Sailing photography...tips please!

[Hard-Drive]

Had my DSLR about 6 months now and starting to get the hang of the basics. It's a Canon EOS350D and due to range issues I'm normally using a Canon Ultrasonic 75-300 1:4-5.6 if that means anything to people. I was out at the weekend shooting (bugger, should have been racing however broken collar bone put an end to that) and I am fairly pleased with the results, however my hit rate is awful and my shots lack something that je ne sais quoi that I've seen the pros turn out.

What do I need to take better shots?

Sunshine...always nice but not always on the cards in the UK? I've taken "dull" shots before that suddely become all "arty/moody" and look better in B&W, would I be better trying to do something with some of these dull ones like selctive colourisation, perhaps highlighting the bright spinnakers on an otherwise B&W shot?
GIMP skills...I can just about straighten horizons out, crop, and clone defects like ripped sails etc, are there other things I should be looking at?
New lens...I find that I'm often at full zoom with the inevitable camera shake as I'm on bigger f numbers to try and get some depth of field. I've heard good things about Sigma lenses, any recommendations?
Or just better technique, experience, a good book or a course?

Shots are here http://www.flickr.com/photos/23284229@N05/ but here's a few anyway.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by Hard-Drive on Wednesday 27th August 10:55

[CVP]

Firslty let me say if you've only been doing this seriously for 6 months then a couple of those are really nice shots, favourites for me are numbers 3 and 4.

You have a big advantage in that you know the sport you are trying to photograph so you can anticipate the action which will stand you in good stead for the future.

In terms of techniques etc, you're right it's really all about light. On the water you do have some advantages as light bounces round a lot so you generally get a faster exposure than on land, this could help with being able to use faster shutter speeds out there. The 300mm might be a bit limiting but it depends where you are shooting from, if it's from a boat accompanying the race then get the driver to get a bit closer If it's from the land then more reach would be good but unless you're lucky lenses for that kind of reach which will give you a decent shutter speed can be very very expensive (thousands of pounds). Sigma lenses can be very good, for a cheap way into big telephoto lots of folk use the 50-500mm zoom, often called the "Bigma", that would give you a lot more reach than your 300mm.

In terms of altering the images, lots of folks use GIMP and they are much better placed to advise on suitable resources than I. As for selective colour it's a very "marmite" kind of editing. Someone here a couple of weeks ago said something along the lines of, learn the technique to improve your PS skills and then never use it. I kind of agree with that approach

If I recall correctly one of the residents of the forum is a professional sailing photographer so his advice should be right up your street.

Take lots of pictures and enjoy it.

Cheers

Chris

[Simpo Two]

CVP said:

If I recall correctly one of the residents of the forum is a professional sailing photographer so his advice should be right up your street.

'scooby-snax' I believe but I've not seen him for a while.

[ruaricoles]

They look pretty good to me! Some brilliant compositions there, and while (like many) I'm not a fan of selective colouring some of them almost look like they're selectively coloured already as the backgrounds are so grey and the sails colourful, which I think works well. Perhaps try to reduce the depth of field if you have land in the background (maybe not so easy) and boost the saturation a tiny bit to get a bit more "punch" as it were? And reschedule all the races for sunrise or sunset while you're at it!

Ruari

[VxDuncan]

They are good, and you're hitting the nail on the head technically wise too. First off, if the light's flat, it's flat. There's not much you can do in these situations to improve it. Personally (although this does require reasonable knowledge of the editing process), I would shot RAW, then you have the ability to adjust the white balance afterwards to warm up the image slightly for our climbs. You can also boost the colour saturation slightly (IMO canon's have a "truer" colour rendition, where as the consumer Nikons tend to have more "punchy" colour as they boost the saturation, some might say too much).

I'd leave the fancy photoshop tricks out. Get the image right, then play, but don't try and fix something that you're not happy with. For starters I'd try and get lower to the water (were these from large boat?), so you are level with the sailors, shooting across the water. Then try and shoot with a wider apperture (F5.6 if it's sharp enough on your lens) and focus on the action, throwing the background / harbour out of focus. This does mean the focus has to be spot on, but will help freeze the action. With your kit I'd set the ISO as low as you can get bit still get a shutter speed of 1/500's sec or faster. Try 1/250 if pushed, but you may not get away with this at 30mm on a boat.

I guess from there it's all about predicting the action and having the camera at your eye when it's gunna happen. A longer lens may help, but really the 70-300 is sufficient, esp. if you crop the image a bit (which you can get away with a decent res image like from a 350D).

[Hard-Drive]

Thanks very much for the positive feedback...I'm very flattered!

Looks like RAW might be the way to go then...I know basically nothing whatsoever about it save something like it's raw data, you can't see what you've shot until you've "processed" the image in your PC, right? Does this take long? Not to perfect, but just to see roughly what you've shot? Do I just need my camera and PC and GIMP? Any good guides on how to do it and any other considerations like format or file size?

I've only just started to work out what I am doing with aperture priority over full auto modes, however I have tried to go for bigger f numbers as sometimes I really struggled with focusing on the right point with smaller numbers. I guess experience will help me here, but even though the boats in the photos are only 12 foot on the waterline, they are nearly 30 foot long and 30 foot tall so I guess it's quite a big thing to focus on...very easy to have a bit of spinnaker pin sharp and the crew as a complete blur! Any tips about which AF mode I should use, and if I should be using just the centre dot in red or all of them?

This camera boat was a biggie, I was shooting from the flybridge of a 42' Fairline, which ironically I actually quite like as it gives a different perspective to what you usually see. 99.99% of dinghy sailing shots are shot from a RIB...altough of course you can get much closer to the action!

The "Bigma" lens...any clues on the cheapest place to get one if I did want to take the plunge?

Thanks again all!

[windandwave]

You've some great shots there already. I'd agree about getting lower - elevated shots tend to flatten the action. The other thing to do is to think about what sort of shots you'd like and then to position yourself accordingly. Starts and mark roundings often make for good shots (particularly at the windward mark as the spinnies go up) so if you're shooting racing ask your driver to put you somewhere outside the line of fire but close.

If you're not shooting racing but you do have a particular boat which will follow directions then you also have the luxury of positioning them in a way which takes advantage of the direction of wind, wave and sun, and possibly any landmarks, ships or buoys you'd also like in the frame.

[VxDuncan]

Just a thought, but have you run a levels command on those images? Would have a look how to do that in your choosen app - might just give the sparkle you're looking for.

I said earlier to try shooting RAW - should have added that I'd only do this once you are sure you have a method for converting the the RAW files (usually comes with Camera or PS), and you have had a few practice runs before shooting RAW only. If your camera can shoot RAW+Jpeg just go for it if you have teh card space. Process the Jpegs first, and when you are comfortable you can always come back and use the RAWs. I made this mistake when I bought the D80 camera after shooting RAW as normal on the 300D. First light I shot only RAW, then came back with a load of images I couldn't process as my copy of PS wouldn't import them (camera too new) and the Nikon didn't come with anything to open them. Doh!

[Scooby_snax]

Simpo Two said:

CVP said:

If I recall correctly one of the residents of the forum is a professional sailing photographer so his advice should be right up your street.

'scooby-snax' I believe but I've not seen him for a while.

Here I am.....just back from shooting the sailing at the Olympics!!
Here are one or two images out of the 4000 I took..these are less of the pure sailing more 'telling a story' My favourite being the Ben Gold one
http://www.sailshots.co.uk/Olympics2008/index.html

BTW Simpo I saw a posting of yours in Nikonians re the Olympics and was going to leave a cryptic response

Will look at the original question in a mo

[Scooby_snax]

VxDuncan said:

First light I shot only RAW, then came back with a load of images I couldn't process as my copy of PS wouldn't import them (camera too new) and the Nikon didn't come with anything to open them. Doh!

Have you looked at Nikon Capture NX or NX2 which is the latest version quite a powerful tool. I do all my initial RAW work using that and rarely use CS now unless it is for resizing

[Scooby_snax]

Ok back to the original question.
I am sorry I am not familiar with Canon gear so will give an overview.
If your camera can produce good results (vix low noise and good colour saturation) at ISO 400 then use that as a standard - even on sparkly sunny days. Set your camera to shutter priority if you can for around 1/1500 sec
If you are shooting on a dull day then tweaking in Photoshop etc can produce brighter and more lively images.
Whilst big lenses are very useful there are a number of us that use the Canon or Nikon 70-200 regularly, the limiting factor is where you are positioned relative to the dinghies. Certainly on a big motor cruiser you are more likely to be further from the action than if you were on a RIB, which is why most of us have RIBS to get in close to the action without worrying the competitors.
As mentioned I am not familiar with your lens but the Sigma 70 or 80-200 f2.8 is a good lens and roughly 1/2 the price of the Canon equivalent.
Just looking at the Sigma range i see they do a 80-400 with optical stabilisation for about £800.
Generally you get what you pay for with lenses so I would seriously look to spend as much money as your budget allows. Personally I would go for the 70 or 80-200 f2.8 and also acquire a 1.4x teleconverter
If you live close to London you could consider renting several lens from say Fixation to try out to see what works best for you http://www.fixationuk.com/Fixation/Rental.html as they have some Sigma lenses for rent as well as Canon stuff
As already mentioned having knowledge of the sport is a massive plus as you should be able to anticipate what will happen next and track through the action until the moment comes. In addition you should be able to position yourself on the 'racetrack' to get the shot you are looking for, again an advantage for being in a RIB.
In terms of composition I would favour the close up shots - getting facial expressions etc those are more likely to sell to mags, and individuals. There is a place for the more distant shot if you think it tells a story for example at the start.
If you want to bounce further ideas around send me a pm
Steve

[Del 203]

Scooby_snax said:

Here I am.....just back from shooting the sailing at the Olympics!!
Here are one or two images out of the 4000 I took..these are less of the pure sailing more 'telling a story' My favourite being the Ben Gold one
http://www.sailshots.co.uk/Olympics2008/index.html

More please

[SidewaysSid]

Scooby_snax said:

Ok back to the original question.
I am sorry I am not familiar with Canon gear so will give an overview.
If your camera can produce good results (vix low noise and good colour saturation) at ISO 400 then use that as a standard - even on sparkly sunny days. Set your camera to shutter priority if you can for around 1/1500 sec
If you are shooting on a dull day then tweaking in Photoshop etc can produce brighter and more lively images.
Whilst big lenses are very useful there are a number of us that use the Canon or Nikon 70-200 regularly, the limiting factor is where you are positioned relative to the dinghies. Certainly on a big motor cruiser you are more likely to be further from the action than if you were on a RIB, which is why most of us have RIBS to get in close to the action without worrying the competitors.
As mentioned I am not familiar with your lens but the Sigma 70 or 80-200 f2.8 is a good lens and roughly 1/2 the price of the Canon equivalent.
Just looking at the Sigma range i see they do a 80-400 with optical stabilisation for about £800.
Generally you get what you pay for with lenses so I would seriously look to spend as much money as your budget allows. Personally I would go for the 70 or 80-200 f2.8 and also acquire a 1.4x teleconverter
If you live close to London you could consider renting several lens from say Fixation to try out to see what works best for you http://www.fixationuk.com/Fixation/Rental.html as they have some Sigma lenses for rent as well as Canon stuff
As already mentioned having knowledge of the sport is a massive plus as you should be able to anticipate what will happen next and track through the action until the moment comes. In addition you should be able to position yourself on the 'racetrack' to get the shot you are looking for, again an advantage for being in a RIB.
In terms of composition I would favour the close up shots - getting facial expressions etc those are more likely to sell to mags, and individuals. There is a place for the more distant shot if you think it tells a story for example at the start.
If you want to bounce further ideas around send me a pm
Steve

You mentioned a shutter speed of 1/1500th which seems incredibly fast. I tend to do lots of motorpsort photography and find 1/250th, 1/350th and 1/500th of a second to be fast enough depending on angle in relation to the vehicle on track. To try and get movement into the photographs and hence the speed of the subject matter. I will try 1/1500th but surely even on ISO 400 the sunlight would need to be pretty bright to get a decent exposure. I'm not a professional but total amature and it's only one of several hobbies/interests that I have.

I use Canon cameras and have a few L lenses. the 100-400 with stabilization is fantastic. Not cheap but once you've got them and look after them they last a very long time.

Do you recommend use of any particular filters when taking seascape shots ie Polarising filters.

[Scooby_snax]

Dont forget you are also on a boat which is also moving,unlike shooting on land. so yes using a slower shutter speed will create movement blur, but may also mean your prime subject will not be sharp. Indeed i have used 1/3o on occassions depending on the shot required. On the webpage I previously mentioned there are shots with shutter speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/4000
My suggestion of 1/1500 was as a starter as the chap was saying he had a high number of binned shots so to eliminate those that are binned I thought that as a good starting point....once he is comfortable with that then he can become more creative using slower shutter speeds.
I dont use a polariser but others do, I have found and this is just personal, shots such as this http://www.sailshots.co.uk/RTI2008/pages/_DSC3478.... would not have the same effect if a polariser was used. I do use a Hoya 'pro digital filter'on the 70-200 and no filter/skylight on the nikon 200-400 as the filter is at the camera body end of that lens.

[Simpo Two]

Scooby_snax said:

Here I am.....just back from shooting the sailing at the Olympics!!

Filthy name dropper; you're supposed to be Head of Money in a bank! Good job you like sweet and sour pork...

Scooby_snax said:

BTW Simpo I saw a posting of yours in Nikonians re the Olympics and was going to leave a cryptic response

Can't remember that but life is quite cryptic enough thanks

Good to see one of the old guard back though.

[SidewaysSid]

Scooby_snax said:

Dont forget you are also on a boat which is also moving,unlike shooting on land. so yes using a slower shutter speed will create movement blur, but may also mean your prime subject will not be sharp. Indeed i have used 1/3o on occassions depending on the shot required. On the webpage I previously mentioned there are shots with shutter speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/4000
My suggestion of 1/1500 was as a starter as the chap was saying he had a high number of binned shots so to eliminate those that are binned I thought that as a good starting point....once he is comfortable with that then he can become more creative using slower shutter speeds.
I dont use a polariser but others do, I have found and this is just personal, shots such as this http://www.sailshots.co.uk/RTI2008/pages/_DSC3478.... would not have the same effect if a polariser was used. I do use a Hoya 'pro digital filter'on the 70-200 and no filter/skylight on the nikon 200-400 as the filter is at the camera body end of that lens.

On a decent digital SLR what would be the maximum ISO figure you'd go to. I assume that taking photos at 1/4000th would require the ISO to be wound up quite high. Or are there other ways to get a decent exposure at those shutter speeds and still have a sensible depth of field?

[CVP]

Would be really interested to hear what it is actually like at these big events. I guess a lot of us keen amateurs have wished we could be there witht he kind of access you guys get, but what is it really like?

I've reead a number of blogs indicating approx 2-3 hours sleep and night and basically being continuously on the go for 2 weeks but it's always fascinating to hear more about it from those that actually have to get the shots to make a living.

Chris

[Scooby_snax]

CVP said:

Would be really interested to hear what it is actually like at these big events. I guess a lot of us keen amateurs have wished we could be there witht he kind of access you guys get, but what is it really like?

I've reead a number of blogs indicating approx 2-3 hours sleep and night and basically being continuously on the go for 2 weeks but it's always fascinating to hear more about it from those that actually have to get the shots to make a living.

Chris

I was 1 of 2 UK based freelancers to get accreditation
I was going to do a blog when out there, but despite the Chinese saying web access wouldnt be restricted a number of blog sites were inaccessible. I therefore decided not to bother I therefore will pull together a retrospective for my site eventually!
A typical day;
Breakfast 8am
Log on to emails/sort with images
10am get the shuttle bus from hotel, armed guard with police outriders
1010 go through security. Get golf buggy transportation to Media Centre
1015 more work on images, get confirmation which course/fleet and media boat you are on
1130 get onto media boats (6 photographers per boat)also interpreter and boat driver on board
1800 come off water (earlier if medal race)
1830 sort images depending if you were working in the media centre or not (my hotel had a better broadband facility in the room than the media centre so quite often worked there) with a 30 min break for dinner
0100 finish

Took about 4000 images in total
So yes it was hard work, very little time for socialising
I was working for 4 Uk agencies, 1 Irish and 1 French as well as dealing direct with magazines worldwide.
For 2012 I would do things slightly different and presently working on plans for that as well as giving feedback to the LOCOG (London Organising Committee) as to how the media side of things could work better

I think the Chinese experience was interesting, what you saw on TV was not necessarily the reality of the situation.....more of this later
Steve

[Scooby_snax]

Simpo Two said:

Scooby_snax said:

BTW Simpo I saw a posting of yours in Nikonians re the Olympics and was going to leave a cryptic response

Can't remember that but life is quite cryptic enough thanks

Good to see one of the old guard back though.

Sorry it was around Nikon Professional Services!!
Yea lurk in PH from time to time, despite the bhing and demeaning that goes on in other rooms there are a couple of rooms where decent discussions can be had whilst being respectful of other persons opinions

Edited by Scooby_snax on Friday 29th August 15:25

[CVP]

Thanks for that, very interesting, especially to see from the timings just how much hard work physically it must be.

Chris