that focal length.
John
Chicken Pox said:
which lenses, and are you taking pictures potholing that you need such high ISO?
I went from 350D to 40D due to bigger screen/ruggedness still have Tamron 70-300mm and 90mm Macro (former could do with upgrade 90mm is sensational lens imho).
Rough guide to Canon
xxxxD entry level you can skip this
xxxD enthusiast level
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
xD pro-camera/prices
majority are crop lenses (so 100mm lens ~160mm compared to full frame)
if you are considering starting again don't forget to try a Nikon or two and see what suits.
bit more info on what you are taking will help the gurus on here steer you
Ok, a few examples of why a more "modern" ISO (read higher) might be useful... I went from 350D to 40D due to bigger screen/ruggedness still have Tamron 70-300mm and 90mm Macro (former could do with upgrade 90mm is sensational lens imho).
Rough guide to Canon
xxxxD entry level you can skip this
xxxD enthusiast level
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
xD pro-camera/prices
majority are crop lenses (so 100mm lens ~160mm compared to full frame)
if you are considering starting again don't forget to try a Nikon or two and see what suits.
bit more info on what you are taking will help the gurus on here steer you
I took this picture at my friend's wedding, and in the dark of the church, the graininess killed this, but there was nothing else I could do to get the shot. Aperture was maxed-out and flash was out of the question: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/4961318590_a85...
I also tried taking a photo of some bats last week. I got the damned things in frame and got the shot, but the picture was just so grainy it was junk. My colleague said that he can shoot at ISO 3200 (with a 4D I think) and still gets less grain.
I'm off to the rainforest in a month's time, and again, it can be extremely dark under the canopy and there will be lots of wildlife to shoot, so high-ISO is good.
As for lenses, I have a Tamron 18-200mm which is really versatile and can be used for almost anything, and a 70-300mm with macro. Both are pretty useful lenses, but suffer from the same problem of lack of sharpness (example here: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4755419867_69f... and a dreadfully slow and inaccurate autofocus. My father's Canon 70-300mm lens locks onto focus in an instant and the shake-reduction has its uses too. The Canon lens costs 3x more than the Tamron, but I can see why.
EDIT to say: I don't really lust after more pixels, just better images on screen.
Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 13th September 11:48
Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 13th September 11:49
JohnS said:
I would look at something like a 400 or 450D 2nd hand, or even something like a 40D if you can stretch your budget a little more.
Big differences between newer and older models are speed of start up and general response. Faster and more accurate auto focus. Much bigger and clearer LCD screen on the back for reviewing the photos you have taken. Improved frame rate and better construction with the 40D (great if you shoot wildlife or any action stuff). Battery life has also improved considerably, with the 40D being good for 500 - 800 shots between charges, depending on the type of shots taken, flash use etc.
As you already mention, huge improvements have been made in the noise department, with ISO 800 to 160 being very usable (depending on print size) on these models with a bit of noise reduction applied.
If you really want to splash out, then the 7D model has great noise levels at higher ISOs, very fast response, built in horizon in the viewfinder (no more adjusting the horizon on the PC). The 18MP sensor would show up the shortcomings of the Tamron lenses though. Unless you regularly print larger than A2, then you might not need all those pixels, and the 10MP offered by say the 400D would be more than enough. I certainly printed quite a few 20"x30" prints that I have hanging on the wall in my house taken with my 400D that I'm still very happy with - even looking at them Close up.
You might want to try some better lenses first though. Something like the Canon 70-200 F4L is a great lens. Sharp, very fast, well built. Available 2nd hand for around £375 - £400 but you'll get your money back should you ever decide to sell and trade up. The 70-300IS lens is also very good and offers better reach and IS, but not quite so fast at focussing and not quite so well built.
It might be worthwhile using one of those programs that analyse the focal lengths of all your photos, so you can see which ranges you use most frequently and this should be your first priority when looking at which lens to get. No point in buying a superb 24mm prime lens if you rarely shoot anything at that focal length.
John
I could just about stretch to a ebay 40D, but a 450D from ebay would allow me to spunk more on a lens, which I think would be useful. Cheers for those words.Big differences between newer and older models are speed of start up and general response. Faster and more accurate auto focus. Much bigger and clearer LCD screen on the back for reviewing the photos you have taken. Improved frame rate and better construction with the 40D (great if you shoot wildlife or any action stuff). Battery life has also improved considerably, with the 40D being good for 500 - 800 shots between charges, depending on the type of shots taken, flash use etc.
As you already mention, huge improvements have been made in the noise department, with ISO 800 to 160 being very usable (depending on print size) on these models with a bit of noise reduction applied.
If you really want to splash out, then the 7D model has great noise levels at higher ISOs, very fast response, built in horizon in the viewfinder (no more adjusting the horizon on the PC). The 18MP sensor would show up the shortcomings of the Tamron lenses though. Unless you regularly print larger than A2, then you might not need all those pixels, and the 10MP offered by say the 400D would be more than enough. I certainly printed quite a few 20"x30" prints that I have hanging on the wall in my house taken with my 400D that I'm still very happy with - even looking at them Close up.
