What resolution should I take pics at ? Noob!
Discussion
Righty I just bought myself a bridge camera, Fuji s8000fd, 8mp 18zoom from Fuji for a bargain £114, mainly to try and learn a bit more about photography and as an upgrade to something more modern.
The Fuji reviews I read are generally positive for this camera scoring normally between 7 & 9 on most websites.
So far most shots have been out of focus slightly blurred, grainy some are OK. I have one fantastic closeup pic of my nieces eye
very happy with that.
This camera has dual stabilization, I'd imagine most of the faults lie with me, I do try to stand still tucking my elbows into my ribs and such.
I digress, most of the pics I will take will normally be printed as standard 6*4ish prints.
Some of the pics I have taken on my very old 2mp Kodak dc280 point and shoot, look absolutely fantastic, yet my modern 8mp Fuji s8000fd so far do not look great at all.
Should I be taking the pics at a lower res, ie 4mp, I doubt if any pics I take will be blown up to a larger print, would taking them at 4mb make any difference.
Sorry bit of a div on cameras
The Fuji reviews I read are generally positive for this camera scoring normally between 7 & 9 on most websites.
So far most shots have been out of focus slightly blurred, grainy some are OK. I have one fantastic closeup pic of my nieces eye
very happy with that.This camera has dual stabilization, I'd imagine most of the faults lie with me, I do try to stand still tucking my elbows into my ribs and such.
I digress, most of the pics I will take will normally be printed as standard 6*4ish prints.
Some of the pics I have taken on my very old 2mp Kodak dc280 point and shoot, look absolutely fantastic, yet my modern 8mp Fuji s8000fd so far do not look great at all.
Should I be taking the pics at a lower res, ie 4mp, I doubt if any pics I take will be blown up to a larger print, would taking them at 4mb make any difference.
Sorry bit of a div on cameras
'Slightly blurred' is down to too slow a shutter speed - why isn't the image stabilisation working?
'Grainy' is down to the camera using high ISO in an attempt to get a decent shutter speed.
Ultimately both issues are caued by too many pixels on too small a chip, unfortunately. You'll need to find more light or use flash, or use a tripod. Welcome to the laws of physics
'Grainy' is down to the camera using high ISO in an attempt to get a decent shutter speed.
Ultimately both issues are caued by too many pixels on too small a chip, unfortunately. You'll need to find more light or use flash, or use a tripod. Welcome to the laws of physics
To repeat what's been said. Always shoot the best quality - memory cards are cheap so why not?
As for the shake, well that's why us DSLR owners pend thousands on massive lenses - your fuji probably has more reach than the lenses at use at a lot of sports events, but will only work in bright light, image stabilization or not.
edited to add:
That said the Fuji glass tends to be pretty good quality wise for a compact. Having IS will be a bonus and help a bit. Personally I'd be prepared to push the ISO up a bit and crop if needed. Sounds like you have the technique sorted otherwise. Maybe consider a monopod ? (though check the IS will cope with it first)
As for the shake, well that's why us DSLR owners pend thousands on massive lenses - your fuji probably has more reach than the lenses at use at a lot of sports events, but will only work in bright light, image stabilization or not.
edited to add:
That said the Fuji glass tends to be pretty good quality wise for a compact. Having IS will be a bonus and help a bit. Personally I'd be prepared to push the ISO up a bit and crop if needed. Sounds like you have the technique sorted otherwise. Maybe consider a monopod ? (though check the IS will cope with it first)
Edited by VxDuncan on Tuesday 9th September 09:33
Thanks for replies, I believe the fault is basically me!
I had the camera on auto setting last night in my living room with the flash ready, I shook the camera, not to dissimilar to shaking a fizzy drink, and was gobsmacked that it took a pretty good steady pic, with the flash not ready pic is blurred I believe the image stabilization is working fine.
I tried importing pics on my laptop last night to host, unfortunately laptop is having a hissy fit importing, Fuji software wants to import pics, but at the same time my newly installed lightroom 2 is also looking to bagsy the pics, I'll have to faff about before I upload.
