Have I picked a decent camera for a noobie?

[RichTbiscuit]

Morning all, long time lurker but decided to pop on and try to get some advice from you very experienced folks on here.

I've loved taking photos everywhere I go for at least the past 7-8 years, mostly with a point and shoot camera. I recently went on holiday and popped in past Gibraltar to take advantage of the duty free shopping. Liking the idea of upgrading to a slightly better camera I chose this;

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/specificati...

The Sony DSC-H20 which to me at the time was perfect. Was a decent size, seemed to have everything i need as the next step up. Having done more research over the past few months I'm dissapointed at both the lack of RAW exporting and interchangable lenses. Although as I understand I can get filters and addons to it?

I've been reading the guides here; http://digital-photography-school.com/digital-phot...

Which seems to be pretty good, if a little basic. I'd love to get more out of this camera before I manage to persuade the missus to let me upgrade to a 3/4 SLR or perhaps a MFT size camera before out honeymoon in Sep.

So basically, is this a decent enough camera to continue on with while learning and is there any really good guides out there I can read through and absorb to get the most out of it?

Thanks for your time and here's a few shots i've taken with it so far. All ripped from my Facebook account as I don't have the originals on me atm.











Last shot is either Neptune or Jupiter rising. Advice, criticism, all welcome!

Cheers,

Rich.

[Simpo Two]

I'd say that if you want to learn about photogrpahy, then you should buy a DSLR, full-stop. It doesn't have to be the latest model, it can even be second-hand, but it will be a tool rather than a toy and the limiting factor will be you not the camera - which gives you headroom to learn and practice. A DSLR system can also grow and expand as you do.

[Gemm]

I've never used H-20 but I have played with older model (H-2, I think), and if it's at the same standard, then it should be a decent camera. Ok, it didn't have the flexibility and speed of DSLR, but it did take very good images. You should be able to get plenty out of it.

[jimmy306]

Hi rich,

Looking at the spec of your camera it appears that it does have semi manual modes (aperture priority / shutter priority) so i assume it probably has a full manual mode as well. This means it will allow you to get used to controlling these parameters and exposing your pictures correctly, and allow you to get creative with slow shutter speeds etc. You will also be able to play with metering modes and learn when it is best to spot metre or pattern metre, how you can use metering to take silhouette pictures etc. There will be many guides online about this, and about controlling depth of field, freezing action using fast shutter speeds, as well as techniques such as panning to create motion blur and so on, all of which are possible on your camera. However if you ask specific questions on here i'm sure people, including myself, would be happy to answer them. This is great for learning the basics of photography before you move on to much more expensive dSLR cameras. Your camera also covers a fairly large focal length (38 to 380mm)giving you good possibilities for composing different types of shot.

What type of photography is is that you want to get into mostly? This may define the type of camera/lens combo you get next. You mention a micro four thirds camera as your likely next step, and while these have interchangable lenses there are only a very limited range of lenses available, and i would advise that you get an entry levels dSLR (canon 1000d/450d for example) as this will probably be cheaper and open you up to a far wider range of possibilties.

The on MAJOR drawback in my opinion with this type of camera (and i know 'cos i have one!) is horrible high noise levels in low light (i.e high ISO) and this is visible in the night shot that you have posted. I would recommend that if you can on your camera you set the maximum ISO to around 400, and try your best to keep it as 200 or below. It is possible to take good pictures with a "bridge" camera, despite what some people may say, below are a couple of examples of pics i have taken with my camera (panasnic DMC FZ28), and like i said if you want any tips or advice just ask! I am always happy to talk cameras and photography with people

London on new years (see the noise is visible here too!)



Robin

Edited by jimmy306 on Friday 22 January 11:03

[RichTbiscuit]

Thanks for the replies guys!

A lot of what I've done so far has been pretty basic as far as digging into the manual settings. I've only just really started to look into setting up the camera manually. A few of the guides i've read have given me a much better understanding of even the basic functions or aperture, exposure and shutter speed and I can now go away and start experimenting. Even what i've learned through this morning's browsing and reading gives me so much to run away and play with I'm dying to get home and go experimenting (work offshore so no playing till monday when i get home).

So far it's very much a fledgling hobby, certantly beyond the scale of the point and shoot i've been doing for a long time now. Composition-wise i've always been fascinated by finding the abstract within nature and our impact on it. Or random little details in a structure that I think are fascinating. I was in York Minster a few months ago in one of the most amazing buildings i've been inside, but there I was focusing on a tiny space of stone pillar that had some vivid stained glass shining on it. Either that or finding shapes in the spaces around me that frame other objects or views beyond. Probably sounds pretty pretentious for a complete noobie! I guess here are some examples of my favourite shots. These were taken in Spain late last year about 1 day after I bought the camera actually.







And one from Nottingham in November.



I think i've been looking at 3/4 purely because of the convenience of having a smaller camera. Also since I'm a bit of a gadget nerd cameras like the PEN really appeal to me. If I got a DSLR I think the missus would complain more than she does already about me taking photos everywhere we go, and it's not like the Sony takes up a huge amount of space. Wait till she sees me with a DSLR, tripod, and filters and lenses etc! Plus when casually visiting someplace or going on holiday, i don't really want to be 'that camera guy' that you always see.

I did have a few more questions actually.

When you buy an DSLR body, do they have a standard universal fitting on the body or are you limited to certain lense manufacturers? Same goes for filters I guess.

How much post-processing is done when you see these amazing shots?

I'm sure I will pester you with more questions soon!

Thanks,

Rich.

[Simpo Two]

RichTbiscuit said:

Wait till she sees me with a DSLR, tripod, and filters and lenses etc! Plus when casually visiting someplace or going on holiday, i don't really want to be 'that camera guy' that you always see.

You can do a great deal without a tripod, and also filters (which hardly take up much room anyway!). As for times when you don't want a a large camera, well, take the one you have.

RichTbiscuit said:

When you buy an DSLR body, do they have a standard universal fitting on the body or are you limited to certain lense manufacturers? Same goes for filters I guess.

Generally each maker has its own bayonet (twist and lock) system, but there's an excellent choice of lenses from independents like Sigma, Tokina and Tamron, who make lenses for most if not all mounts. There are also loads of good s/h ones on eBay - nothing wrong in a s/h lens if it helps keep costs down. Filters are just a thread diameter. Stop stressing about filters, they're the least of your worries!

RichTbiscuit said:

How much post-processing is done when you see these amazing shots?

Depends on the orginal photo and what you want to achieve. There's no reason why you can't shoot JPGs straight out of the box if you want, until you feel ready to proceed.

Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 22 January 13:00

[jimmy306]

RichTbiscuit said:

[/b]Composition-wise i've always been fascinated by finding the abstract within nature and our impact on it. Or random little details in a structure that I think are fascinating.[/b]

In that case i would recommend an entry level dSLR with a macro lens. You can get the entry level canon 1000d for £329 and a canon 50mm macro lens for £233) so around £550 in total. This is around the same price as the olpympus pen camera, and has vastly larger opportunities for progression

RichTbiscuit said:

I think i've been looking at 3/4 purely because of the convenience of having a smaller camera ... i don't really want to be 'that camera guy' that you always see.

The entry level SLR's aren't that much biger then the 3/4 systems, and as for being "that camera guy" i think you have been taken in by some clever olympus marketing

The rest of your questions simpo two answers as well as i could, i reccomend you get photoshop elements for around £50, this will allow you to do almost any post processing that you wish to do, and negates the need for he very expensive creative suit.



Like this!

James

[RichTbiscuit]

Thanks for all the advice folks! Much appreciated.

As luck would have it just received this email;

"I am pleased to advise that ******* is to make a payment of £500 to all contractor staff who were core members of our offshore team during 2009. Please refer to the attached document."

Now to only persuade the missus that it's a good idea to let me spend it on a camera!

Rich.

edit: is there an equivalent Sony for about this price? Would save me having to purchase further memory cards etc.

Edited by RichTbiscuit on Friday 22 January 17:29

[Simpo Two]

RichTbiscuit said:

As luck would have it just received this email;

"I am pleased to advise that ******* is to make a payment of £500 to all contractor staff who were core members of our offshore team during 2009. Please refer to the attached document."

It's a fact of physical law that the shortest definable time period is the time between money arriving, and needing something that it will allow you to buy

RichTbiscuit said:

Now to only persuade the missus that it's a good idea to let me spend it on a camera!

How about 'Darling, I've bought you this lovely camera for your birthday!'

• Slap*.

'But the red of the strap matches your eyes so beautifully!'

• Slap*

'But it's better than a vacuum cleaner isn't it?

• Slap*

There is another way. Buy her a gift of equal value

[RichTbiscuit]

Bought her an Audi TT and a house, reckon I can bring them up in casual conversation after I mention the bonus? :P

So, given a budget of £600 what would you (as in the collective not just the last poster!) buy? Sony would be preferable if there's a decent option.

[Scott330ci]

RichTbiscuit said:

Bought her an Audi TT and a house, reckon I can bring them up in casual conversation after I mention the bonus? :P

So, given a budget of £600 what would you (as in the collective not just the last poster!) buy? Sony would be preferable if there's a decent option.

40d or a 50d if budget allows

[Simpo Two]

RichTbiscuit said:

Bought her an Audi TT and a house, reckon I can bring them up in casual conversation after I mention the bonus? :P

Blimey, well logic suggests you could go out and get a nice Leica or two - but female logic is different from ours...

RichTbiscuit said:

So, given a budget of £600 what would you (as in the collective not just the last poster!) buy? Sony would be preferable if there's a decent option.

Interesting question. Well in fact I think you'd be better off getting more bang for your buck by looking at the s/h market - you'll get a more capable body and a better lens or two.

As for make, it depends. If you think this equipment purchase will be the last, then choose from any brand. If however you think your hobby will grow and you want as many options as possible, the usual advice is to head for Canon or Nikon - there is simply much more to choose from and all the independent lens makers make lenses for them, which keeps prices down.

I only know Nikon so I'd suggest something like a D80, 18-70mm or 18-135mm lens and perhaps a 70-300mm if you need longer, or a Speedlight SB-600 depending on requirements. You may well find somebody selling off a complete kit with bag and all the bits. Ironically, you won't really know what you want until you've bought something and get some flying hours in. The great thing about DSLRs is that you can buy and sell bits and evolve as you go along

[jimmy306]

Scott330ci said:

RichTbiscuit said:

Bought her an Audi TT and a house, reckon I can bring them up in casual conversation after I mention the bonus? :P

So, given a budget of £600 what would you (as in the collective not just the last poster!) buy? Sony would be preferable if there's a decent option.

40d or a 50d if budget allows

budget certainly wouldn't allow a 50d, these are circa £800 body only, you might get a 40d and a lens for £600 but i think you would be pushing it, they hold their value very well!

If you want to stick with sony, and this isn't a bad thing, they do make some good dSLR's. They also benefit from having image stabilization in the body so you dont need to buy expensive IS lenses! for a budget of £600 you could get a Sony Alpha A550 with kit lens for 611. I dont know what the kit lenses are like from sony however, so you may consider the camera down from the A550, the A500 with a 30mm macro lens , which would be equivalent to a 50mm lens due to the crop factor on an APS-C sensor, and comes to around £640. A macro lens would be great for the type of photography you describe, and are generally good for normal and portraiture etc too.

Edited by jimmy306 on Friday 22 January 18:07

[Chicken Pox]

RichTbiscuit said:

Thanks for all the advice folks! Much appreciated.

As luck would have it just received this email;

"I am pleased to advise that ******* is to make a payment of £500 to all contractor staff who were core members of our offshore team during 2009. Please refer to the attached document."

Now to only persuade the missus that it's a good idea to let me spend it on a camera!

Rich.

Edited by RichTbiscuit on Friday 22 January 17:08

just tell her the payment is £500 in Jessops vouchers...

[Simpo Two]

Ooh, clever...

[RichTbiscuit]

I like the cut of your jib dear sir

[RichTbiscuit]

So, ive pretty much settled on the Sony A500 (or the A550 if i can save a few more pennies) which pretty much falls in budget.

£519.95 with an 18-55mm lens.

And also Sony DT 30mm f2.8 SAM Macro Lens which I can pick up from for £149

Any other cheap bits of kit I should pick up as well?

Edited by RichTbiscuit on Saturday 23 January 08:41

[Simpo Two]

RichTbiscuit said:

And also Sony DT 30mm f2.8 SAM Macro Lens which I can pick up from for £149

Just checked this www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-sony-dt-30mm-f2-8-sam... and it says: 'For extremely clear and life-size close-ups, the 1:1 magnification ratio and 2cm minimum focusing distance makes it ideal for flowers, insect and small subject photography.'

Well the 1:1 part is good but don't be fooled by the 2cm working distance (they sell it as a benefit)- it will make it very hard to use, partly because the camera/lens will start blocking the light, but also any critters you want to photograph will take flight long before you get that close.

Of course if your subjects are inanimate and you can conrol lighting, then fair enough, it's a very affordable macro lens, but I thought I'd point the pitfalls out. I found a 60mm macro a little too close and now use a 105mm.

[Skodaku]

RichTbiscuit said:

So, ive pretty much settled on the Sony A500 (or the A550 if i can save a few more pennies) which pretty much falls in budget.

£519.95 with an 18-55mm lens.

And also Sony DT 30mm f2.8 SAM Macro Lens which I can pick up from for £149

Any other cheap bits of kit I should pick up as well?

Edited by RichTbiscuit on Saturday 23 January 08:41

I have a Sony A300 plus the DT 18-55 and DT 18-250 lenses, which I'm very happy with. Lots of lenses are available for Sony-fit should you need them and, because the shake-reduction is built into the body you don't need lenses with it built-in..............and that leaves the door open to some nice old, (and cheaper), Konica-Minolta AF lenses. Three things I've found useful are : a spare battery, (not essential as battery life is good), a cheap remote release - cheap as chips on e-Bahgum and they work, and have a look at a Gorillapod SLR Zoom mini-tripod. So easy to carry around and sooooooo versatile. The SLR Zoom version handles my A300 + 18-250 without any problem whatsoever...............which is why it's called, er.................you get the idea.

Enjoy the Alpha; I'm certain you won't be disappointed.

[RichTbiscuit]

So that macro lens has its drawbacks then. How about a compromised, there's this for round about £250

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di Macro 1:1 Lens [272E] (Sony Mount)

http://www.b4utele.com/products/all/all/35000950.h...

What are the Tamron lenses like? Decent enough quality?