Nikon's (and Sony's) next move is now apparent (25 mega pix)
Discussion
Assuming Sony continue to sell their sensor to Nikon then this is an exciting development at the top of the market. Might push the d3 down in price a bit too 
Sony Develops 35mm full size CMOS Image Sensor with 24.81 Effective Mega pixel resolution and extremely high signal conversion speed for use in Digital SLR Cameras
~ All-pixel scan mode of 6.3 frame/s ~
Tokyo, Japan - Sony Corporation today announced the development of a 35mm full size (diagonal:43.3mm/Type 2.7) 24.81 effective megapixel, ultra-high speed high image quality CMOS image sensor designed to meet the increasing requirement for rapid image capture and advanced picture quality within digital SLR cameras.
Development background
In recent years, the demand for digital SLR cameras featuring high resolution and wide graduation ranges capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter has continued to increase, particularly among high-end amateur users. Additionally, the increasing user requirement to shoot from the same focal length and angle as 35mm film cameras using interchangeable lenses has led to significant interest in the development of 35mm, full size CMOS image sensors.
However, there are a number of technical challenges to developing full (large) size image sensors, such as the propagation delay caused by using extended power circuitry and signal lines, and the difficulty of maintaining uniform sensitivity and signal saturation across the surface of the screen.
Furthermore, because current semiconductor exposure systems are unable to cover the entire chip surface of 35mm full size CMOS image sensors, multiple exposures are required. This results in the difficulty of accurately controlling exposure variance and matching circuit patterns.
Advantages of this device
The newly developed CMOS image sensor combines unique circuit design technology with Sony's advanced fabrication expertise, including a system of joining multiple exposed patterns together and advanced planarization for minimizing fluctuation, to realize 35mm, full size, 24.81 effective megapixel resolution. Sony's"Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique"also provides each column within the sensor with its own A/D converter, minimizing image degradation caused by the noise that arises during analog processing while at the same time delivering an extremely high signal conversion speed.
The enhanced image quality generated by the sensor's 24.81 effective megapixel resolution, wide range of graduation expression achieved by its full size broad dynamic range, and the low noise, high resolution, ultra-responsive performance provided by Sony's Column-Parallel A/D Conversion technique enable it to meet the ever-increasing requirements within high performance digital SLR cameras.
Sony will target for mass production of this CMOS image sensor within this year.
＜Major features＞
１）High picture quality in 35mm full size image sensor with 24.81M effective pixels
２）"Column-Parallel A/D Conversion method" achieves high S/N and high-speed imaging
・CDS/PGA(24dB)Circuit （PGA: Programmable Gain Amplifier）
・12bit-AD Converter on chip
・Diversified readout mode
・All-pixel scan mode 6.3 frame/s (12bit)
・Window readout
３）High-speed digital output（12 channel parallel LVDS output）
＜Device Structure＞
Image size Diagonal width 43.3mm (Type 2.7)
Total number of pixels 6236(H) x 4124(V) approx. 25.72M pixels
Number of effective pixels 6104(H) x 4064(V) approx.24.81M pixels
Number of active pixels 6096(H) x 4056(V) approx.24.73M pixels
Chip size 41.0mm (H) x 31.9 mm (V)
Unit cell size 5.94μm (H) x 5.94μm (V)
Sony Develops 35mm full size CMOS Image Sensor with 24.81 Effective Mega pixel resolution and extremely high signal conversion speed for use in Digital SLR Cameras
~ All-pixel scan mode of 6.3 frame/s ~
Tokyo, Japan - Sony Corporation today announced the development of a 35mm full size (diagonal:43.3mm/Type 2.7) 24.81 effective megapixel, ultra-high speed high image quality CMOS image sensor designed to meet the increasing requirement for rapid image capture and advanced picture quality within digital SLR cameras.
Development background
In recent years, the demand for digital SLR cameras featuring high resolution and wide graduation ranges capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter has continued to increase, particularly among high-end amateur users. Additionally, the increasing user requirement to shoot from the same focal length and angle as 35mm film cameras using interchangeable lenses has led to significant interest in the development of 35mm, full size CMOS image sensors.
However, there are a number of technical challenges to developing full (large) size image sensors, such as the propagation delay caused by using extended power circuitry and signal lines, and the difficulty of maintaining uniform sensitivity and signal saturation across the surface of the screen.
Furthermore, because current semiconductor exposure systems are unable to cover the entire chip surface of 35mm full size CMOS image sensors, multiple exposures are required. This results in the difficulty of accurately controlling exposure variance and matching circuit patterns.
Advantages of this device
The newly developed CMOS image sensor combines unique circuit design technology with Sony's advanced fabrication expertise, including a system of joining multiple exposed patterns together and advanced planarization for minimizing fluctuation, to realize 35mm, full size, 24.81 effective megapixel resolution. Sony's"Column-Parallel A/D Conversion Technique"also provides each column within the sensor with its own A/D converter, minimizing image degradation caused by the noise that arises during analog processing while at the same time delivering an extremely high signal conversion speed.
The enhanced image quality generated by the sensor's 24.81 effective megapixel resolution, wide range of graduation expression achieved by its full size broad dynamic range, and the low noise, high resolution, ultra-responsive performance provided by Sony's Column-Parallel A/D Conversion technique enable it to meet the ever-increasing requirements within high performance digital SLR cameras.
Sony will target for mass production of this CMOS image sensor within this year.