If a pic is taken at full res in my case 8meg, should the pic look sharp at original size, or should graininess pixelation occur only when zooming in past 100% ie 150%.
I checked google images of other peoples pics using this camera, and to my eyes they look grainy and most pics seem to have a bluish tint.
http://www.pbase.com/sai_527
I then checked a similar specced slightly more expensive Panasonic FZ18, to my eyes they pics look more colourful, and sharp
http://www.pbase.com/mjonesgraphics/profile
Thoughts welcome
I had the camera on auto setting last night in my living room with the flash ready, I shook the camera, not to dissimilar to shaking a fizzy drink, and was gobsmacked that it took a pretty good steady pic, with the flash not ready pic is blurred I believe the image stabilization is working fine.
I tried importing pics on my laptop last night to host, unfortunately laptop is having a hissy fit importing, Fuji software wants to import pics, but at the same time my newly installed lightroom 2 is also looking to bagsy the pics, I'll have to faff about before I upload.
If a pic is taken at full res in my case 8meg, should the pic look sharp at original size, or should graininess pixelation occur only when zooming in past 100% ie 150%.
I checked google images of other peoples pics using this camera, and to my eyes they look grainy and most pics seem to have a bluish tint.
http://www.pbase.com/sai_527
I then checked a similar specced slightly more expensive Panasonic FZ18, to my eyes they pics look more colourful, and sharp
http://www.pbase.com/mjonesgraphics/profile
Thoughts welcome
I wouldn't spend too long staring at the individual pixels in your photos - you'll go cross-eyed or a bit mad.
Image stabilisation isn't a magic bullet - it is pretty impressive technology, but I'd be surprised if it could cope with you deliberately shaking the camera like a fizzy drink! The sharp picture you got is probably more thanks to the flash than the image stabilisation.
Your camera will have different light sensitivity settings (called ISO settings) - when you are indoors in automatic mode it probably increases the ISO value to allow it to take pictures in low light. When the ISO setting is increased, electronic 'noise' starts to become a problem in the sensor's circuitry which makes the picture look speckled or grainy. This is a problem with all digital cameras, although the DSLRs cope better with it due to having a physically larger sensor.
You'll find that the exposure settings have an impact on the sharpness - you'll need a fast shutter speed (or tripod) and an aperture setting in the middle of the range to get the best out of any camera. Try taking some pictures outdoors in bright light, and/or post some pictures for us to have a look at.
I'd agree that some of the pictures you're looking at do look a bit soft and grainy at 100%. You can make digital pictures look sharper by 'sharpening' them in lightroom (or any other photo editor), be careful - it is easy to overdo it and you want less sharpening on a printed photo than looks good on screen. Your camera will already have automatically sharpened the pics a bit - it might be worth looking in the instructions to see whether you can adjust the sharpness setting. There may also be settings for colour and saturation that you can play with.
Bear in mind that some of the Panasonic pictures that you're looking at have been tinkered with - e.g. the Sparrow is a crop out of a larger photo, and you can bet there has been some more processing (noise reduction, sharpening) done at the same time. The picture of the maple leaves was taken in very bright light with a low ISO setting (100).
The slightly blue tint may be due to the camera guessing the wrong white balance setting (a digital camera needs to know what colour the ambient light is - direct sunlight is a different colour to light from flourescent bulb, or light from the camera flash). It may be worth looking at the instructions to see whether you can set the correct white balance directly.
Image stabilisation isn't a magic bullet - it is pretty impressive technology, but I'd be surprised if it could cope with you deliberately shaking the camera like a fizzy drink! The sharp picture you got is probably more thanks to the flash than the image stabilisation.
Your camera will have different light sensitivity settings (called ISO settings) - when you are indoors in automatic mode it probably increases the ISO value to allow it to take pictures in low light. When the ISO setting is increased, electronic 'noise' starts to become a problem in the sensor's circuitry which makes the picture look speckled or grainy. This is a problem with all digital cameras, although the DSLRs cope better with it due to having a physically larger sensor.
You'll find that the exposure settings have an impact on the sharpness - you'll need a fast shutter speed (or tripod) and an aperture setting in the middle of the range to get the best out of any camera. Try taking some pictures outdoors in bright light, and/or post some pictures for us to have a look at.
I'd agree that some of the pictures you're looking at do look a bit soft and grainy at 100%. You can make digital pictures look sharper by 'sharpening' them in lightroom (or any other photo editor), be careful - it is easy to overdo it and you want less sharpening on a printed photo than looks good on screen. Your camera will already have automatically sharpened the pics a bit - it might be worth looking in the instructions to see whether you can adjust the sharpness setting. There may also be settings for colour and saturation that you can play with.
Bear in mind that some of the Panasonic pictures that you're looking at have been tinkered with - e.g. the Sparrow is a crop out of a larger photo, and you can bet there has been some more processing (noise reduction, sharpening) done at the same time. The picture of the maple leaves was taken in very bright light with a low ISO setting (100).
The slightly blue tint may be due to the camera guessing the wrong white balance setting (a digital camera needs to know what colour the ambient light is - direct sunlight is a different colour to light from flourescent bulb, or light from the camera flash). It may be worth looking at the instructions to see whether you can set the correct white balance directly.
Really basic overview of how a picture is made up:
Camera judges light in scene and wants to take a photo with say 10 "Units" of light (typically to average that scene to a mid grey).
To get these "10 Units" of light it has three variables:
- The amount of time the shutters open for
- The amount of light the lens lets in (the aperture)
- The ISO / speed of the film (or sensor gain in digtal)
Normally you set the ISO and it then picks a combination of shutter duration and apperture to make the correct exposure. If the ISO is low (slower to record the image) it needs longer shutter speed AND/OR bigger apperture, and vis-versa. So if the shutter speed is halved, the apperture must be twice as big or the ISO twice as fast to compensate. Likewise if the ISO is higher (faster) you can use a smaller apperture or a shorter shutterspeed that will show less camera shake.
It's all a case of balancing these different factors, though luckily the camera tryies to do all this for you, but its still limited by physics.
The downside of all this is that you need a fast shutter speed to stop camera shake, which means using faster ISO or bigger lens apperture. Faster ISO gives more noise, and your lens can only let so much light in! That's why the pros speed silly amounts of big lenses that let in shed loads of light and cameras that can use higher ISO's without showing too much noise.
As for Lightroom wanting to open all your images rather than the fuji software if you're on a PC go to Windows Explorer - right click on one of the files you want to change the association with select "Open With >" then "Choose program >" then select your fuji software and tick the "always use the selected program to open this file type" checkbox to restore the association. Alternatively you can do this from tools>folder options>file types.
Camera judges light in scene and wants to take a photo with say 10 "Units" of light (typically to average that scene to a mid grey).
To get these "10 Units" of light it has three variables:
- The amount of time the shutters open for
- The amount of light the lens lets in (the aperture)
- The ISO / speed of the film (or sensor gain in digtal)
Normally you set the ISO and it then picks a combination of shutter duration and apperture to make the correct exposure. If the ISO is low (slower to record the image) it needs longer shutter speed AND/OR bigger apperture, and vis-versa. So if the shutter speed is halved, the apperture must be twice as big or the ISO twice as fast to compensate. Likewise if the ISO is higher (faster) you can use a smaller apperture or a shorter shutterspeed that will show less camera shake.
It's all a case of balancing these different factors, though luckily the camera tryies to do all this for you, but its still limited by physics.
The downside of all this is that you need a fast shutter speed to stop camera shake, which means using faster ISO or bigger lens apperture. Faster ISO gives more noise, and your lens can only let so much light in! That's why the pros speed silly amounts of big lenses that let in shed loads of light and cameras that can use higher ISO's without showing too much noise.
As for Lightroom wanting to open all your images rather than the fuji software if you're on a PC go to Windows Explorer - right click on one of the files you want to change the association with select "Open With >" then "Choose program >" then select your fuji software and tick the "always use the selected program to open this file type" checkbox to restore the association. Alternatively you can do this from tools>folder options>file types.
