Another 'What Camera' thread - for Beginners

[Welsh Pirate]

I'm appealing to the PH collective about what sort of camera to buy.

I currently have this old thing:



For a long time I've been wanting to get a better camera, so I've been looking around. I want something light and compact (no DSLRs), but have been struggling to work out exactly what sort of camera would suit me best.

Requirements -

a good all rounder for someone who is starting out in getting interested in photography
budget - under £500 ideally, but willing to stretch if it'll get me something significantly better
would prefer second hand
not bothered about recording functionality

So far the following cameras seem to be good options:

Sony Cyber-shot RX100 III or IV
Fujifilm X100 (budget creep)

Has anyone got any other suggestions/opinions? Am I missing anything obvious? Am I looking at the right sort of camera?

Any advice/comments/suggestions gratefully received! Thank you!

[LuS1fer]

I have a Canon SX740HS with a flip screen and 40x zoom.

I also have a Panasonic TZ100 which has a 1" sensor but only 10x zoom.

For me, these cameras are unnecessarily complicated and the photos I take are no better than those I took 10 years ago on similar Canons and Panasonics.

The TZ confuses the hell out of me with all its menus and it's harder to get the photo right, even on auto.

For me, it's the Canon that always gets the nod. The flip screen is key, allowing low and high level photos and "selfies" and the auto setting is about right. The long zoom can be a bit grainy but allows you to capture things you can't see over distance.

I would therefore not get carried away with features as photos I took 15 years ago on a Panasonic TZ30 still look great, even now. I don't use the 4k on either as my computer struggles with it.

When they die, my key buying feature will be a flip screen and at least 20x zoom and less menus.

Edited by LuS1fer on Wednesday 14th August 11:52

[some bloke]

I have a DSLR but I generally use a Panasonic Lumix TZ80. They are light, have a pretty good zoom, shoot RAW and can be use with aperture or shutter priority or full manual. The only thing I wish it was better at is focusing using a wide aperture but the benefits outweigh that.

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camc...

[Simpo Two]

Welsh Pirate said:

I currently have this old thing:



For a long time I've been wanting to get a better camera, so I've been looking around. I want something light and compact (no DSLRs), but have been struggling to work out exactly what sort of camera would suit me best.

Requirements -

a good all rounder for someone who is starting out in getting interested in photography
budget - under £500 ideally, but willing to stretch if it'll get me something significantly better
would prefer second hand
not bothered about recording functionality

Just being contrary, but what's wrong with it? It's fine for someone starting out in photography, the budget is £0, it's second hand and it doesn't shoot video. Would the objective really be about getting a shiny new toy? (it usually is!)

[tog]

I agree with Simpo, but if you decide you do want something new my advice is always go into a camera shop and find one that feels comfortable to use. There are no truly bad cameras these days, so the most important thing is that you enjoy using it. Handling a variety of cameras will let you find one that suits you. I realise that is less convenient if you are looking at second hand cameras, but if it is awkward to hold or use then it's wasted money – you will not use it and will just carry on using a phone like everyone else!

[satans worm]

First thing to ask yourself, what is it about photography makes you want to 'get into it'

What's your goal?

Do you want to be in sports, portraits, street photography, landscapes, macro, studio, car etc?

Without knowing your goal it would be impossible for you to select a correct camera for you to start on as each discipline requires its own specific equipment

Its interesting that you said that your not interested in an SLR, it suggests your more about getting a good photo without understand the basics (nothing wrong with that at all) but if so then i would go the camera phone route as the software they have allow them to create amazing photos (considering the sensor and lens) with no knowledge of what the camera is doing.

If you want to learn about shutter speed, aperture etc then really you need an SLR IMO, and your budget is more than enough to get a decent secondhand basic kit

You can go the guaranteed route and buy from MPB etc, im more of a risk taker and would go for a better camera off Facebook /ebay, bought several old film medium format cameras this way (2 from Japan) and never had an issue, still, it is a risk buying with no warrantee of any sorts

Have a big think about hat you need to spend, dont buy it unless you have exhausted your results with the current phone/ camera that you have, GAS is a reality in photography, only for the shiny new toy to sit on a shelf gather dust and the bank balance to be missing its funds, ofcourse i would not know personally about this at all.......

[Welsh Pirate]

Thank you all for your replies. Plenty for me to think on/mull over and clarify my thinking.

Simpo Two said:

Just being contrary, but what's wrong with it? It's fine for someone starting out in photography, the budget is £0, it's second hand and it doesn't shoot video. Would the objective really be about getting a shiny new toy? (it usually is!)

You're right. I've had this camera for a good few years and in many ways it's very good. However many of the settings are automatic, so for example if you want a close up shot with the background blurred, it struggles - you can't adjust the settings. The effects that it offers (black & white, vivid etc) also aren't particularly to my taste and this is an area that I'd really like to explore/develop.

tog said:

if you decide you do want something new my advice is always go into a camera shop and find one that feels comfortable to use. There are no truly bad cameras these days, so the most important thing is that you enjoy using it. Handling a variety of cameras will let you find one that suits you. I realise that is less convenient if you are looking at second hand cameras, but if it is awkward to hold or use then it's wasted money – you will not use it and will just carry on using a phone like everyone else!

