Canon 60D announced. First impressions?
Discussion
Looks pretty good. Not much in it between this and the 7D (except for the price of course).
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/ca...
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/ca...
Totally underwhelmed.
They've moved from Compact Flash to SD, which will mean new cards for 20/30/40/50D "updaters". It still has the same old 9 point AF system which shares the same processor with all the other functions. The burst rate has dropped, they've removed AF Microadjust, the body is smaller and made of plastic etc etc.
As for being close to the 7D...errr right.
They've moved from Compact Flash to SD, which will mean new cards for 20/30/40/50D "updaters". It still has the same old 9 point AF system which shares the same processor with all the other functions. The burst rate has dropped, they've removed AF Microadjust, the body is smaller and made of plastic etc etc.
As for being close to the 7D...errr right.
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Thursday 26th August 20:04
heyho said:
More like a deliberate move to put some space between it and the 7D.
But then why put HD video on it? What are the differences between this and a 550d? Its certainly not a Camera i would update to from my current 50d. I'm really disapointed, this would feel more like a step down from the 50d, lower frame rate, plastic construction. The only advantage would be 18mp over 15, and is that really very important?Any why put a bloody rotating LCD screen on, turns it into a toy rather then a real tool. That would actually put me off buying one, not draw me in.
jimmy156 said:
heyho said:
More like a deliberate move to put some space between it and the 7D.
But then why put HD video on it? What are the differences between this and a 550d? Its certainly not a Camera i would update to from my current 50d. I'm really disapointed, this would feel more like a step down from the 50d, lower frame rate, plastic construction. The only advantage would be 18mp over 15, and is that really very important?Any why put a bloody rotating LCD screen on, turns it into a toy rather then a real tool. That would actually put me off buying one, not draw me in.
I agree with the rest of your points though. The 50D is a cracking buy now at under £600. The only reason i dumped mine is that i've always wanted Canon to turn out a 1.6x body with Customisable AF. The 7D is that camera and it's bloody good.
MonkeyHanger said:
jimmy156 said:
heyho said:
More like a deliberate move to put some space between it and the 7D.
But then why put HD video on it? What are the differences between this and a 550d? Its certainly not a Camera i would update to from my current 50d. I'm really disapointed, this would feel more like a step down from the 50d, lower frame rate, plastic construction. The only advantage would be 18mp over 15, and is that really very important?Any why put a bloody rotating LCD screen on, turns it into a toy rather then a real tool. That would actually put me off buying one, not draw me in.
I agree with the rest of your points though. The 50D is a cracking buy now at under £600. The only reason i dumped mine is that i've always wanted Canon to turn out a 1.6x body with Customisable AF. The 7D is that camera and it's bloody good.
.A quick look at the specs of 550d, 60d and 7d seems to show that they have effectivly lowered the 60d in the range from where the 50d sat. I guess that if they had brought out a 60d that was better then the 50d, it would essentially be a 7d.
Edited by jimmy156 on Thursday 26th August 21:13
jimmy156 said:
Yeah i guess thats the case, i dont suppose the fact that i dont care if my dSLR has it wont stop Canon putting it on all future cameras .
A quick look at the specs of 550d, 60d and 7d seems to show that they have effectivly lowered the 60d in the range from where the 50d sat. I guess that if they had brought out a 60d that was better then the 50d, it would essentially be a 7d.
I don't need video on the 7D either. I've messed about with it a few times but it's not something i would use on a regular basis. .A quick look at the specs of 550d, 60d and 7d seems to show that they have effectivly lowered the 60d in the range from where the 50d sat. I guess that if they had brought out a 60d that was better then the 50d, it would essentially be a 7d.
Canon could have thrown the articulated screen and a few bells & whistles onto a 50D-sized body and called it a 60D. The lack of the seperate AF Chip, slower drive speed and customisable AF would have been enough to seperate it from the 7D, all IMHO of course
Warehouse express are showing the 60D at £1099. You can pick up a 7D for £1129 from RGB photo !
MonkeyHanger said:
heyho said:
More like a deliberate move to put some space between it and the 7D.
I think they actually meant to call it the 600D
It certainly sounds more 600D range than 60D range.
Having read the specs and looked at the previews (dpreview, Bob Atkins) a couple of times I think they just may have pitched it quite well. Perhaps not for the 40D/50D users but it's a rather useful mix of the best bits from 550D/50D/7D, some of which are a bit out of sync within a model range, and positioned it right in the middle of the market.
Let's face it, many feel that the 40D is in some ways better than the 50D, or at least as good, so the relatively small (in terms of overall sales) group of 40/50D users was always going to be difficult to satisfy with a 60D that had a lesser spec. than the 7D. Why would they want to go there - a 50D with video? How attractive would that be? (See comments above .... )
Now the 7D has been very popular and so is likely to be profitable so they might be in a position to leave that running a while and slot in another APS-C sensored model between thr 7D and the 1D4 whilst letting the price slide a way - but not too far 'cos as we all know and see around us every day, in a recession the only way the charges for things should go is up. Somehow people will still pay, or so it seems.
I have 2 Canon Pro-sumer cameras with articulated lenses, one an 8Mp Pro 1 (an L spec camera) which is still excellent as a camera though slow and 'noisy' by today's standards. The articulated lens is a great thing to have - and no I hardly ever shoot video. I rarely remember that I can.
How about in camera RAW editing, image re-sizing, lens CA, distortion and vignette correction, WB edit and so on? Not interesting to anyone?
The screen from the 550D - is that bad news? the 550D has the best quality screen currently offered.
50D focus system? Seems reasonable for a 60D. It's not every day the manufacturers introduce a new AF system.