69 coupe said:
I've always had the RTFM problem
, only when i've truly kacked everything up do I look at manuals
The problem with manuals is that tell you WHAT every button does, but not what it MEANS or WHEN to use it. Hence to my mind, the subjects of (a) photography and (b) working the camera are two different things. Luckily the forum seem to be doing well with (a) and you've got the manual for (b). But do try to understand what's going on inside the camera, in the same way that good drivers know that the steering wheel is connected to the road via four bits of rubber., only when i've truly kacked everything up do I look at manuals 69 coupe said:
Thanks for replies, I believe the fault is basically me!
I had the camera on auto setting last night in my living room with the flash ready, I shook the camera, not to dissimilar to shaking a fizzy drink, and was gobsmacked that it took a pretty good steady pic, with the flash not ready pic is blurred I believe the image stabilization is working fine.
I tried importing pics on my laptop last night to host, unfortunately laptop is having a hissy fit importing, Fuji software wants to import pics, but at the same time my newly installed lightroom 2 is also looking to bagsy the pics, I'll have to faff about before I upload.
If a pic is taken at full res in my case 8meg, should the pic look sharp at original size, or should graininess pixelation occur only when zooming in past 100% ie 150%.
I checked google images of other peoples pics using this camera, and to my eyes they look grainy and most pics seem to have a bluish tint.
http://www.pbase.com/sai_527
I then checked a similar specced slightly more expensive Panasonic FZ18, to my eyes they pics look more colourful, and sharp
http://www.pbase.com/mjonesgraphics/profile
Thoughts welcome
Don't use auto mode, ever.I had the camera on auto setting last night in my living room with the flash ready, I shook the camera, not to dissimilar to shaking a fizzy drink, and was gobsmacked that it took a pretty good steady pic, with the flash not ready pic is blurred I believe the image stabilization is working fine.
I tried importing pics on my laptop last night to host, unfortunately laptop is having a hissy fit importing, Fuji software wants to import pics, but at the same time my newly installed lightroom 2 is also looking to bagsy the pics, I'll have to faff about before I upload.
If a pic is taken at full res in my case 8meg, should the pic look sharp at original size, or should graininess pixelation occur only when zooming in past 100% ie 150%.
I checked google images of other peoples pics using this camera, and to my eyes they look grainy and most pics seem to have a bluish tint.
http://www.pbase.com/sai_527
I then checked a similar specced slightly more expensive Panasonic FZ18, to my eyes they pics look more colourful, and sharp
http://www.pbase.com/mjonesgraphics/profile
Thoughts welcome
Fuji cams are notorious for ramping the iso right up in auto mode even in reasonably bright light, learn to use 'P' mode asap, it's just like auto except you get to manually adjust the iso, or you can set it to auto iso (max 400), which still gives auto functionality but stops the iso going above 400 (images taken with iso above 400 will look cack).
The FZ18 is supposed to be a bit sharper, but you can always get good colour out of a fuji, the s8000 has white balance settings aplenty, including custom, so getting it right can't be too hard. Also bin the fuji software, it's crap and the camera works like a big USB stick when you plug it in, so the software is pointless.
Also if you look at an 8meg pic at 100% on your screen, it is like printing the picture at A3 and getting the magnifying glass out, scale back to the width of your screen and if it looks ok like that then it will print on a 6x4 or 7x5 just fine.
One other thing to remember is that using the digital zoom (rather than stopping at the limit of the optical zoom) can also cause these problems - I have found that it is much better to take the photo at the optical zoom limit and enlarge/crop on the PC than to let the camera do it.
Alex
Edit: You can probably ignore that as your camera appears to be optical zoom only!
Alex
Edit: You can probably ignore that as your camera appears to be optical zoom only!
Edited by AlexB on Thursday 11th September 09:32
Cabinet Enforcer said:
Also if you look at an 8meg pic at 100% on your screen, it is like printing the picture at A3 and getting the magnifying glass out, scale back to the width of your screen and if it looks ok like that then it will print on a 6x4 or 7x5 just fine.
