Camera for son
Discussion
My lad seems to be enjoying his photography after his school trip, but I'm really disappointed with how the TG-6 performed for him - I've only ever used it underwater, where it's done a very respectable job, but for him, for some reason, it prioritised low-ISO over a sensible shutter speed, so everything is between 1/20th and 1/60th, which means a lot are blurry. And at wider angles there's a lot of vertical distortion, which I guess is par for the course with cheaper optics).
...so now he's less likely to drop it like a klutz, I'm thinking of getting him a proper camera for Christmas. But on a budget.
No point handing down one of my old DSLR bodies and getting him a kit lens - mine are both larger metal-bodies (20D and 7D), so too big and too heavy - I want to encourage him not put him off. But equally don't want to go spending close to £1k on one of the latest 'do everything' cameras.
At the top end (price and ability), a 4/3rds body like a Lumix G7 (any better suggestions?) will give him, from what I can see, 'near-SLR' levels of control and customisability in a smaller body. But he'd need a couple of lenses and be happy carrying and swapping them, and that does start stretching towards a grand unless I go 2nd hand.
...but the alternative is a cheap-to-mid-price bridge camera which isn't going to be upgradeable as he improves, so feels like it'll have a shorter lifespan.
And I don't know enough about either area, so I'm asking you good people where I should / shouldn't be looking, and whether 2nd hand 4/3rds and bridge cameras are (usually) a safe bet?
Thanks,
M.
...so now he's less likely to drop it like a klutz, I'm thinking of getting him a proper camera for Christmas. But on a budget.
No point handing down one of my old DSLR bodies and getting him a kit lens - mine are both larger metal-bodies (20D and 7D), so too big and too heavy - I want to encourage him not put him off. But equally don't want to go spending close to £1k on one of the latest 'do everything' cameras.
At the top end (price and ability), a 4/3rds body like a Lumix G7 (any better suggestions?) will give him, from what I can see, 'near-SLR' levels of control and customisability in a smaller body. But he'd need a couple of lenses and be happy carrying and swapping them, and that does start stretching towards a grand unless I go 2nd hand.
...but the alternative is a cheap-to-mid-price bridge camera which isn't going to be upgradeable as he improves, so feels like it'll have a shorter lifespan.
And I don't know enough about either area, so I'm asking you good people where I should / shouldn't be looking, and whether 2nd hand 4/3rds and bridge cameras are (usually) a safe bet?
Thanks,
M.
If he's really interested in properly learning manual photography then have you considered a 2nd hand Fujifilm XT-1?
No IBIS, but the longer lenses are available with OIS in lens.
£400 would get a 2nd hand XT-1 in excellent condition. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-x-t1/sk...
Weighs 393g.
They take very nice photos out of camera, with nice colour rendition and nice control interface too.
It's also a small and light body for a full featured APS-C camera.
A 18-55mm F/2.8-4 R LM OIS could be had for £260 or less. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-xf-18-5...
Only weighs 310g.
Equivalent focal length in full frame would be about 27mm to 82mm. Has optical stabilisation in the lens, and uses a linear motor which is quite fast to focus.
No IBIS, but the longer lenses are available with OIS in lens.
£400 would get a 2nd hand XT-1 in excellent condition. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-x-t1/sk...
Weighs 393g.
They take very nice photos out of camera, with nice colour rendition and nice control interface too.
It's also a small and light body for a full featured APS-C camera.
A 18-55mm F/2.8-4 R LM OIS could be had for £260 or less. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-xf-18-5...
Only weighs 310g.
Equivalent focal length in full frame would be about 27mm to 82mm. Has optical stabilisation in the lens, and uses a linear motor which is quite fast to focus.
I didn't notice how old your son is.
My lad is 8, and started off with a similar sounding rugged compact camera, which was OK for the hundreds of photos of the floor/people's legs/the occasional decent image when he was younger. Having proved himself sensible with that camera, I let him borrow my old compact - a Canon S90, which was decent back in the day, with manual controls etc. However, he got to the point where he was finding the limitations of that camera, especially with regards to auto focus and shooting things further away. As I already had a spare half decent Fuji telephoto lens, I figured that I would pick up an old Fuji body for him to use and share my lenses. But then I saw the price of what I though there acceptable Fuji bodies and applied man maths - I bought myself a new top of the range Fuji body so that he could use my old one.
He did take some decent photos over the summer, especially when we were on holiday, but he is less interested now that the weather has turned. But at least I have got myself a nice new camera.
My lad is 8, and started off with a similar sounding rugged compact camera, which was OK for the hundreds of photos of the floor/people's legs/the occasional decent image when he was younger. Having proved himself sensible with that camera, I let him borrow my old compact - a Canon S90, which was decent back in the day, with manual controls etc. However, he got to the point where he was finding the limitations of that camera, especially with regards to auto focus and shooting things further away. As I already had a spare half decent Fuji telephoto lens, I figured that I would pick up an old Fuji body for him to use and share my lenses. But then I saw the price of what I though there acceptable Fuji bodies and applied man maths - I bought myself a new top of the range Fuji body so that he could use my old one.
He did take some decent photos over the summer, especially when we were on holiday, but he is less interested now that the weather has turned. But at least I have got myself a nice new camera.
Another option would be the smaller Fuji bodies (maybe X-M or second hand X-A series if size and weight is an issue), good APSC sensor but light and compact.
Still interchangeable lenses to acquire, but Fuji XC lenses (their cheaper lighter lenses, same mount and compatibility as XF) can often be found fairly cheap second hand.
Still interchangeable lenses to acquire, but Fuji XC lenses (their cheaper lighter lenses, same mount and compatibility as XF) can often be found fairly cheap second hand.
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 9th November 21:26
I promise team Fuji did not coordinate those posts...
My lad gets on well with the X-T2 and 18-55 combo (and 55-200), but if I was buying for him I would go X-T20, as it is smaller, and has a switch to instantly set everything back to auto, which can be handy if you are learning, but something interesting comes along.
My lad gets on well with the X-T2 and 18-55 combo (and 55-200), but if I was buying for him I would go X-T20, as it is smaller, and has a switch to instantly set everything back to auto, which can be handy if you are learning, but something interesting comes along.
Edited by Craikeybaby on Saturday 9th November 21:27
Craikeybaby said:
I promise team Fuji did not coordinate those posts...
My lad gets on well with the X-T2 and 18-55 combo (and 55-200), but if I was buying for him I would go X-T20, as it is smaller, and has a switch to instantly set everything back to auto, which can be handy if you are learning, but something interesting comes along.
I shot only Nikon for many years, but since swapping a Z5 for a GFX 100s I'm sold on Fuji.My lad gets on well with the X-T2 and 18-55 combo (and 55-200), but if I was buying for him I would go X-T20, as it is smaller, and has a switch to instantly set everything back to auto, which can be handy if you are learning, but something interesting comes along.
Edited by Craikeybaby on Saturday 9th November 21:27
"This thread was sponsored by Fuji"
Wrekin - that's a really kind offer. You're about 90 minutes away from me, but I might take you up on it - want to do a little more research first and probably run it past my lad just to make sure he likes the look/idea of what I'm thinking. He's 12, BTW Craikey, but he's only this year started getting into taking photos, so I'm yet to be convinced he'll want to do a lot of 'manual' driving of the camera...I'd just like to give him the opportunity if his interest continues.
Everyone else - thanks for the advice...sounds like the smaller Fuji's have a good following.
Edit: After a little googling the XT-1 feels like a really interesting idea, and it looks cool. But add a couple of 2nd hand lenses and it's pushing the budget. Definitely not a 'no', but I'd want to be convinced this is a long-term hobby of his, as I won't need it if he gets bored. GH4 feels like a good price-compromise if it's small enough for him...might take him up to the local LCE or Jessops, see if they've anything he can handle for a bit...
Edited by havoc on Sunday 10th November 12:17
IIRC an X-T10 has the same sensor as the X-T1 in a similar style but smaller/lighter/cheaper body (same relationship between newer versions X-T20 & X-T2, X-T30 & X-T3 etc) for another option - don't have the same weather sealing as the single digit models though.
The GH4 being kindly offered for free above is obviously excellent value though!
The GH4 being kindly offered for free above is obviously excellent value though!
