This photgraphing in public (London) - couple of experiences

[Buffalo]

Just had a nice few days in London, photographing the snowy sites. Then took the GF to Somerset House for her to skate around a while. Whilst there, I took a few shots of her, and was asked at least twice if I had friends or family on the ice. Fair enough I suppose, but it did make me feel a bit self-conscious and although I tried not to let it bother me, it did a bit... Even before being asked, I was careful to ensure that only my GF was in the shots as much as possible, which was a shame in some ways as there were a number of opportunities for some lovely shots of other peoople having a lovely time.

However, later on that day, we were standing on Oxford Street loaded up with shopping bags and looking at the tube map when someone walked up to us loosed off two or three shots using a flash gun of and ran off into the crowd. Now my GF was wearing a rather daft fake 'furry' short jacket - perhaps this fella thought she was someone famous..? maybe we signified something that he wanted to portray, but his manner unsettled her and i must say left me questioning to myself if it was to lead onto something further later in the evening...

I very much dislike the way this country seems to be going with photography in public places and was quite nervous at taking the camera around with me, although i was quietly reassured to see lots of other cameras out and about. I disliked being made to feel like a social outcast at the ice skating - but at the same time now being on the receiving end of the experience I feel quite p'd off at being photo'd without consent. Not necessarily at being photo'd, I suppose, but at the manner in which he went about it. He could have quite simply said afterwards, something along the lines of "sorry to snap before asking but i thought you made a great shot, would you mind if i used it...?" - just running off made us feel a bit threatened.

What's the middle ground..?

[Simpo Two]

Society has got to the state where we are made to feel guilty about everything for no good reason, even putting the milkbottles out. I think the only way to deal with it, other than hiding in a dark cupboard, is to say 'fk them all' and get on with whatever you were doing. If someone has a problem with that, stand up for yourself.

[baz7175]

Simpo Two said:

Society has got to the state where we are made to feel guilty about everything for no good reason, even putting the milkbottles out. I think the only way to deal with it, other than hiding in a dark cupboard, is to say 'fk them all' and get on with whatever you were doing. If someone has a problem with that, stand up for yourself.

With you on this one, I've lately grown used to using the phrase "Do I look like I give a st?"

[Simpo Two]

Or an inappropriate quote from Asterix which I rather like: 'My pilum is harder than your sternum'

[Road2Ruin]

You are talking about two quite different situations here. The first one at the ice skating rink is probably not a public place and therefore the people who control it are at liberty to dictate the rules to which you must adhere. The second in the street is quite clearly a public place and therefore you can take a picture of what or whoever you like. Although I do agree it's poor form to go up to someone and take a rather obvious pic without permission. On the flip side though how many people object or feel uneasy about all the CCTV footage in london, you picture is being taken more times than you know!

[Buffalo]

Perhaps, but I felt that the skating rink was more about "child safety" (every *is* a paedophile, right..?)than lost revenue from unauthorised photography.

The second, you are quite right, is a public place and anyone can take a picture of anyone in theory - although this goes against the current trend of point 1. I think what left a sour taste for me in this instance, was the guy stopped opposite us for a few minutes - my missus looked up to clock him (she's naturally wary of situations like that having had a bag snatched once) and as she looked down again at our map he flashed off a couple of shots. When my missus looked up again (startled by the flash gun) he dashed off. Just poor form from him IMO - a "fk you" attitude doesn't really help anyone and as I had been out taking photos myself that day, I wouldn't have necessarily had a problem with it, but can't help thinking his way of doing it doesn't help the rest of us searching for a friendly way of continuing the hobby/ way of life.

I was recently on a passenger ferry and an older lady took some photos of some young kids playing between themselves. She had the courtesy to go up to the family whose children they were and show them the photos. She ended up swapping email addresses and promised to send them on.

Edited by Buffalo on Monday 21st December 14:56

[Rofly Lollers]

Buffalo - it might be worth having a look through this thread for your wife's photo...

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread...

=Capture a stranger street style=

I would say that the most important thing to have when shooting strangers, candids or scenes that define a moment is not equipment, but confidence…For some it comes easy and for others it is a struggle…As for me, I do not have a problem with confidence, but still I do get into ruts and when I do, I call it a day and try again another day…Go to the same places over and over again as being familiar with certain places will boost your confidence. The locals will get to know you and not even notice you after a while. The scenes are always different as people are always different…Blend in. Be a Chameleon..
Look like you belong…

Things that I do and don’t do…First, avoid eye contact with your subject most of the time unless your trying to get their attention.. Don’t think to much, just shoot. If you think, you will likely miss the moment and or chicken out. Don’t hide, but be obvious. If you hide, you will let out creepy vibes and peoples senses will be directed at you...be friendly and smile allot. Talk to people..The most common thing I hear when taking folks pictures is ..’’sorry, I got in your shot’’..I just smile and chuckle…I have found that when people ask me why did I take their picture, I am honest with my reason most of the time. Lying does not work well for me as I am a lousy liar. I always get caught so I avoid it. Most people are happy to have their picture taken, especially the ladies. There are times when I will ask a stranger if I can take their picture..Not often, because I prefer the true candid…When I shoot street performers, I try and catch them candidly, but I pay them afterwards. They are out to make a living and I can appreciate that…When I shoot people that are down on their luck, I will not walk away and leave them empty handed..This of course is me…

[NewNameNeeded]

Just to add a positive slant to things - I've taken photographs in London virtually every weekend for the last 2 -3 years and have had very few problems. I've been approached by police just the once, when shooting photos outside the O2 on a gig night, and they were very polite and didn't ask me to leave, just wanted to say that the venue did not allow photography for commercial gain. When I said it was for personal use they just let me get on with things.

So I am sure problems do exist - but just like murder and engine failures on 996's the problems are relatively small but perhaps overly publicised.

[DHA]

NewNameNeeded said:

So I am sure problems do exist - but just like..........engine failures on 996's the problems are relatively small but perhaps overly publicised.

[jon-]

I'm on the side of no photos. I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely attractive girlfriend and if blokes point a camera at her I tend to lose the plot.

If I ever take photos in a public place I make sure my camera is CLEARLY pointing at the floor and will only frame a photo if it's clear I'm only shooting my intended target - doubly so when there are children around.

[bobda]

jon- said:

I'm on the side of no photos. I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely attractive girlfriend and if blokes point a camera at her I tend to lose the plot.

I think you need to chill out.
Be happy that you have the 'extremely attractive girlfriend' and worry about things that really matter!

[awager]

jon- said:

I'm on the side of no photos. I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely attractive girlfriend and if blokes point a camera at her I tend to lose the plot.

If I ever take photos in a public place I make sure my camera is CLEARLY pointing at the floor and will only frame a photo if it's clear I'm only shooting my intended target - doubly so when there are children around.

haha
You won't have a girlfriend for long if you lose it when people look at or point a camera at her.

[jon-]

awager said:

jon- said:

I'm on the side of no photos. I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely attractive girlfriend and if blokes point a camera at her I tend to lose the plot.

If I ever take photos in a public place I make sure my camera is CLEARLY pointing at the floor and will only frame a photo if it's clear I'm only shooting my intended target - doubly so when there are children around.

haha
You won't have a girlfriend for long if you lose it when people look at or point a camera at her.

I never said anything about people looking at her - that's a fact of life. What gives people the right to randomly take photos of her though? I'm not talking about catching her in frame, but specifically taking a shot. She doesn't like it any more than I do.

[4hero]

jon- said:

awager said:

jon- said:

I'm on the side of no photos. I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely attractive girlfriend and if blokes point a camera at her I tend to lose the plot.

If I ever take photos in a public place I make sure my camera is CLEARLY pointing at the floor and will only frame a photo if it's clear I'm only shooting my intended target - doubly so when there are children around.

haha
You won't have a girlfriend for long if you lose it when people look at or point a camera at her.

I never said anything about people looking at her - that's a fact of life. What gives people the right to randomly take photos of her though? I'm not talking about catching her in frame, but specifically taking a shot. She doesn't like it any more than I do.

Because it's a free country?

I'm guessing you are happy for her to be caught on cctv 24/7 or do you lock her in your house?

[jon-]

4hero said:

Because it's a free country?

I'm guessing you are happy for her to be caught on cctv 24/7 or do you lock her in your house?

There's no intent with CCTV. To take a portrait of someone without permission is at the very least, disrespectful, at the worse voyeuristic.

[4hero]

jon- said:

4hero said:

Because it's a free country?

I'm guessing you are happy for her to be caught on cctv 24/7 or do you lock her in your house?

There's no intent with CCTV. To take a portrait of someone without permission is at the very least, disrespectful, at the worse voyeuristic.

How is it disrespectful, it's surely flattering? How do you know there is intent with taking her shot? How do you know that some "security guard" isn't zooming in to see down her top with the cctv? (or do you make her wear big wooly jumpers when out and about). As for voyeuristic, get a grip. If there was some dodgy perv hiding behind a bush with a long coat on taking her shot then fine (mind you, you would never know, nor see them). Some of the best photography I have seen is candid street photography, and personally love doing it myself.

Stop being paranoid man.

[nick_bbb]

jon- said:

There's no intent with CCTV.

I'm sorry Jon but that is a very naive view. When one of the car parks in Croydon first had CCTV fitted they invited people in to see how it all worked to make them feel comfortable about leaving their cars there. Some of the guys got chatting to the bloke who was manning the cameras and he pulled out a video of "highlights" to show them which included a couple having sex on the stairs in the car park.

[Simpo Two]

jon- said:

There's no intent with CCTV. To take a portrait of someone without permission is at the very least, disrespectful, at the worse voyeuristic.

Unless they're ugly of course, in which case it must be open season. I don't think 'attractiveness' is a legal issue - though I suppose you could appoint a jury to score to each person and if it's less than 5.0 it's OK.

I had a very photogenic girlfriend some years back and while on holiday in the country we bumped into a roving camera club - well, half a dozen polite blokes with cameras. They did ask first, then took some photos of her while she posed in front of a church. She was happy to oblige and felt pretty, and I liked the fact they thought so too. No problem.

Seems we're all a bit too jumpy these days.

[jon-]

4hero said:

jon- said:

4hero said:

Because it's a free country?

I'm guessing you are happy for her to be caught on cctv 24/7 or do you lock her in your house?

There's no intent with CCTV. To take a portrait of someone without permission is at the very least, disrespectful, at the worse voyeuristic.

How is it disrespectful, it's surely flattering? How do you know there is intent with taking her shot? How do you know that some "security guard" isn't zooming in to see down her top with the cctv? (or do you make her wear big wooly jumpers when out and about). As for voyeuristic, get a grip. If there was some dodgy perv hiding behind a bush with a long coat on taking her shot then fine (mind you, you would never know, nor see them). Some of the best photography I have seen is candid street photography, and personally love doing it myself.

Stop being paranoid man.

Lets stop with the me "making her" theme. She doesn't like people taking photos of her as a rule, doubly so if it's some random in the street. If something upsets my girlfriend it bothers me. Jealous boyfriend or not, it doesn't work as a counter argument.

As an example. You have a daughter, she grows up to be a healthy attractive 16 year old. You're on holiday and you notice someone on a beach taking photos of her with a 400mm. Ok? Obviously not. You're out shopping with her when she's 18, you notice a group of lads with a camera phone taking photos of her. Ok or do you say something? Guy with an SLR taking photos of crowed streets with you as the focus. Ok? Same guy, same street but you notice he's now using a long lens to photograph bums. Ok? Where do you draw the line between what's OK and what's not? There is no black and white, all we have to work with is peoples feelings.

If you're singling out a young attractive girl for a "candid photo" a) don't think you're flattering her, she will likely feel threatened and upset if she notices and b) if she's with a boyfriend, expect to piss him off if he notices.

[jon-]

Simpo Two said:

jon- said:

There's no intent with CCTV. To take a portrait of someone without permission is at the very least, disrespectful, at the worse voyeuristic.

Unless they're ugly of course, in which case it must be open season. I don't think 'attractiveness' is a legal issue - though I suppose you could appoint a jury to score to each person and if it's less than 5.0 it's OK.

I had a very photogenic girlfriend some years back and while on holiday in the country we bumped into a roving camera club - well, half a dozen polite blokes with cameras. They did ask first, then took some photos of her while she posed in front of a church. She was happy to oblige and felt pretty, and I liked the fact they thought so too. No problem.

Seems we're all a bit too jumpy these days.

There we go, the consent system working perfectly.