You might want to try some better lenses first though. Something like the Canon 70-200 F4L is a great lens. Sharp, very fast, well built. Available 2nd hand for around £375 - £400 but you'll get your money back should you ever decide to sell and trade up. The 70-300IS lens is also very good and offers better reach and IS, but not quite so fast at focussing and not quite so well built.
It might be worthwhile using one of those programs that analyse the focal lengths of all your photos, so you can see which ranges you use most frequently and this should be your first priority when looking at which lens to get. No point in buying a superb 24mm prime lens if you rarely shoot anything at that focal length.
John
if your looking at buying on ebay it may also be worth having a look at http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
when I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
when I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
andye30m3 said:
if your looking at buying on ebay it may also be worth having a look at http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
when I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
Good call. Ebay prices for a 40D appear to be £400+ for body-only, and that shop lists a 30D for £300 and a 50D for £550, so I assume a 40D when they have one in will be around £400 too.when I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
EDIT: LCE have 40Ds for £450 too. Hmm. http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondhand_results.asp
Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 13th September 12:13
andye30m3 said:
if your looking at buying on ebay it may also be worth having a look at http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
when I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
got my s/hand 40D from there toowhen I was looking prices where similar and in many cases cheaper than ebay but you get a warranty
I've got a 450D which I really like. I'm tempted to save up for a second hand 7D, but the 450D is good enough that I'd rather spend a bit longer saving so that I can keep the 450D as a second body rather than having to Ebay it to put towards the 7D.
Where I've spent more than enough to pay for a 7D is on additional lenses. These do make a big difference, and more importantly they will all work with a 7D should I ever save up enough, and I can now cover 10mm up to 400mm, with f2.8 between 28-200mm and also have full macro capability.
Whereabouts in London are you? If you can get down towards Epsom, you're welcome to try out my 450D, or also some of my lenses on your 300D if you like so you can take a bit more of an informed decision.
Where I've spent more than enough to pay for a 7D is on additional lenses. These do make a big difference, and more importantly they will all work with a 7D should I ever save up enough, and I can now cover 10mm up to 400mm, with f2.8 between 28-200mm and also have full macro capability.
Whereabouts in London are you? If you can get down towards Epsom, you're welcome to try out my 450D, or also some of my lenses on your 300D if you like so you can take a bit more of an informed decision.
That's very kind of you, and I live in SW London too, but I won't waste your time, since I have a friend who has recently bought a 450D and they usually let you play with them in Jessops too, but once again, thank you very much for teh kind offer.
Having looked around extensively today, I am leaning towards a 2nd hand 40D with a couple of posh lenses. There are some excellent 2nd hand camera shops that are almost as cheap as ebay, so I think that is the way to go.
Having looked around extensively today, I am leaning towards a 2nd hand 40D with a couple of posh lenses. There are some excellent 2nd hand camera shops that are almost as cheap as ebay, so I think that is the way to go.
I might sell my camera to go towards a new car as i don't use it a huge amount.
40D, 70-200mm F4L, 50mm f1.8 and 2x2gb 2x4gb Extreme III Sandisk cards.
What do you guys think its worth. I purchased the camera 2nd hand from MPB Photographic the rest i purchased new. Its all in good condition. What do you guys think it would be worth?
40D, 70-200mm F4L, 50mm f1.8 and 2x2gb 2x4gb Extreme III Sandisk cards.
What do you guys think its worth. I purchased the camera 2nd hand from MPB Photographic the rest i purchased new. Its all in good condition. What do you guys think it would be worth?
Chicken Pox said:
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
Except the new 60D with its plastic body 
Mr Gear said:
but what the hell is the difference?
I found this site the other week. It does spec level comparisons better than dpreview (although dpreview is *the* place to go for a detailed review):http://snapsort.com/
For lens options I always use Fred Miranda but go with the averages rather than pay too much attention individual's love or hate comments:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/index.php?cat=4...
Possible an odd tangent...
One small thing to check when upgrading from the 300D to another '100'D series is make sure you find one to hold and feel first.
I have longish fingers which fitted the 300D fine, however they 'bottom out' on every other 100 series ever since (canon shrunk the grip after the 300D for size reasons, but the new size no longer feels comfortable in my hand).
If you do have large hands the '10'D series may be a better bet.
One small thing to check when upgrading from the 300D to another '100'D series is make sure you find one to hold and feel first.
I have longish fingers which fitted the 300D fine, however they 'bottom out' on every other 100 series ever since (canon shrunk the grip after the 300D for size reasons, but the new size no longer feels comfortable in my hand).
If you do have large hands the '10'D series may be a better bet.
BlueMR2 said:
Mr Gear said:
From what I have learned today, the body is worth £350-400 if it's boxed with instructions. Dunno about the lenses, but the 50mm lens appeals to me too. What brand is the 200mm zoom one?
The 70-200mm F4L is one of Canons own L range of lenses.xrrr said:
Chicken Pox said:
xxD enthusiast level with metal cases/limited sealing
Except the new 60D with its plastic body Mr Gear said:
but what the hell is the difference?
I found this site the other week. It does spec level comparisons better than dpreview (although dpreview is *the* place to go for a detailed review):http://snapsort.com/
For lens options I always use Fred Miranda but go with the averages rather than pay too much attention individual's love or hate comments:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/index.php?cat=4...
oh well I won't have to worry about that for a few years.Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff