Help - Lightroom Classic / CR3 files

[havoc]

So I've just treated myself to a new toy (R7 - thanks for the advice last month - it's bloody lovely now I've turned most of the auto-assists off that were fighting me), and have been playing with it at Silverstone.

Got home, imported photos day-by-day to my old (!) desktop version of Lightroom.
...and I've just realised it's not been importing the RAW files as it doesn't recognise them (so I've now lost the RAW files from Fri and Sat as I deleted the card each morning ).


So I've done some googling:-
- Adobe, contrary to what they promised when they released the subscription model, have ceased updates for Lightroom Classic. So I can't just download the CR3 plug-in.
- Adobe's suggested solution is a DNG converter. Except DNGs aren't perfect, and they're an Adobe product not a universal one.
- The simple alternative seems to be to update my version of Lightroom. Except I can't just do that - I need so subscribe to "Creative Cloud" first (£10/mth!), but conveniently that looks like it only gives me their new "Lightroom-lite", and I need to double my subscription to £240/year ( ) if I want access to all the tools I already have in the full-fat Lightroom Classic!

Now £240 a year for the privilege of just continuing to do what I've been doing for ages feels a little like daylight robbery to this skinflint.


...so does anyone have any other bright ideas?
- Workarounds that don't involve DNG?
- Alternatives to Lightroom that are worthwhile? I don't mind losing the cataloguing facility if I have to, but the workflow side of LR is very useful.

[eltawater]

You actually only need the creative cloud photography plan which includes lightroom classic, currently the activation code is on sale with Amazon for £89.99 for the year.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Creative-Cloud-Phot...

It's what I use for lightroom classic.

[Whoozit]

TBF the Cloud version of LRC continues to get updates making the subscription worthwhile. I find that the recent addition of layer masks, including with bits of AI, means PS editing is only necessary for a small fraction of images.

But I'm strictly landscape so that could be less relevant for you.

[havoc]

eltawater said:

You actually only need the creative cloud photography plan which includes lightroom classic, currently the activation code is on sale with Amazon for £89.99 for the year.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Creative-Cloud-Phot...

It's what I use for lightroom classic.

I'd gone to their website and they appeared to only be bundling that with the Cloud Storage, hence my frustration. £90 is palatable...but for only one year stings a bit.



Anyone used Capture One or DxO instead? Capture One is discounted right now down to £169 for a perpetual licence (without updates, mind...but see brackets below), and DxO is only £200 for a perpetual licence - that's only 2 years of Adobe CC spend.
(For ref, I've been soldiering on with my old Lightroom for about 7 or 8 years...)

[C n C]

Out of interest, what is the problem/issue with using DNG files?
I'm genuinely interested in case I'm missing something I was previously unaware of.

I'm still using the last non-subscription version of Photoshop and Bridge (CS6), and convert all my RAW files from the Canon R5 to DNG format using the free Adobe DNG converter, before sorting them in Bridge and editing in Camera RAW/Photoshop.

I've been using this workflow for quite a few years (previously with a Canon 5Dmk3), and it works well (for me obviously).

When you do the DNG convertion, there's the option to also embed the original CR3 raw file as well (but at twice the file size, so I just go with DNG).

Another advantage is that if you make adjustments in Camera RAW, so stuff like white balance, crop, shadows/highlights etc.. these adjustments are stored in the DNG file. I always found it quite messy when editing older Canon raw files directly, as the edits were stored in a separate .XMP sidecar file, so when moving image files about, you had to remember to also move the relevant sidecar files, or you'd lose the adjustments you'd made.

... which, given your statement about DNG not being perfect, has me wondering what I'm potentially missing out on.

[Mr Pointy]

Have you tried recovering the RAW files or did you use the cards again after deleting them?

[havoc]

CnC - it's mainly that with the DNG file, unless you port the RAW file too (not an option with CR3 with my current software), the minute you edit them you lose the original image - the edits overwrite the file (this is the reason for the sidecar file - preserve the original RAW in case you want to do something different a second time).

...and given they're Adobe proprietary format, if I did ever change software (DxO PhotoLab 6 is looking a good option right now), I'm not certain they'd be readable.

Pointy - I reused the bloody card, didn't I?!?
(It's not the end of the world in this instance - I've a ton of photos from prior years at the Silverstone Classic, this weekend was mainly a social one for me and some practice with the new body, make sure I could drive it properly.)


Quick update - Capture One looks fantastic, but the learning curve doesn't and I've not the time to invest in it right now. DxO feels like a good option (better editing software, much better noise reduction,but cataloguing still not up to Lr standards) as long as I don't need to keep updating it regularly*, in which case from a cost-benefit perspective I may as well stick with Lr and suck up £90 a year as part of the price of our hobby...