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 10th November 22:24
havoc said:
"This thread was sponsored by Fuji"
Wrekin - that's a really kind offer. You're about 90 minutes away from me, but I might take you up on it - want to do a little more research first and probably run it past my lad just to make sure he likes the look/idea of what I'm thinking. He's 12, BTW Craikey, but he's only this year started getting into taking photos, so I'm yet to be convinced he'll want to do a lot of 'manual' driving of the camera...I'd just like to give him the opportunity if his interest continues.
Everyone else - thanks for the advice...sounds like the smaller Fuji's have a good following.
Edit: After a little googling the XT-1 feels like a really interesting idea, and it looks cool. But add a couple of 2nd hand lenses and it's pushing the budget. Definitely not a 'no', but I'd want to be convinced this is a long-term hobby of his, as I won't need it if he gets bored. GH4 feels like a good price-compromise if it's small enough for him...might take him up to the local LCE or Jessops, see if they've anything he can handle for a bit...
Edited by havoc on Sunday 10th November 12:17
If you buy cheaper or less popular cameras the resale isn't great.
OK, quick update to this thread...
Went into our nearest LCE last weekend, they had a Canon M6, an M50 and a Fuji X-T30 (+ others in that range) in stock to play with, as well as a Canon 2000D which got dismissed early on. Nothing at all from Panasonic in stock and nothing comparable from Olympus, sadly.
I quite liked the retro style of the Fuji, and I liked the physical controls on both the M6 and the Fuji. Josh didn't like the look of the Fuji quite so much, and LCE's advice was to stick with Canon as I'd got a few lenses already. Not essential, but does feel pretty sensible.
They pitched the M50 as a downgrade from the M6, and at first sight it does look that way, but doing some research I'm nervous about the AF on the M6 (pretty much the only risk), and most commentators seem happy driving modern cameras via touch-screen and the M50 has a notably better AF and better video. Plus it has a built-in mic AND viewfinder, which would be more £ to bolt-on to the M6.
...so I'm now down to the following shortlist:
- M6 (or M5, which is same but with built-in viewfinder) - cheapest option (<£400 with kit lens), good manual controls, not sure if the AF will frustrate him as he's not yet got the patience he might need.
- M50 II - c.£100 more than an M5/6, differences as above, and control dials aside will feel and handle very similar to the M6 he liked.
- R50, as Wex have £200 off them right now, and it avoids going down the M-series dead-end. But it's still going to be £700 (so +£200 or so vs the M50 II, albeit new vs 2nd hand) with a kit lens and another £100 for an EF-adaptor. Which is a very pricey Xmas present for a 12y.o...
Really do appreciate the offer though!
Went into our nearest LCE last weekend, they had a Canon M6, an M50 and a Fuji X-T30 (+ others in that range) in stock to play with, as well as a Canon 2000D which got dismissed early on. Nothing at all from Panasonic in stock and nothing comparable from Olympus, sadly.
I quite liked the retro style of the Fuji, and I liked the physical controls on both the M6 and the Fuji. Josh didn't like the look of the Fuji quite so much, and LCE's advice was to stick with Canon as I'd got a few lenses already. Not essential, but does feel pretty sensible.
They pitched the M50 as a downgrade from the M6, and at first sight it does look that way, but doing some research I'm nervous about the AF on the M6 (pretty much the only risk), and most commentators seem happy driving modern cameras via touch-screen and the M50 has a notably better AF and better video. Plus it has a built-in mic AND viewfinder, which would be more £ to bolt-on to the M6.
...so I'm now down to the following shortlist:
- M6 (or M5, which is same but with built-in viewfinder) - cheapest option (<£400 with kit lens), good manual controls, not sure if the AF will frustrate him as he's not yet got the patience he might need.
- M50 II - c.£100 more than an M5/6, differences as above, and control dials aside will feel and handle very similar to the M6 he liked.
- R50, as Wex have £200 off them right now, and it avoids going down the M-series dead-end. But it's still going to be £700 (so +£200 or so vs the M50 II, albeit new vs 2nd hand) with a kit lens and another £100 for an EF-adaptor. Which is a very pricey Xmas present for a 12y.o...
WrekinCrew said:
I have a GH4 body you can have for free.
I feel guilty looking a gift horse in the mouth, but the commonality with my lenses (older and newer) feels like too good an option to ignore, and the M6/M5/M50 look the right size for him right now and all have an APS-C sensor. Really do appreciate the offer though!
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