7D exposure metering system. I don't have a problem with that.
Part of the 7D's wireless exernal flash management system included.
Lighter construction ... good, in my view, so long as it does not fall apart. Time will tell.
Slower burst rate? Enough of a difference to make a real difference? How often?
Video will come with everything. Prices will adjust eventually - but for now see my observations above. They want you to think you are paying for video but really you are paying for margin.
The only obvious operational downside, especially for 40/50D owners, would seem to be the new multifunction controller and loss of joystick. Whilst that could be a deal breaker the other options still seems to offer a lot. I guess the full reviews, when available, will tell us more.
Let's face it, many feel that the 40D is in some ways better than the 50D, or at least as good, so the relatively small (in terms of overall sales) group of 40/50D users was always going to be difficult to satisfy with a 60D that had a lesser spec. than the 7D. Why would they want to go there - a 50D with video? How attractive would that be? (See comments above ....
)Now the 7D has been very popular and so is likely to be profitable so they might be in a position to leave that running a while and slot in another APS-C sensored model between thr 7D and the 1D4 whilst letting the price slide a way - but not too far 'cos as we all know and see around us every day, in a recession the only way the charges for things should go is up. Somehow people will still pay, or so it seems.
I have 2 Canon Pro-sumer cameras with articulated lenses, one an 8Mp Pro 1 (an L spec camera) which is still excellent as a camera though slow and 'noisy' by today's standards. The articulated lens is a great thing to have - and no I hardly ever shoot video. I rarely remember that I can.
How about in camera RAW editing, image re-sizing, lens CA, distortion and vignette correction, WB edit and so on? Not interesting to anyone?
The screen from the 550D - is that bad news? the 550D has the best quality screen currently offered.
50D focus system? Seems reasonable for a 60D. It's not every day the manufacturers introduce a new AF system.
7D exposure metering system. I don't have a problem with that.
Part of the 7D's wireless exernal flash management system included.
Lighter construction ... good, in my view, so long as it does not fall apart. Time will tell.
Slower burst rate? Enough of a difference to make a real difference? How often?
Video will come with everything. Prices will adjust eventually - but for now see my observations above. They want you to think you are paying for video but really you are paying for margin.
The only obvious operational downside, especially for 40/50D owners, would seem to be the new multifunction controller and loss of joystick. Whilst that could be a deal breaker the other options still seems to offer a lot. I guess the full reviews, when available, will tell us more.
Edited by LongQ on Friday 27th August 18:11
I've been getting closer to buying a 7d to replace my long serving 400d for the last few months.
I like the idea of a more substantive camera with better ergonomics, better metering, better high ISO performance and the clever AF. I'm not into video at the moment but would like to have it there to experiment with. I'm a bit put off the 7d by the countless posts I see on numerous forums by people who sound like they're at the same point of the ability/knowledge curve as me who seem dissapointed with their 7d as a consequence of the very high density sensor exposing previously unnoticed flaws in technique/lenses and requiring people to relearn their post processing workflow to get results at least equal to the camera they've upgraded from.
If the 60d had been the 50d with the current sensor 7d's AF and video I'd have bought it. As it is I'm not interested and still want a 7d.
I like the idea of a more substantive camera with better ergonomics, better metering, better high ISO performance and the clever AF. I'm not into video at the moment but would like to have it there to experiment with. I'm a bit put off the 7d by the countless posts I see on numerous forums by people who sound like they're at the same point of the ability/knowledge curve as me who seem dissapointed with their 7d as a consequence of the very high density sensor exposing previously unnoticed flaws in technique/lenses and requiring people to relearn their post processing workflow to get results at least equal to the camera they've upgraded from.
If the 60d had been the 50d with the current sensor 7d's AF and video I'd have bought it. As it is I'm not interested and still want a 7d.
Pints said:
..... but it's now going to very much depend on how they price it. Given they're calling it the 60d, I suspect it'll be priced higher than it ought to if it was going to be challenging for the 550d type of market share.
Well, after the early adopters have taken up initial supplies the street price seems to fall to about 3/4 of the list price. The current Pre-order price from the retailers seems to be RRP but with around £100 or so of goodies included. I not that the 1099 RRP number applies whether we are talking Dollars, Euro or Sterling so there seems to be room for flexibility.The 7D body is typically selling at around £1200 now, a little less from some (UK) sources.
The 50D has already been dropped form the Canon UK web site list of cameras and a quick check on Warehouse Express web site shows no listing for body only 50Ds. Based on the kit prices a body could be expected for about £600 to 700. Last time I looked the 50D and 550D prices were not far apart on many price lists.
So if we arrume that laucnch price will, within a year or maybe less, drop by about 1/3rd assuming there are no other influences (economic collapse/recovery, exchange rate fluctuation and so on) the 60D seems to be on the same price level as the 50D and sits right between the 550D and 7D in almost all respects.
Given the state of the market in terms of technology flux (notably the introduction of video whether wanted or not) as a clear stepping stone between Prosumer and Pro the 60D seems well thought through even if for some of us it disappoints in some areas.
Time will tell. Canon will have the next strategic move in hand already and it may well mean spreading the 7D market a little, perhaps introducing a slightly smaller lower priced, weatherproofed, etc., version of the 7D functionality and a higher spec. body to fill the gap between 7D and 1D4 (or 1D5 if they continue to push that up market.
Much will depend on that the other players do in the meantime and what other technologies Canon might introduce from their video development. Note that they now have a Pro level broadcast quality Video camera using CF cards. Seems they now have wo watch Sony as well as Nikon.
Photokina soon - no doubt there will be more announcements in the pipeline.
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