＜Major features＞
１）High picture quality in 35mm full size image sensor with 24.81M effective pixels
２）"Column-Parallel A/D Conversion method" achieves high S/N and high-speed imaging
・CDS/PGA(24dB)Circuit （PGA: Programmable Gain Amplifier）
・12bit-AD Converter on chip
・Diversified readout mode
・All-pixel scan mode 6.3 frame/s (12bit)
・Window readout
３）High-speed digital output（12 channel parallel LVDS output）
＜Device Structure＞
Image size Diagonal width 43.3mm (Type 2.7)
Total number of pixels 6236(H) x 4124(V) approx. 25.72M pixels
Number of effective pixels 6104(H) x 4064(V) approx.24.81M pixels
Number of active pixels 6096(H) x 4056(V) approx.24.73M pixels
Chip size 41.0mm (H) x 31.9 mm (V)
Unit cell size 5.94μm (H) x 5.94μm (V)
Andy M said:
Excellent news, though, the only bit I'm a bit confused about is it being 12 bit when all new models are currently 14?
Not sure how much that matters? More important is the quality of what the sensor captures surely?25 megapixels is crazy - crop mode with that sensor will be really usable!
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08013109sonypma....
p.s. hope my extrapolation that Nikon will get this too is accurate. Apparently Sony are launching it in a compact body so presumably a 5d competitor. If its at that money I have to wonder where that leaves the competition (Nikon included).
http://gizmodo.com/351196/sony-decides-to-use-25+m...
Edited by DanH on Thursday 31st January 20:08
Hmm, I dunno. 
Thoughts from Nikonians website points out that Sony wouldn't be announcing this if this was the one to go into the next Nikon body, since Nikon would spec up their requirements and own it, even if Sony built.
Also, for a 35mm frame size, the current 12Mpixel is about the sweet limit for the current top range lens resolution. (Personally, I am wrestling with what my next lens purchase ought to be to do justice to my relatively newly acquired 12Mpixel D2x!)
But I look forward to be proven wrong!
Thoughts from Nikonians website points out that Sony wouldn't be announcing this if this was the one to go into the next Nikon body, since Nikon would spec up their requirements and own it, even if Sony built.Also, for a 35mm frame size, the current 12Mpixel is about the sweet limit for the current top range lens resolution. (Personally, I am wrestling with what my next lens purchase ought to be to do justice to my relatively newly acquired 12Mpixel D2x!)
But I look forward to be proven wrong!
beano500 said:
Hmm, I dunno. Thoughts from Nikonians website points out that Sony wouldn't be announcing this if this was the one to go into the next Nikon body, since Nikon would spec up their requirements and own it, even if Sony built.
Also, for a 35mm frame size, the current 12Mpixel is about the sweet limit for the current top range lens resolution. (Personally, I am wrestling with what my next lens purchase ought to be to do justice to my relatively newly acquired 12Mpixel D2x!)
But I look forward to be proven wrong!
Well Sony share the 12 megapixel sensor with Nikon on the d300, and apparently that has similar pixel density to this new sensor so noise will be no worse than the d300 in principal. I think most would find that ok? Thoughts from Nikonians website points out that Sony wouldn't be announcing this if this was the one to go into the next Nikon body, since Nikon would spec up their requirements and own it, even if Sony built.Also, for a 35mm frame size, the current 12Mpixel is about the sweet limit for the current top range lens resolution. (Personally, I am wrestling with what my next lens purchase ought to be to do justice to my relatively newly acquired 12Mpixel D2x!)
But I look forward to be proven wrong!
RobDickinson said:
Simpo Two said:
If it was 25Mp in medium format then they'd really be breaking new ground.
Because theres a lack of 25mp digital MF backs?Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 31st January 23:45
DanH said:
Andy M said:
Excellent news, though, the only bit I'm a bit confused about is it being 12 bit when all new models are currently 14?
Not sure how much that matters? More important is the quality of what the sensor captures surely?Simpo Two said:
25Mp in a 35mm format seems rather pointless unless you want to print A1. I'd rather take fewer pixels and lower noise, and someone else can have the galactic file sizes.
16MP prints <- this -> big with no problems! 
I didn't get to see it myself, but apparently there was no noticable graining, even though it was blown up to about 4ft x 6 ft!
Edited by ehasler on Friday 1st February 10:56
RobDickinson said:
Sony now have a 14mp sensor(in a camera) and this 24mp that nikon currently dont use.
12bit seems OK, less data but that doesnt affect dynamic range, doesnt seem the extra 2 bits are all that.
Have a look at: http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/14-bit-ra...12bit seems OK, less data but that doesnt affect dynamic range, doesnt seem the extra 2 bits are all that.
I'd prefer a 20mp 14 bit sensor to a 25mp 12 bit.
ehasler said:
More bits does increase the quality - hence one of the reasons medium format backs will give better images for the same pixel count, as they are typically 16 bit.
Though digital backs are advertised to have 16 bit, I think it's accepted that they supposedly have 'only' 14. How they get away with advertising that they have more, I don't know...14 bits is pointless if its beyond the dynamic range resolution of the sensor. To be honest I'm sketical as to how noticeable it is anyway given the displays and printers most of us use.
Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
DanH said:
14 bits is pointless if its beyond the dynamic range resolution of the sensor. To be honest I'm sketical as to how noticeable it is anyway given the displays and printers most of us use.
Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
Everything is pointless if it's beyond the DR of the sensor - life ain't worth living Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
A 14 bit image contains four times as much tonal information as a 12 bit, so graduations should be more accurate and pleasing. How often do you print your photos Dan?
If you print large I would think the difference should be noticeable.
DanH said:
14 bits is pointless if its beyond the dynamic range resolution of the sensor. To be honest I'm sketical as to how noticeable it is anyway given the displays and printers most of us use.
Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
It's not pointless as it does give better quality - see the link about your post for one example.Whilst I can see the difference between out of camera jpegs and raws, I can't see the difference with 14 bits turned on (on my D300 anyway).
Here's another for D300 users: http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/nikon-d30...
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff