Simple/Basic Internal Camera + Gimbal Setup
Discussion
Hi... I bought a DJO Osmo SE a few months ago in order to stabilise my phone and get internal footage for my overviews. I have researched how to use it and understand it - however I am not happy with what it is delivering. I think the issue MAY be my phone. Not sure.
I find the gimbal and motion can be tricky, occasionally it doesn't look straight or level and as it always moving about it can be hard to work out when you are at zero, or the start point. Also it doesn't move consistently like the drone inputs so there minor speed changes that I notice (most wouldn't). But the quality is also odd. I have a Samsung S21+ and it should be 4K / 60FPS however the internal videos I am doing are grainy and have visible noise. The phone apparently will shoot 8K, find that hard to believe.
I am interlacing some of the footage with high end themed drone videos - these clips are always perfect and I use Da Vinci Resolve to make them shine. The phone stuff just looks amateur in comparison. I am only using a very small amount of phone media in the videos however it stands out to me.
I am trying to iron these issues out but its hard work and I don't understand why it is happening. Both my last 2 videos have internal shots taken on my setup. I am creating some quality media for local business and I am conscious that this aspect of my work is the weak point. Nobody has said anything but I need to get on top of it so I can do full house walk throughs and be comfortable with the output. Is there an alternative handheld camera and gimbal setup I could find online / second hand to eradicate the phone entirely? Or any other advice?
I find the gimbal and motion can be tricky, occasionally it doesn't look straight or level and as it always moving about it can be hard to work out when you are at zero, or the start point. Also it doesn't move consistently like the drone inputs so there minor speed changes that I notice (most wouldn't). But the quality is also odd. I have a Samsung S21+ and it should be 4K / 60FPS however the internal videos I am doing are grainy and have visible noise. The phone apparently will shoot 8K, find that hard to believe.
I am interlacing some of the footage with high end themed drone videos - these clips are always perfect and I use Da Vinci Resolve to make them shine. The phone stuff just looks amateur in comparison. I am only using a very small amount of phone media in the videos however it stands out to me.
I am trying to iron these issues out but its hard work and I don't understand why it is happening. Both my last 2 videos have internal shots taken on my setup. I am creating some quality media for local business and I am conscious that this aspect of my work is the weak point. Nobody has said anything but I need to get on top of it so I can do full house walk throughs and be comfortable with the output. Is there an alternative handheld camera and gimbal setup I could find online / second hand to eradicate the phone entirely? Or any other advice?
Last issue first.
Check the basics: Both drone and phone should have identical settings as much as possible; frame rate, bit rate, resolution (keep in mind that not all 4Ks are the same), and iso setting.
I'm not familiar with your phone but many will adjust the iso automatically depending on the light. So, if your drone is shooting at 100 or 200 iso and your phone is using 800 or higher, you're going to notice regardless of the number of Ks resolution. The higher the iso the more noise (graining) you'll get. If everything is the same iso, the graining is less obvious but when you blend low with high, the difference is stark.
Using the denoise function in DR might help.
But, the challenge you have is that you are using footage from two sources that operate completely different colour science, image processing and optics. This will be the case in any two camera set up and requires a reasonable degree of expert grading to deal with.
Just as an aside, I jump between Resolve and Final Cut Pro and I find Final Cut Pro to be much more efficient and straightforward at clip matching. Resolve probably has the edge on the degree with which you can refine this but for anything that's only going be viewed on a phone, tablet or laptop, FCP gets the job done quicker.
However, there's one work around worth a try.
I'm assuming your drone is a DJi. If so, film in RAW (or LOG). There's a free LUT on the Dji site called 'D-Log to REC 709' - download this, load it into DR and apply it to the RAW clips. On your phone, also film in LOG or RAW. Then apply the same LUT to those clips. It will likely over saturate those clips but adjusting is then just adjusting saturation. Either way, you're closer to a comparative grade and quality between the two.
Gimbal..... The Osmo SE is a great little gimbal but it's not a pro device so the range of controls you'd get on an RS4 or similar are simply not going to be there. It isn't really designed for long-form flowing shots - more quick bursts. It's one of those things where improvement comes from technique rather that the tech.
However, there's a solution to solve both problems. Use the drone!
Drones still record even when not flying. So just fold the rotas back and use the drone as a hand-held camera with built in gimbal. You'll then irradiate the issue of differing quality clips from different types of camera.
Amazing bit of kit. They used this to film Adolescence and the upcoming F1 movie.
Check the basics: Both drone and phone should have identical settings as much as possible; frame rate, bit rate, resolution (keep in mind that not all 4Ks are the same), and iso setting.
I'm not familiar with your phone but many will adjust the iso automatically depending on the light. So, if your drone is shooting at 100 or 200 iso and your phone is using 800 or higher, you're going to notice regardless of the number of Ks resolution. The higher the iso the more noise (graining) you'll get. If everything is the same iso, the graining is less obvious but when you blend low with high, the difference is stark.
Using the denoise function in DR might help.
But, the challenge you have is that you are using footage from two sources that operate completely different colour science, image processing and optics. This will be the case in any two camera set up and requires a reasonable degree of expert grading to deal with.
Just as an aside, I jump between Resolve and Final Cut Pro and I find Final Cut Pro to be much more efficient and straightforward at clip matching. Resolve probably has the edge on the degree with which you can refine this but for anything that's only going be viewed on a phone, tablet or laptop, FCP gets the job done quicker.
However, there's one work around worth a try.
I'm assuming your drone is a DJi. If so, film in RAW (or LOG). There's a free LUT on the Dji site called 'D-Log to REC 709' - download this, load it into DR and apply it to the RAW clips. On your phone, also film in LOG or RAW. Then apply the same LUT to those clips. It will likely over saturate those clips but adjusting is then just adjusting saturation. Either way, you're closer to a comparative grade and quality between the two.
Gimbal..... The Osmo SE is a great little gimbal but it's not a pro device so the range of controls you'd get on an RS4 or similar are simply not going to be there. It isn't really designed for long-form flowing shots - more quick bursts. It's one of those things where improvement comes from technique rather that the tech.
However, there's a solution to solve both problems. Use the drone!
Drones still record even when not flying. So just fold the rotas back and use the drone as a hand-held camera with built in gimbal. You'll then irradiate the issue of differing quality clips from different types of camera.
Ubiquitous2024 said:
Is there an alternative handheld camera and gimbal setup I could find online
How much have you gotAmazing bit of kit. They used this to film Adolescence and the upcoming F1 movie.
Edited by StevieBee on Tuesday 1st April 23:07
I can't change the ISO on my phone video - only FPS and UHD which I have now changed from 60 to 30 to match the drone. Never knew about the denoise will look at that. Like I say I am getting away with it but the phone footage is vastly inferior IMHO. I have thought about using the drone, and can, however I would also need to then use the control pad to move the camera as well as hold it. It is possible, I might try it. Just thought it looked a bit amateur but it solves the issue.
Balancing on the Osmo - not sure - I do make sure that the white dots are aligned and generally it is, but when you then start moving the gimbal, you can get lost as to where it started, meaning what you think is pan level is actually at a slight angle. I can change it all in Da Vinci but I just get hesitant when using it.
That camera is above my budget. The issue is I am starting out, and despite posting loads of demo footage and doing things differently to the thousand other people trying to make money out of their drones, the fact is nobody is interested or prepared to pay for drone footage. I have even reached out to local drone operators who like me have business pages and websites, of those that have conversed with me they state work has been virtually non-existent since last year. So I am not prepared to shell out on adverts or equipment as I doubt I will ever need it. But I am prepared to pay a small amount to give myself the best chance. I have had a few local business reach out and ask for work, however this is all off the back of me contacting them and working hard to get some interest.
Balancing on the Osmo - not sure - I do make sure that the white dots are aligned and generally it is, but when you then start moving the gimbal, you can get lost as to where it started, meaning what you think is pan level is actually at a slight angle. I can change it all in Da Vinci but I just get hesitant when using it.
That camera is above my budget. The issue is I am starting out, and despite posting loads of demo footage and doing things differently to the thousand other people trying to make money out of their drones, the fact is nobody is interested or prepared to pay for drone footage. I have even reached out to local drone operators who like me have business pages and websites, of those that have conversed with me they state work has been virtually non-existent since last year. So I am not prepared to shell out on adverts or equipment as I doubt I will ever need it. But I am prepared to pay a small amount to give myself the best chance. I have had a few local business reach out and ask for work, however this is all off the back of me contacting them and working hard to get some interest.
Ubiquitous2024 said:
I can't change the ISO on my phone video - only FPS and UHD which I have now changed from 60 to 30 to match the drone.
OK then, so you'd be better off getting and using a DJI Osmo camera (their version of the Go Pro). This will give you a near perfect image match with the drone and a whole host of settings not available on your phone. I think there's a way to pair the two so that the settings you use on one are carried over to the other.Ubiquitous2024 said:
I have thought about using the drone, and can, however I would also need to then use the control pad to move the camera as well as hold it. It is possible, I might try it. Just thought it looked a bit amateur but it solves the issue.
Unless the client is on set with you, I wouldn't worry. They're paying for what you create, not how you create it. And don't forget your A-Camera is a mobile phone so not exactly what you'd call a pro-spec set up!.Ubiquitous2024 said:
Balancing on the Osmo - not sure - I do make sure that the white dots are aligned and generally it is, but when you then start moving the gimbal, you can get lost as to where it started, meaning what you think is pan level is actually at a slight angle. I can change it all in Da Vinci but I just get hesitant when using it.
The trick here is to shoot in 4k but edit to a lower resolution timeline: 2K or 1080. This gives your clips the space to crop without loss of quality which is what you need when straightening stuff out.Ubiquitous2024 said:
That camera is above my budget.
Mine too. And I'm a pro filmmaker - but no harm in having something aspirational Ubiquitous2024 said:
The issue is I am starting out, and despite posting loads of demo footage and doing things differently to the thousand other people trying to make money out of their drones, the fact is nobody is interested or prepared to pay for drone footage.
Drones simply add a bit of value to a photography or videography business and offer to clients. They're just another camera that happens to fly. They have also become commonplace and part of many photographer's / videographer's list of kit in the same way a tripod is. Other than very high-level TV and Film Production or Technical Survey Services, I know of nobody that makes a living or even side-hustle type income by offering Drone Filming services. I'm sure there's a few out there but will have almost certainly started many years ago before Drones became pro/am consumer items and invested heavily since.
would a ‘gopro’ work? they have some pretty decent built in image stabilisation, and can even put on ‘horizon lock’ and the frame stays perfectly level.
only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
I’m a complete rank amateur, but have made a couple of ‘walk through’ type videos of events/ trade show type events my wife has organised and they come out fine for social media type posts.
only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
I’m a complete rank amateur, but have made a couple of ‘walk through’ type videos of events/ trade show type events my wife has organised and they come out fine for social media type posts.
malks222 said:
would a ‘gopro’ work? they have some pretty decent built in image stabilisation, and can even put on ‘horizon lock’ and the frame stays perfectly level.
only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
The newer GoPros handle low light much better than the older models. Plus you can shoot LOG/RAW so you can pull out shadows for more in post.only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
But no small-form censor camera will ever be brilliant in low light. It's more a case of which one handles it the least worse.
StevieBee said:
Drones simply add a bit of value to a photography or videography business and offer to clients. They're just another camera that happens to fly. They have also become commonplace and part of many photographer's / videographer's list of kit in the same way a tripod is.
Other than very high-level TV and Film Production or Technical Survey Services, I know of nobody that makes a living or even side-hustle type income by offering Drone Filming services. I'm sure there's a few out there but will have almost certainly started many years ago before Drones became pro/am consumer items and invested heavily since.
All your comments are really interesting and I am finding this all out over time on my own. The issue I have is that I do I have a USP, just not a sellable or convincing one. I can actually fly my drone properly and will not do one dimensional overheads, or straight line flying. I also stitch my footage to a flow / storyline often matched to themed music. But the market for this is tiny and as you say, I don't have any other pro equipment or setup. My decent drone footage alone doesn't give me the full package but I have made some decent business adverts using solely the drone and also some phone footage. I would really welcome a chat if you ever have the time. You can also watch my latest video and tell me how amateur you think it is.Other than very high-level TV and Film Production or Technical Survey Services, I know of nobody that makes a living or even side-hustle type income by offering Drone Filming services. I'm sure there's a few out there but will have almost certainly started many years ago before Drones became pro/am consumer items and invested heavily since.
malks222 said:
would a ‘gopro’ work? they have some pretty decent built in image stabilisation, and can even put on ‘horizon lock’ and the frame stays perfectly level.
only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
I’m a complete rank amateur, but have made a couple of ‘walk through’ type videos of events/ trade show type events my wife has organised and they come out fine for social media type posts.
Great shout, hadn't considered - will research!only downside is they are not great in low light. but you can get all the iso/ frame rate settings you could ever need.
I’m a complete rank amateur, but have made a couple of ‘walk through’ type videos of events/ trade show type events my wife has organised and they come out fine for social media type posts.
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