Interesting legal question
Discussion
I was talking to a chap at a wedding today and he asked me what the law was if somebody doesn't want their photo taken. Delving deeper it turned out that he's a nightclub bouncer and he'd had to eject somebody from his club. There was a bit of a scuffle, the evictee fell over and got a bash etc. The evictee's mates tried to take a photo of the bouncer as some kind of evidence. Bouncer told them not to photograph him, but they did anyway. Bouncer then grabbed the camera and deleted the files.
Who was in the wrong, if anybody?
Who was in the wrong, if anybody?
. Happy days. Andy M said:
Definitely the bouncer. Deleting the pictures is assault IIRC...
Deleting the files is assault??!! Its wrong, but not assault. Its not theft as there is no intent to deprive the owner, its not assault as there is no intent to cause harm to the person.Probably some sort of public order crime, if it is in England...
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Inside or outside the club? Outside then the bouncer is in the wrong. Public place so you can't stop it. Inside however...
Good question - don't know. I'd agree that physically grabbing a camera forcefully from someone would seem to constitute assault, yes. The bouncer seemed to think that as he'd ordered someone not to take his photo, but that they had ignored his request, that put them in the wrong. So if it was inside, the score is Bouncer 1 (can't take photo on private property without permission), Victim 1 (assault). If it was outside, the score is Bouncer 0, Victim 1 (Gerrard, 54 mins)."You are reminded that under UK law, there are no restrictions on taking photographs in a public place or on photography of individuals, whether they are adults or minors. There is no right to privacy in a public place, although photographers are of course subject to the usual libel laws in the same way as any other citizen and should observe them. Equipment or film may not be confiscated, or images deleted by any person or officer unless a warrant for such action is issued. Any attempt without a warrant is considered assault under UK law."
That's just a precis of an extract of several laws that concern the taking of photographs in a public place. On the basis that the photos were taken outside the club in a public place, then the bouncer was in the wrong and was guilty of assault when he deleted the photos.
That's just a precis of an extract of several laws that concern the taking of photographs in a public place. On the basis that the photos were taken outside the club in a public place, then the bouncer was in the wrong and was guilty of assault when he deleted the photos.
Greendubber said:
Public place is any place where the general public have access to whether by payment or otherwise at the material time. A nightclub I think would come under a 'public place'. If it was a members only club then it wouldnt be a public place.
Not sure that this is correct, as a Shooping Centre would fit your description but IS a privately owen piece of land and the owvers can specify No Photography if they so wish. So even if the incident took place outside if the "club" owns the pand it is private and they can specify wether photography is allowed. Of course there is nothing to stop the "victim" or his friends moving off the private property, onto the "queens highway" for example, and taking the photographs from there.Taking the camera and deleting the photographs is illegal though, I believe, as it constitutes assult. I think that the legal way of going about getting the photographs destroyed is to call the police and they sort it out. Not 100% sure about that though!
Not a lawer but been following seveal threads about this.
Jon
Andy M said:
john185k said:
Andy M said:
Definitely the bouncer. Deleting the pictures is assault IIRC...
Deleting the files is assault??!! Its wrong, but not assault.I can't see a bouncer getting hold of the camera without violence or the threat thereof...
Jonleeper said:
Greendubber said:
Public place is any place where the general public have access to whether by payment or otherwise at the material time. A nightclub I think would come under a 'public place'. If it was a members only club then it wouldnt be a public place.
Not sure that this is correct, as a Shooping Centre would fit your description but IS a privately owen piece of land and the owvers can specify No Photography if they so wish. So even if the incident took place outside if the "club" owns the pand it is private and they can specify wether photography is allowed. Of course there is nothing to stop the "victim" or his friends moving off the private property, onto the "queens highway" for example, and taking the photographs from there.Taking the camera and deleting the photographs is illegal though, I believe, as it constitutes assult. I think that the legal way of going about getting the photographs destroyed is to call the police and they sort it out. Not 100% sure about that though!
Not a lawer but been following seveal threads about this.
Jon
Think about all the photo's that get taken on nights out on camera phones or compacts....no ones trying to get them off you.
I'll have a double check at work later on though about the nightclub scenario and let you all know.
I know from taking pics inside a club in NI for a mag that I had to get permission to do so directly from the management of the club and once I was in I was being monitored quite closely throughout the evening by the bouncers, without the official approval there wasn't a hope of me getting the camera in the door...
Thing is, these days almost everyone carries a camera around with them, even if it is low quality and strapped onto their mobile phone!
If a club didn't want any pictures taking, they would have to take everyone's phones off them!
And these camera phones are getting better and better - the Sony K810i that I have is 3.2Mp and has a proper flash!
I love taking pictures with it on nights out! You get some very interesting results!
I took this with a Motorola V3i - a very poor quality camera with no flash on a stag do, but I love the "feel" of it.
If a club didn't want any pictures taking, they would have to take everyone's phones off them!
And these camera phones are getting better and better - the Sony K810i that I have is 3.2Mp and has a proper flash!
I love taking pictures with it on nights out! You get some very interesting results!
I took this with a Motorola V3i - a very poor quality camera with no flash on a stag do, but I love the "feel" of it.
This URL was posted else where in this forum Law on Photography.
Basically you can take a photo of anyone in a public place. If the bouncer requested they stop, but they continued to purposely take photos of him, then this falls under harrasment - a criminal offence.
As to the grabbing the camera and deleting the photos - theft, and the grabbing of the camera could also be considered assault.
Basically you can take a photo of anyone in a public place. If the bouncer requested they stop, but they continued to purposely take photos of him, then this falls under harrasment - a criminal offence.
As to the grabbing the camera and deleting the photos - theft, and the grabbing of the camera could also be considered assault.
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