Risk Assessment and insurance
Discussion
Hi
I've been searching around but hoping someone may be able to offer some pointers if you've done similar...
We've secured a film location where me and a friend are making a film for youtube. They've asked for an RA and insurance details, which has me stumped.
We're just a couple of guys making youtube videos, no official company or money making involved. I accept these things are required so are there any recommendations for "1 day insurance" that covers film production?
I'm not really worried about covering our items, it's just a couple of gopros, but I imagine they'll want something in place should we destroy their runway.
It's gone from just us messing around to "professional production" in a matter of minutes
I've been searching around but hoping someone may be able to offer some pointers if you've done similar...
We've secured a film location where me and a friend are making a film for youtube. They've asked for an RA and insurance details, which has me stumped.
We're just a couple of guys making youtube videos, no official company or money making involved. I accept these things are required so are there any recommendations for "1 day insurance" that covers film production?
I'm not really worried about covering our items, it's just a couple of gopros, but I imagine they'll want something in place should we destroy their runway.
It's gone from just us messing around to "professional production" in a matter of minutes
you mention runway, I'm assuming that you are driving something on it, at which point it can often be cheaper to hire a professional driver / company that provides professional drivers as they come with the insurance cover. I can recommend one of these if you need it.
In terms of where to get 1 day cover for something like this, I am not sure how easy it would be without having done it before. I assume it must be possible but it could be expensive.
In terms of where to get 1 day cover for something like this, I am not sure how easy it would be without having done it before. I assume it must be possible but it could be expensive.
55palfers said:
What sort of film are you making?
What equipment are you using? Not just the photographic stuff
How many people?
For how long?
Exactly what & where is the location?
1. A "road trip" film for our pokey youtube channel. We're "stopping" by the airport for a quick drag race and other predictable vehicle tests.What equipment are you using? Not just the photographic stuff
How many people?
For how long?
Exactly what & where is the location?
2. A couple of gopros. DSLR for B roll. a drone for the odd aerial shot (ATC permission granted)
3. Me and my brother.
4. We have the site for 5 hours.
5. Disused taxiway at Campletown airport.
I think insurance on the cars and equipment is straightforward enough, but I wasn't sure if PLI would be suitable or if there is some "super film maker" insurance you need to have to keep the venue happy. A several million quid PLI policy should cover it I'd have thought?
We're just a couple of enthusiasts who one day hope to have a massive youtube channel, but for now, we're just a couple of nobodies with a little more money to burn.
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:53
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:54
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:54
fat80b said:
you mention runway, I'm assuming that you are driving something on it, at which point it can often be cheaper to hire a professional driver / company that provides professional drivers as they come with the insurance cover. I can recommend one of these if you need it.
In terms of where to get 1 day cover for something like this, I am not sure how easy it would be without having done it before. I assume it must be possible but it could be expensive.
You may be right.In terms of where to get 1 day cover for something like this, I am not sure how easy it would be without having done it before. I assume it must be possible but it could be expensive.
My thinking so far was PLI (if possible) to cover damages to their site, leaving it up to us to insure the cars and the equipment. In terms of what paperwork they need, I assume it's just liability insurance.
Jazzy Jefferson said:
55palfers said:
What sort of film are you making?
What equipment are you using? Not just the photographic stuff
How many people?
For how long?
Exactly what & where is the location?
1. A "road trip" film for our pokey youtube channel. We're "stopping" by the airport for a quick drag race and other predictable vehicle tests.What equipment are you using? Not just the photographic stuff
How many people?
For how long?
Exactly what & where is the location?
2. A couple of gopros. DSLR for B roll. a drone for the odd aerial shot (ATC permission granted)
3. Me and my brother.
4. We have the site for 5 hours.
5. Disused taxiway at Campletown airport.
I think insurance on the cars and equipment is straightforward enough, but I wasn't sure if PLI would be suitable or if there is some "super film maker" insurance you need to have to keep the venue happy. A several million quid PLI policy should cover it I'd have thought?
We're just a couple of enthusiasts who one day hope to have a massive youtube channel, but for now, we're just a couple of nobodies with a little more money to burn.
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:53
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:54
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Thursday 9th September 17:54
Starter for ten.
Is the "drag racing" properly supervised and carried out by professional / suitably competent drivers?
Drug and alcohol testing policy.
Have the cars been suitably prepared?
Will cars be running with minimum fuel?
What arrangements are in place for transportation of fuel and re-fuelling?
Do you have emergency resources on site for any crashes / fires?
Are the public likely to be near? Crowd control measures and general site security.
Have you read this? https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg112.htm
And this https://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/risk/i...
55palfers said:
Okay..........
Starter for ten.
Is the "drag racing" properly supervised and carried out by professional / suitably competent drivers?
Drug and alcohol testing policy.
Have the cars been suitably prepared?
Will cars be running with minimum fuel?
What arrangements are in place for transportation of fuel and re-fuelling?
Do you have emergency resources on site for any crashes / fires?
Are the public likely to be near? Crowd control measures and general site security.
Have you read this? https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg112.htm
And this https://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/risk/i...
Certainly things for the risk assessment. Starter for ten.
Is the "drag racing" properly supervised and carried out by professional / suitably competent drivers?
Drug and alcohol testing policy.
Have the cars been suitably prepared?
Will cars be running with minimum fuel?
What arrangements are in place for transportation of fuel and re-fuelling?
Do you have emergency resources on site for any crashes / fires?
Are the public likely to be near? Crowd control measures and general site security.
Have you read this? https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg112.htm
And this https://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/risk/i...
As you have the intention to build the channel (and money to burn), it would be worth your while setting up a business (just a sole trader enterprise will be fine) and then buying business insurance to cover what you do. This will include public liability and the sort of cover such locations need to see. That will ease access to other locations in the future as they will all be asking for the same thing as well. Otherwise you'll be consigned to catching sneaky shots on industrial estates for ever.
It's easy to pour scorn on this sort of thing but seeing it from their perspective, if it goes Pete Tong, a lot can happen that can bite them on their rears if due processes were not followed.
Risk Assessments are simply a case of listing out the potential risks and hazards that exist and the mitigation you''ll apply for each. The first one you do is a PIA but then is simply a case of copy and paste in the future. But do be aware that listing is one thing, some will also want to see evidence. So if you've said that you'll have a first aid kit on set, make sure that do actually have one. If you haven't implemented the mitigations you've listed and something does happen, insurance companies may well use this to deny a claim too.
It all sounds a faff - and it is. But this is the world we live in. You can fight the system or roll with it. But asking forgiveness rather than permission can sometimes be a strategy that works as well.
HTH
It's easy to pour scorn on this sort of thing but seeing it from their perspective, if it goes Pete Tong, a lot can happen that can bite them on their rears if due processes were not followed.
Risk Assessments are simply a case of listing out the potential risks and hazards that exist and the mitigation you''ll apply for each. The first one you do is a PIA but then is simply a case of copy and paste in the future. But do be aware that listing is one thing, some will also want to see evidence. So if you've said that you'll have a first aid kit on set, make sure that do actually have one. If you haven't implemented the mitigations you've listed and something does happen, insurance companies may well use this to deny a claim too.
It all sounds a faff - and it is. But this is the world we live in. You can fight the system or roll with it. But asking forgiveness rather than permission can sometimes be a strategy that works as well.
HTH
If you're not well versed with RAMS (Risk Assessment and Method Statement), then you could be opening yourself up to a world of pain.
As an example of a risk assessment entry:
So to satisfy the requirements of the need for the RA, you have now identified a potential risk, you have sought mitigation for the risk (note: crashing aircraft can kill people, so the severity will never be below 5 unless probability can be reduced to 0). Additionally, further control measures to be implemented on the day seek to further mitigate the residual risk.
You should also demonstrate that you are seeking to achieve 'gold standard' with regard to risk reduction, and that if this cannot be achieved, the cause for lesser mitigation is down to others (documented proof required).
To achieve the above and show you are complying, you will now need a method statement stating how the works are to be conducted in compliance with the RA.
If you don't and a conflict occurs, you will be deeded to have ignored your RA, created or enhanced a risk and have been negligent.
Additionally, if you create an RA but missed a potential risk, should it occur, then again you will be deemed to have been at fault.
Both risk assessments and method statements will be reviewed by the insurer should an incident occur.
All in all, what you though would be a bit of fun with some cars and cameras could well turn into an utter ball-ache - but that's modern day elf n safety for you and it sounds like your hosts have now sent you down a path which is hard to ignore.
As an example of a risk assessment entry:
So to satisfy the requirements of the need for the RA, you have now identified a potential risk, you have sought mitigation for the risk (note: crashing aircraft can kill people, so the severity will never be below 5 unless probability can be reduced to 0). Additionally, further control measures to be implemented on the day seek to further mitigate the residual risk.
You should also demonstrate that you are seeking to achieve 'gold standard' with regard to risk reduction, and that if this cannot be achieved, the cause for lesser mitigation is down to others (documented proof required).
To achieve the above and show you are complying, you will now need a method statement stating how the works are to be conducted in compliance with the RA.
If you don't and a conflict occurs, you will be deeded to have ignored your RA, created or enhanced a risk and have been negligent.
Additionally, if you create an RA but missed a potential risk, should it occur, then again you will be deemed to have been at fault.
Both risk assessments and method statements will be reviewed by the insurer should an incident occur.
All in all, what you though would be a bit of fun with some cars and cameras could well turn into an utter ball-ache - but that's modern day elf n safety for you and it sounds like your hosts have now sent you down a path which is hard to ignore.
StevieBee said:
As you have the intention to build the channel (and money to burn), it would be worth your while setting up a business (just a sole trader enterprise will be fine) and then buying business insurance to cover what you do. This will include public liability and the sort of cover such locations need to see. That will ease access to other locations in the future as they will all be asking for the same thing as well. Otherwise you'll be consigned to catching sneaky shots on industrial estates for ever.
It's easy to pour scorn on this sort of thing but seeing it from their perspective, if it goes Pete Tong, a lot can happen that can bite them on their rears if due processes were not followed.
Risk Assessments are simply a case of listing out the potential risks and hazards that exist and the mitigation you''ll apply for each. The first one you do is a PIA but then is simply a case of copy and paste in the future. But do be aware that listing is one thing, some will also want to see evidence. So if you've said that you'll have a first aid kit on set, make sure that do actually have one. If you haven't implemented the mitigations you've listed and something does happen, insurance companies may well use this to deny a claim too.
It all sounds a faff - and it is. But this is the world we live in. You can fight the system or roll with it. But asking forgiveness rather than permission can sometimes be a strategy that works as well.
HTH
No no... you're quite right and we're trying to do it properly. Faff it is It's easy to pour scorn on this sort of thing but seeing it from their perspective, if it goes Pete Tong, a lot can happen that can bite them on their rears if due processes were not followed.
Risk Assessments are simply a case of listing out the potential risks and hazards that exist and the mitigation you''ll apply for each. The first one you do is a PIA but then is simply a case of copy and paste in the future. But do be aware that listing is one thing, some will also want to see evidence. So if you've said that you'll have a first aid kit on set, make sure that do actually have one. If you haven't implemented the mitigations you've listed and something does happen, insurance companies may well use this to deny a claim too.
It all sounds a faff - and it is. But this is the world we live in. You can fight the system or roll with it. But asking forgiveness rather than permission can sometimes be a strategy that works as well.
HTH
Ledaig said:
If you're not well versed with RAMS (Risk Assessment and Method Statement), then you could be opening yourself up to a world of pain.
As an example of a risk assessment entry:
So to satisfy the requirements of the need for the RA, you have now identified a potential risk, you have sought mitigation for the risk (note: crashing aircraft can kill people, so the severity will never be below 5 unless probability can be reduced to 0). Additionally, further control measures to be implemented on the day seek to further mitigate the residual risk.
You should also demonstrate that you are seeking to achieve 'gold standard' with regard to risk reduction, and that if this cannot be achieved, the cause for lesser mitigation is down to others (documented proof required).
To achieve the above and show you are complying, you will now need a method statement stating how the works are to be conducted in compliance with the RA.
If you don't and a conflict occurs, you will be deeded to have ignored your RA, created or enhanced a risk and have been negligent.
Additionally, if you create an RA but missed a potential risk, should it occur, then again you will be deemed to have been at fault.
Both risk assessments and method statements will be reviewed by the insurer should an incident occur.
All in all, what you though would be a bit of fun with some cars and cameras could well turn into an utter ball-ache - but that's modern day elf n safety for you and it sounds like your hosts have now sent you down a path which is hard to ignore.
Very good info indeed. We weren't expecting it to be easy but with no experience in such things, it's a bit of a minefield. Thanks for the reply. As an example of a risk assessment entry:
So to satisfy the requirements of the need for the RA, you have now identified a potential risk, you have sought mitigation for the risk (note: crashing aircraft can kill people, so the severity will never be below 5 unless probability can be reduced to 0). Additionally, further control measures to be implemented on the day seek to further mitigate the residual risk.
You should also demonstrate that you are seeking to achieve 'gold standard' with regard to risk reduction, and that if this cannot be achieved, the cause for lesser mitigation is down to others (documented proof required).
To achieve the above and show you are complying, you will now need a method statement stating how the works are to be conducted in compliance with the RA.
If you don't and a conflict occurs, you will be deeded to have ignored your RA, created or enhanced a risk and have been negligent.
Additionally, if you create an RA but missed a potential risk, should it occur, then again you will be deemed to have been at fault.
Both risk assessments and method statements will be reviewed by the insurer should an incident occur.
All in all, what you though would be a bit of fun with some cars and cameras could well turn into an utter ball-ache - but that's modern day elf n safety for you and it sounds like your hosts have now sent you down a path which is hard to ignore.
All you need to remember is to adequately document the additional significant hazards your activities will be introducing to the workplace and the reasonably practicable controls you have in place.
Your hosts will (should) already have RAs in place for the hazards intrinsic to their site and you should be briefed on these during your site induction as stuff that happens on their site is their responsibility. Hence their need to see and approve your RA.
Consider the stuff I have written about previously, use relevant elements from HSE publications and other motorsport bodies.
Focus on - The car, tyres, brakes, fuel, etc, The driver, the track condition, braking positions and run-off area, , the weather, emergency arrangements. etc., etc.
There is tons of useful material that can be freely plagiarised on the HSE web-site
Also. Read these as background info.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/richardhammond...
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebb...
Good luck.
Your hosts will (should) already have RAs in place for the hazards intrinsic to their site and you should be briefed on these during your site induction as stuff that happens on their site is their responsibility. Hence their need to see and approve your RA.
Consider the stuff I have written about previously, use relevant elements from HSE publications and other motorsport bodies.
Focus on - The car, tyres, brakes, fuel, etc, The driver, the track condition, braking positions and run-off area, , the weather, emergency arrangements. etc., etc.
There is tons of useful material that can be freely plagiarised on the HSE web-site
Also. Read these as background info.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/richardhammond...
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebb...
Good luck.
55palfers said:
All you need to remember is to adequately document the additional significant hazards your activities will be introducing to the workplace and the reasonably practicable controls you have in place.
Your hosts will (should) already have RAs in place for the hazards intrinsic to their site and you should be briefed on these during your site induction as stuff that happens on their site is their responsibility. Hence their need to see and approve your RA.
Consider the stuff I have written about previously, use relevant elements from HSE publications and other motorsport bodies.
Focus on - The car, tyres, brakes, fuel, etc, The driver, the track condition, braking positions and run-off area, , the weather, emergency arrangements. etc., etc.
There is tons of useful material that can be freely plagiarised on the HSE web-site
Also. Read these as background info.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/richardhammond...
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebb...
Good luck.
Sound advice, many thanks. Shall report back if this get sorted. Your hosts will (should) already have RAs in place for the hazards intrinsic to their site and you should be briefed on these during your site induction as stuff that happens on their site is their responsibility. Hence their need to see and approve your RA.
Consider the stuff I have written about previously, use relevant elements from HSE publications and other motorsport bodies.
Focus on - The car, tyres, brakes, fuel, etc, The driver, the track condition, braking positions and run-off area, , the weather, emergency arrangements. etc., etc.
There is tons of useful material that can be freely plagiarised on the HSE web-site
Also. Read these as background info.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/richardhammond...
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebb...
Good luck.
Reporting back..
Got home yesterday after a successful trip.
I was probably over thinking it really, I called my companies insurance co. who were able to offer a policy to keep all parties happy, a simple PLI "one off event policy" got us sorted. Our risk assessment was simple but covered the highest risk elements. We certainly had to approach it as a business but that wasn't an issue.
As for the venue... worth every penny and the "hassle." It's an amazing place.
Got home yesterday after a successful trip.
I was probably over thinking it really, I called my companies insurance co. who were able to offer a policy to keep all parties happy, a simple PLI "one off event policy" got us sorted. Our risk assessment was simple but covered the highest risk elements. We certainly had to approach it as a business but that wasn't an issue.
As for the venue... worth every penny and the "hassle." It's an amazing place.
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