Ah, thats was I was getting at, by looking at a normal 8meg pic at its standard resolution which will be about A3 it will look more grainy on a laptop screen.I've tried to upload to putfile, but it fails to show them on my putfile homepage, just going through setting up a phtobucket site, I notice it wil limit the pic to a max 1mb or 1024x768.
I'll post a link when its uploaded, it's going very slow at the moment.
To all you posters, thanks for all the tips
Try this link, only loaded a few, the eye pic is definitely the best just wish the rest were of similar quality.
http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/johnspics_...
http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/johnspics_...
I am not an expert so I may be wrong (again), but looking at the details of each of the photos it seems that the ones with a lower ISO (so a slower exposure, or wider aperture for the shot) look pretty sharp to me. For example the eye shot is at 200, the garden group is at 100 and the garden slide is at 64. But when the camera selects ISO 800 it looks grainy.
For two of the street shots there seems to be an exposure bias of 1.00 (not mentioned on the other details) which could be a reason for them looking (to me) a bit overexposed. Also, the blurred one with the flag in the background has a fairly slow shutter speed (1/7 of a sec) so that might explain the blur.
The TV shot is very odd - the picture seems to extend off the top of the screen and be duplicated, but is the only thing that shows the blur. It looks as though the flash was used and I would guess that you moved the camera before or after the flash fired (which illuminated the room, but the bright picture on the TV was caught twice).
Can you turn the image stab off? If you are sure you aren't moving then that couldbe causing the problem. Try using a tripod or resting the camera on a table to avoid camera shake.
Good Luck - try to takesome test shots and post the results - change one thing at a time if poss!
Alex
For two of the street shots there seems to be an exposure bias of 1.00 (not mentioned on the other details) which could be a reason for them looking (to me) a bit overexposed. Also, the blurred one with the flag in the background has a fairly slow shutter speed (1/7 of a sec) so that might explain the blur.
The TV shot is very odd - the picture seems to extend off the top of the screen and be duplicated, but is the only thing that shows the blur. It looks as though the flash was used and I would guess that you moved the camera before or after the flash fired (which illuminated the room, but the bright picture on the TV was caught twice).
Can you turn the image stab off? If you are sure you aren't moving then that couldbe causing the problem. Try using a tripod or resting the camera on a table to avoid camera shake.
Good Luck - try to takesome test shots and post the results - change one thing at a time if poss!
Alex
As Alex says,
This one:
....looks like camera shake due to having a shutter speed that is too slow - a rough rule of thumb to avoid camera shake is to use a shutter speed of 1/focal length (35mm equivalent). That photo was taken with a focal length equivalent to 154mm, but a shutter speed of 1/7 second. An image stabiliser will help you get away with a slower shutter speed, but I'd have thought that was too slow even with the image stabilisation.
This one:
also looks like camera shake, plus over-exposure.
This one:
looks out of focus - is it a crop out of a larger photo, or was that the whole thing?
This one:
looks a bit grainy, and maybe a bit shaky/out of focus due to too slow shutter speed and/or getting a bit too close perhaps?
This one:
....looks like camera shake due to having a shutter speed that is too slow - a rough rule of thumb to avoid camera shake is to use a shutter speed of 1/focal length (35mm equivalent). That photo was taken with a focal length equivalent to 154mm, but a shutter speed of 1/7 second. An image stabiliser will help you get away with a slower shutter speed, but I'd have thought that was too slow even with the image stabilisation.
This one:
also looks like camera shake, plus over-exposure.
This one:
looks out of focus - is it a crop out of a larger photo, or was that the whole thing?
This one:
looks a bit grainy, and maybe a bit shaky/out of focus due to too slow shutter speed and/or getting a bit too close perhaps?
Edited by rustyspit on Thursday 11th September 21:40
Thanks Alex, when I look at the uploaded pics they don't look too bad at all!
I guess I will have to put more thought into each pic, rather that just firing away. After all that's the reason I got the camera, I need to slow down and not keep moving the settings all the time until I've learnt what they do.
Read a bit of the manual for dual stabilization, the button needs to be held half way down for ccd shift stabilization to take place.
Camera does have a digital zoom, 18x optical with a 5x digital zoom, I've not used tele zooming yet.
Just won a lowepro TLZ mini bag on Ebay, £4.40 delivered, get in!
I guess I will have to put more thought into each pic, rather that just firing away. After all that's the reason I got the camera, I need to slow down and not keep moving the settings all the time until I've learnt what they do.
Read a bit of the manual for dual stabilization, the button needs to be held half way down for ccd shift stabilization to take place.
Camera does have a digital zoom, 18x optical with a 5x digital zoom, I've not used tele zooming yet.
Just won a lowepro TLZ mini bag on Ebay, £4.40 delivered, get in!
rustyspit said:
As Alex says,
This one:
....looks like camera shake due to having a shutter speed that is too slow - a rough rule of thumb to avoid camera shake is to use a shutter speed of 1/focal length (35mm equivalent). That photo was taken with a focal length equivalent to 154mm, but a shutter speed of 1/7 second. An image stabiliser will help you get away with a slower shutter speed, but I'd have thought that was too slow even with the image stabilisation.
This one:
also looks like camera shake, plus over-exposure.
This one:
looks out of focus - is it a crop out of a larger photo, or was that the whole thing?
This one:
looks a bit grainy, and maybe a bit shaky/out of focus due to too slow shutter speed and/or getting a bit too close perhaps?
I reckon I've got parkinsons, the flower pic was just a handheld macro shot, it was quite windy, haven't cropped any pics, just straight from the camera.This one:
....looks like camera shake due to having a shutter speed that is too slow - a rough rule of thumb to avoid camera shake is to use a shutter speed of 1/focal length (35mm equivalent). That photo was taken with a focal length equivalent to 154mm, but a shutter speed of 1/7 second. An image stabiliser will help you get away with a slower shutter speed, but I'd have thought that was too slow even with the image stabilisation.
This one:
also looks like camera shake, plus over-exposure.
This one:
looks out of focus - is it a crop out of a larger photo, or was that the whole thing?
This one:
looks a bit grainy, and maybe a bit shaky/out of focus due to too slow shutter speed and/or getting a bit too close perhaps?
Edited by rustyspit on Thursday 11th September 21:40
I'll keep at it, when I've got a masterpiece, I'll post up
Edited to add, the memory card is a Kingston 8gb sdhc class 6 £12.50 ish
Edited by 69 coupe on Thursday 11th September 22:25
Remember that 'Dual' part of the stabilization isn't really stabilization - it will just try to crank up the ISO value in low light to keep your shutter speed from dropping too low.
If you think your pictures look a bit grainy you might want to turn off the ISO 'stabilization', and just use the CCD shift stabilization (which is what most companies mean when they use 'image stabilization'). At least that way you isolate one of the variables and you can concentrate on the others.
The pic of the girl in the chair is a bit odd if it isn't a crop - I can't see anything in the photo that looks like it is in focus, so I'm surprised that the autofocus system allowed you to take the picture. Perhaps it focused on something else first, then you moved the camera? With many cameras, when you press the shutter button half-way the camera will lock focus/exposure on whatever it is pointed at at the time. If you then move the camera and press the button the rest of the way, it won't re-adjust the focus or exposure.
If you think your pictures look a bit grainy you might want to turn off the ISO 'stabilization', and just use the CCD shift stabilization (which is what most companies mean when they use 'image stabilization'). At least that way you isolate one of the variables and you can concentrate on the others.
The pic of the girl in the chair is a bit odd if it isn't a crop - I can't see anything in the photo that looks like it is in focus, so I'm surprised that the autofocus system allowed you to take the picture. Perhaps it focused on something else first, then you moved the camera? With many cameras, when you press the shutter button half-way the camera will lock focus/exposure on whatever it is pointed at at the time. If you then move the camera and press the button the rest of the way, it won't re-adjust the focus or exposure.
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