Really good shout, thank you.

satans worm said:

What's your goal?

Broadly, I'm interested in landscapes, street photography, possibly some macro and anything mechanical.

satans worm said:

Its interesting that you said that your not interested in an SLR, it suggests your more about getting a good photo without understand the basics (nothing wrong with that at all) but if so then i would go the camera phone route as the software they have allow them to create amazing photos (considering the sensor and lens) with no knowledge of what the camera is doing.

If you want to learn about shutter speed, aperture etc then really you need an SLR IMO, and your budget is more than enough to get a decent secondhand basic kit

The reason I've discounted an SLR is simply the bulk and it would sit on the shelf, unused. And you're right - at the moment I don't understand the basics of getting a good photo - it's more luck than judgement. My current camera doesn't allow me to experiment with settings, which is why I'm looking for something which allows me to learn but which is small enough for me to carry while cycling or just out and about.

satans worm said:

You can go the guaranteed route and buy from MPB etc, im more of a risk taker and would go for a better camera off Facebook /ebay, bought several old film medium format cameras this way (2 from Japan) and never had an issue, still, it is a risk buying with no warrantee of any sorts

I think MPB is a good shout - at this stage I'd be happy to buy from them - a halfway house of sorts.

satans worm said:

Have a big think about hat you need to spend, dont buy it unless you have exhausted your results with the current phone/ camera that you have, GAS is a reality in photography, only for the shiny new toy to sit on a shelf gather dust and the bank balance to be missing its funds, ofcourse i would not know personally about this at all.......

Yep, been there, got the t-shirt! Of course being older and wiser (ahem) it's why I'm asking on PH instead of going out and buying the first shiny thing that I see...

Thank you all. Much appreciated.

[Simpo Two]

Welsh Pirate said:

You're right. I've had this camera for a good few years and in many ways it's very good. However many of the settings are automatic, so for example if you want a close up shot with the background blurred, it struggles - you can't adjust the settings. The effects that it offers (black & white, vivid etc) also aren't particularly to my taste and this is an area that I'd really like to explore/develop.

Better control is a valid argument - eg of aperture and shutter speed and handily placed so you can change them in a second rather than ferreting about in menus.

Effects - I wouldn't bother with in-camera effects, you'd be better off getting an image manipulation programme and playing about on a big screen at your leisure.

If you want the camera to be the basis of a proper learning curve then I'd steer you towards a DSLR or mirrorless equivalent. Something where you can change lenses and there's enough space to have lots of buttons. It would be the centre of a system that can evolve as your expertise grows.

As Tog says, getting your paws on one is essential before buying IMHO - technical stuff and bullet points aside, ergonomics are important.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Definitely go to a camera shop and have a good play around with them so you can gauge size weight features and cost.

I have a LUMIX TZ100 which is a pretty good all rounder with plenty of options although I do agree with the fact that the menus are quite complex. The 10x zoom can be a limiting factor although the digital zoom isn’t too bad providing you don’t want to blow up to poster size of course!

The size is great since it can easily go in a pocket when required although the lack of a decent viewfinder is a downside for me as a glasses wearer.

It may be worth looking at the LUMIX bridge cameras with the 1inch sensors as they have a bigger zoom and offer a DLSR type viewfinder. I bought a second hand one for a safari trip and it produced some pretty decent (in my opinion pictures) and was easy to use.

An example of one of my favourites

[isaldiri]

As mentioned, for a 'quick and good' picture, if you have any kind of recent (ie last say 2-3 years) mobile phone, it has a pretty damn good camera for that already.

If you need the better picture quality etc then would suggest only considering something with a 1" sensor or bigger like the RX100s and similar which allows you to exercise a fair bit more control over the picture if needed without going the whole hog (and bulk) of a full frame DSLR or mirrorless.

Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 14th August 16:04

[Derek Smith]

some bloke said:

I have a DSLR but I generally use a Panasonic Lumix TZ80. They are light, have a pretty good zoom, shoot RAW and can be use with aperture or shutter priority or full manual. The only thing I wish it was better at is focusing using a wide aperture but the benefits outweigh that.

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camc...

I have a TZ25. I've had it since it first was imported, that's about 18 years. It's been used at the family hack, going to far off places with my kids, for parties and weddings abroad, in places with dubious reputations. It's spent the rest of its life in my glove locker. Fabulous camera. Great images, easy and quick to use, and hardly noticeable. I can disappear into the background.

I have 3 x Panasonic MFTs but I always took the TZ when on a shoot. It recently spent two months in east Asia with my eldest and his family, and on its return, the stabilizer had malfunctioned and it wouldn't focus. He's lucky I still talk to him. Occasionally.

I miss it.

I know phone cameras have largely usurped compacts, but by the time someone has focused their mobile on a subject, I've taken three shots, and am looking around for a different angle.

I wonder how long it would have lasted with a bit more care.

Recommended.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Derek Smith said:

some bloke said:

I have a DSLR but I generally use a Panasonic Lumix TZ80. They are light, have a pretty good zoom, shoot RAW and can be use with aperture or shutter priority or full manual. The only thing I wish it was better at is focusing using a wide aperture but the benefits outweigh that.

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camc...

I have a TZ25. I've had it since it first was imported, that's about 18 years. It's been used at the family hack, going to far off places with my kids, for parties and weddings abroad, in places with dubious reputations. It's spent the rest of its life in my glove locker. Fabulous camera. Great images, easy and quick to use, and hardly noticeable. I can disappear into the background.

I have 3 x Panasonic MFTs but I always took the TZ when on a shoot. It recently spent two months in east Asia with my eldest and his family, and on its return, the stabilizer had malfunctioned and it wouldn't focus. He's lucky I still talk to him. Occasionally.

I miss it.

I know phone cameras have largely usurped compacts, but by the time someone has focused their mobile on a subject, I've taken three shots, and am looking around for a different angle.

I wonder how long it would have lasted with a bit more care.

Recommended.

I don’t think they do the Tz25 anymore and I am even sure about the TZ80 either.

In any event I don’t think either have a 1” sensor which does make a difference as alluded to earlier.

My pick would be the TZ100 (if still available)

[MesoForm]

The Fuji X100 mentioned in the OP is a fixed lens (no zoom) camera so you’ll lose out on flexibility by going down that route.

[Greendubber]

I have a Sony RX100 iii and it's excellent. Small enough to pocket, plenty of settings/manual, flip screen, pop up view finder for when you need it etc. Feels well built as well, which is always nice.

Worth a trip to a shop to get hands on with a few I reckon.

[some bloke]

Boringvolvodriver said:

I don’t think they do the Tz25 anymore and I am even sure about the TZ80 either.

In any event I don’t think either have a 1” sensor which does make a difference as alluded to earlier.

My pick would be the TZ100 (if still available)

I've had the TZ80 a couple of years at least - the TZ40 I had before that stopped working after I got a zap from an electric fence and dropped it on a rock. A TZ100 or what ever the current model is would be a good choice but as mentioned, get along to a camera shop and see how they feel.

It looks like the TZ100 has a 1" sensor:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2482086803/panasonic...

but if the photos are really only being looked at on a phone, does it matter? I find I can crop images nicely in PS, the digital zoom gets a bit lumpy at higher magnification, but it's a pocket camera which is always going to be less than a DSLR with a bazooka lens.

The Panasonic image app is quite good too, useful for remote control of the camera, and transferring photos to a smartphone.

[Derek Smith]

some bloke said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

I don’t think they do the Tz25 anymore and I am even sure about the TZ80 either.

In any event I don’t think either have a 1” sensor which does make a difference as alluded to earlier.

My pick would be the TZ100 (if still available)

I've had the TZ80 a couple of years at least - the TZ40 I had before that stopped working after I got a zap from an electric fence and dropped it on a rock. A TZ100 or what ever the current model is would be a good choice but as mentioned, get along to a camera shop and see how they feel.

It looks like the TZ100 has a 1" sensor:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2482086803/panasonic...

but if the photos are really only being looked at on a phone, does it matter? I find I can crop images nicely in PS, the digital zoom gets a bit lumpy at higher magnification, but it's a pocket camera which is always going to be less than a DSLR with a bazooka lens.

The Panasonic image app is quite good too, useful for remote control of the camera, and transferring photos to a smartphone.

I agree about the sensor size. More is better, but smaller can be more than enough for small screens, or even a desktop. It would not be the deciding factor if I was choosing a compact. I've got a 20mp G9 and a 16mp GH2 and it's impossible to tell the difference on YouTube videos.

The Panasonic app is great. It allows birds to st on your camera when you put it near the birdfeeder while you hide in the conservatory.

[Riley Blue]

Lumix TZ95 user here, bought because I can no longer hold my hefty DSLR plus long zoom. The Lumix does everything I need plus I can slip it into a jacket or trouser pocket.

Only downside is its complexity, to get to grips with that a thorough read and understanding of the manual is required, all 300+ pages of it.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Riley Blue said:

Lumix TZ95 user here, bought because I can no longer hold my hefty DSLR plus long zoom. The Lumix does everything I need plus I can slip it into a jacket or trouser pocket.

Only downside is its complexity, to get to grips with that a thorough read and understanding of the manual is required, all 300+ pages of it.

And still I find myself getting confused and ending up with a setting I didn’t want!

[Welsh Pirate]

Thank you all - plenty for me to think about!

[Bill]

I'd echo what's above pretty much. Have had a DSLR and more recently a bridge camera but both were bulky and rarely taken out. I ended up deciding between an RX100 and a TZ100. Both have a 1" sensor, the RX is arguably better at that price point but the compromise is the limited zoom compared to the TZ so I got the Panasonic and am very happy.