* I don't tend to change kit that often - this is the first new bit of kit since I got a 2nd hand 5D3 pre-Covid.

[Elderly]

havoc said:

Anyone used Capture One or DxO instead? ……, and DxO is only £200 for a perpetual licence - that's only 2 years of Adobe CC spend.
()

DxO offer occasional discounts, sometimes by as much as 50%.

As a paranoia back-up of last resort, I never re-use my cards and have accumulated 17 years worth of them ….
…. in a small box .

[Tony1963]

Elderly said:

As a paranoia back-up of last resort, I never re-use my cards and have accumulated 17 years worth of them ….
…. in a small box .

Joking?

[StevieBee]

havoc said:

CnC - it's mainly that with the DNG file, unless you port the RAW file too (not an option with CR3 with my current software), the minute you edit them you lose the original image - the edits overwrite the file (this is the reason for the sidecar file - preserve the original RAW in case you want to do something different a second time).

I'm pretty certain the all variants of LR are non-destructive.

The only time a JPEG is created is when you export but you can undo edits and effects and revert back to the original file if you wish and so retain all the HDR benefits post export.

When you import the images, the actual files are copied to a folder in the Lightroom Library somewhere on your hard drive. You are essentially editing a proxy of that file. I might be wrong but have often had cause to go back and make further changes to both DNG and RAW files and have been able to do so without issue.

[Whoozit]

StevieBee said:

I'm pretty certain the all variants of LR are non-destructive.

The only time a JPEG is created is when you export but you can undo edits and effects and revert back to the original file if you wish and so retain all the HDR benefits post export.

When you import the images, the actual files are copied to a folder in the Lightroom Library somewhere on your hard drive. You are essentially editing a proxy of that file. I might be wrong but have often had cause to go back and make further changes to both DNG and RAW files and have been able to do so without issue.

With one important exception...I download my RAWs from the camera to a local folder. On my laptop, that's on an SD card being used as a drive. In that specific situation, when importing the RAWs LR creates a full set of DNGs in the Pictures folder on the C: drive and points to those not the RAWs. Bloody annoying since the reason I'm using the SD card is because the hard drive is too small.

Edited by Whoozit on Wednesday 30th August 09:38

[havoc]

StevieBee said:

I'm pretty certain the all variants of LR are non-destructive.

They are - I'm talking about Adobe's suggested work-around to existing Lr customers who don't want to upgrade to £120/year.
(i.e. their CR3-to-DNG converter to permit older Lr releases to read the photos I've just taken)

[Craikeybaby]

I always thought DNG was Adobe's format, but "open". The edits are stored as steps within the DNG, so there's still the history that can be reversed.

Having said that, I think that the Adobe Photography Plan is good value, especially when on offer.

[southerndriver]

havoc said:

CnC - it's mainly that with the DNG file, unless you port the RAW file too (not an option with CR3 with my current software), the minute you edit them you lose the original image - the edits overwrite the file (this is the reason for the sidecar file - preserve the original RAW in case you want to do something different a second time).

Not sure where you got this from – with Lightroom it’s plain wrong. (I can't speak for other editors that I haven't used)
Everything CnC says is correct. I’ve been using the same workflow for years with my .CR3 files.
Lightroom is a non-destructive editor. All the edits are stored in the catalog and the original file – whether CR2, Jpeg, DNG etc – is never changed. The DNG is NOT overwritten.

To answer your original question, this is how to achieve what you want with Lightroom Classic:
- Use the Adobe DNG converter to convert the .CR3 files to .DNG. Do not bother embedding the CR3 in the DNG.
- Store the .CR3 files somewhere safe so you always have them to go back to.
- Import the .DNG files into Lightroom and away you go.

[Craikeybaby]

With CR3 and jpeg, the Lightroom changes are written to the catalogue and to an XMP sidecar file, which is stored alongside the original file. However, with DNG files, the changes are written to the file, but as steps to apply to the original file.

[southerndriver]

I’ve gone back to check my edited images and lightroom settings. My DNG files are not modified by the editing process (checked using the Modified date in Windows explorer) and sidecar XMP files are not created.

A quick Google search flags up that the Metadata tab in the Edit > Catalog settings menu option in Lightroom Classic allows you to choose to write editing information to the metadata in the original files and/or to XMP sidecar files. It’s an option that I’ve chosen not to use so my DNG images are unchanged. You can choose to have the images modified if you wish.