Food YouTuber - New Camera/Lens - Budget: £1.4-£2K
Discussion
In October of last year, my wife and I decided to create a YouTube channel! It focuses on recipes (meals, bakes, bread etc.) and we feature our cats every now and again because ... who doesn't love cats?! My wife is a fantastic cook/baker and doesn't mind being on camera, whereas I love filming, editing, and all admin associated with running a YouTube channel. We're on track to hit 1000 subscribers in our first year and we've had one 'shorts' video go viral!
The one thing that annoys me is the quality of our footage. It's not terrible, but I feel it could be much better. I see other small food creators with beautiful clarity, depth and vividness. I've just started playing around with colour correction to help remove some of the 'yellowness' of our kitchen, but I still feel our camera lags behind. I know natural lighting is best, but our kitchen has a huge window behind us - and that's it. It's quite dark. I have two LED panels to provide lighting.
At present, we have a Canon 60D with EFS 18-200mm lens. It's not capable of 4K and it does not automatically focus, unless I hold the shutter button down or do it via the focus ring. Ideally, the next camera would offer 4K recording at 60fps, a really fast auto-focus and it needs a microphone in port. A flip screen would be nice, but not essential.
A few cameras that have popped up on my radar:
Sony Alpha ZV-E10L
Sony Alpha 6400
Sony Alpha 6600
Canon 90D
Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
So, an example of our footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYA2j-PQz5k
These guys use a Sony Alpha 7R IV and I love the quality, but I know this is an expensive camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZa4P--5jkw
The Blackmagic Design in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJpvBLrFR68
Which would be the best for the cash? I have no idea about lenses either! The 6600 offers the best features, but what lens?! I've not heard of the Blackmagic Design cinema camera before, but the image quality is impressive (for £1000) and the body does not restrict you to a certain manufacturer of lens! Again, no idea on what lens to choose!
Thanks!
TL;DR: Food Youtuber, mainly static shots/close-ups, need a new 4K capable camera. What would you buy for £1.4-£2K? Body and lens required!
The one thing that annoys me is the quality of our footage. It's not terrible, but I feel it could be much better. I see other small food creators with beautiful clarity, depth and vividness. I've just started playing around with colour correction to help remove some of the 'yellowness' of our kitchen, but I still feel our camera lags behind. I know natural lighting is best, but our kitchen has a huge window behind us - and that's it. It's quite dark. I have two LED panels to provide lighting.
At present, we have a Canon 60D with EFS 18-200mm lens. It's not capable of 4K and it does not automatically focus, unless I hold the shutter button down or do it via the focus ring. Ideally, the next camera would offer 4K recording at 60fps, a really fast auto-focus and it needs a microphone in port. A flip screen would be nice, but not essential.
A few cameras that have popped up on my radar:
Sony Alpha ZV-E10L
Sony Alpha 6400
Sony Alpha 6600
Canon 90D
Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
So, an example of our footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYA2j-PQz5k
These guys use a Sony Alpha 7R IV and I love the quality, but I know this is an expensive camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZa4P--5jkw
The Blackmagic Design in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJpvBLrFR68
Which would be the best for the cash? I have no idea about lenses either! The 6600 offers the best features, but what lens?! I've not heard of the Blackmagic Design cinema camera before, but the image quality is impressive (for £1000) and the body does not restrict you to a certain manufacturer of lens! Again, no idea on what lens to choose!
Thanks!
TL;DR: Food Youtuber, mainly static shots/close-ups, need a new 4K capable camera. What would you buy for £1.4-£2K? Body and lens required!
I don't think your video is too bad. The only obvious improvement I'd make is for the presenter shots - a longer lens from further away, if you can, would be more flattering.
IMHO the rival video looks better because it much nicer framing for the kitchen shots - a bigger kitchen maybe - and more moving camera work which is more natural and engaging to watch than loads of close ups. That's down to the cameraman and/or director, not the camera. Shallow DOF is easy with a fast lens, but you probably know that.
IMHO the rival video looks better because it much nicer framing for the kitchen shots - a bigger kitchen maybe - and more moving camera work which is more natural and engaging to watch than loads of close ups. That's down to the cameraman and/or director, not the camera. Shallow DOF is easy with a fast lens, but you probably know that.
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 17th August 16:30
Simpo Two said:
I don't think your video is too bad. The only obvious improvement I'd make is for the presenter shots - a longer lens from further away, if you can, would be more flattering.
IMHO the rival video looks better because it much nicer framing for the kitchen shots - a bigger kitchen maybe - and more moving camera work which is more natural and engaging to watch than loads of close ups. That's down to the cameraman and/or director, not the camera. Shallow DOF is easy with a fast lens, but you probably know that.
That's a great idea and one I'll try for our next video! The tripod/camera currently sits on our work surface for the introductions, hence why the shot is quite close. I think we've shied away from moving the camera further back, as the microphone is attached to the camera and moving further away from the subject results in poor sound quality and some echo. This could be rectified with a microphone on a boom, or moving to a lapel mic system. Perhaps something I should consider.IMHO the rival video looks better because it much nicer framing for the kitchen shots - a bigger kitchen maybe - and more moving camera work which is more natural and engaging to watch than loads of close ups. That's down to the cameraman and/or director, not the camera. Shallow DOF is easy with a fast lens, but you probably know that.
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 17th August 16:30
I'd love to do more moving camera work, but the 60D doesn't automatically focus. As soon as you move, it's a blur! As such, all of our shots are static for the time being; one of the reasons why I'd love to upgrade!
Thanks for the tips though!
Gad-Westy said:
This is way out of my knowledge zone but if you are looking at the black magic, have you thought about a panasonic GH5? Same mirco four thirds lens system and seems to be a staple choice for film makers. The m4/3 system has some superb lens options.
The GH5 is a consideration, as is the Nikon Z6. I believe the GH4/GH5 is used on the Grand Tour for some in-car shots, which is high praise. What lens would you recommend though? Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmarit 12-60mm? The Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 Art lens gets rave reviews, but I really have no idea what lens would be best for shooting food, indoors, fairly close up ... ??As mentioned, there's not a lot wrong with your videos.
Before you spend on cameras, might be worth delving more into colour grading and what you can do in edit. From what I can see, I suspect that there's much more your footage can give. There's some excellent courses on Udemy and this guy is worth investing some time to watch: https://larryjordan.com
You might find that by upping the iso and using an ND filter will richen the depth of colours.
Autofocus and video cameras do not generally make good bedfellows. I have a Nikon D850 which in stills mode has one of the best and most rapid autofocus systems available but flick to video mode and it's far more cumbersome.
Some of the smaller 'prosumer' cameras do offer decent autofocus - but at a cost. For a few years I used the Sony FDR-AX53 'Handycam'. As a turn-it-on-and-shoot type tool I found it peerless - but the trade off was that all I got was nice footage that ticked the nice footage box. Trying to get nice depth of field and creative shots was awkward. My daughter makes knitting videos and uses this now for which it is perfect.
To help with manual focus, I would strongly recommend investing in a field monitor - a small but larger screen that makes focusing by hand so much easier.
Another thing to look at are camera sliders - small conveyor belts to which the camera is attached and along which it moves back and forth. This can give some really nice subtle motion to shots were no natural motion is present. They're not cheap though. I made one myself last year using an old skateboard and drainage pipes - looks stupid but works a treat and cost me 20 quid!
Also worth looking at the TV cooking shows in a more critical manner. Saturday Kitchen tends to over-saturate the colours and contrasts. James Martin's show tends to adopt a more 'filmic', moody look. I'm not certain which I prefer but interesting to see the differences.
I'm not familiar with any of the camera's you've listed but from what I know, I'd say the Blackmagic will afford you the greatest range of options later on. And if you're using Davinci to edit, that's what it was originally made for!
One last thing..... invest in an echo remover plug in (I use Crumplepop Echo Remover). It will remove the kitcheny echo from the video and make a world of difference. You can do this using the native EQ in your edit software but a plug in is so much easier! Also on sound, if you're not already, use a quality external mic.
HTH
Before you spend on cameras, might be worth delving more into colour grading and what you can do in edit. From what I can see, I suspect that there's much more your footage can give. There's some excellent courses on Udemy and this guy is worth investing some time to watch: https://larryjordan.com
You might find that by upping the iso and using an ND filter will richen the depth of colours.
Autofocus and video cameras do not generally make good bedfellows. I have a Nikon D850 which in stills mode has one of the best and most rapid autofocus systems available but flick to video mode and it's far more cumbersome.
Some of the smaller 'prosumer' cameras do offer decent autofocus - but at a cost. For a few years I used the Sony FDR-AX53 'Handycam'. As a turn-it-on-and-shoot type tool I found it peerless - but the trade off was that all I got was nice footage that ticked the nice footage box. Trying to get nice depth of field and creative shots was awkward. My daughter makes knitting videos and uses this now for which it is perfect.
To help with manual focus, I would strongly recommend investing in a field monitor - a small but larger screen that makes focusing by hand so much easier.
Another thing to look at are camera sliders - small conveyor belts to which the camera is attached and along which it moves back and forth. This can give some really nice subtle motion to shots were no natural motion is present. They're not cheap though. I made one myself last year using an old skateboard and drainage pipes - looks stupid but works a treat and cost me 20 quid!
Also worth looking at the TV cooking shows in a more critical manner. Saturday Kitchen tends to over-saturate the colours and contrasts. James Martin's show tends to adopt a more 'filmic', moody look. I'm not certain which I prefer but interesting to see the differences.
I'm not familiar with any of the camera's you've listed but from what I know, I'd say the Blackmagic will afford you the greatest range of options later on. And if you're using Davinci to edit, that's what it was originally made for!
One last thing..... invest in an echo remover plug in (I use Crumplepop Echo Remover). It will remove the kitcheny echo from the video and make a world of difference. You can do this using the native EQ in your edit software but a plug in is so much easier! Also on sound, if you're not already, use a quality external mic.
HTH
Ikemi said:
That's a great idea and one I'll try for our next video! The tripod/camera currently sits on our work surface for the introductions, hence why the shot is quite close. I think we've shied away from moving the camera further back, as the microphone is attached to the camera and moving further away from the subject results in poor sound quality and some echo. This could be rectified with a microphone on a boom, or moving to a lapel mic system. Perhaps something I should consider.
I'd love to do more moving camera work, but the 60D doesn't automatically focus. As soon as you move, it's a blur! As such, all of our shots are static for the time being; one of the reasons why I'd love to upgrade!
Thanks for the tips though!
Glad it was helpful I'd love to do more moving camera work, but the 60D doesn't automatically focus. As soon as you move, it's a blur! As such, all of our shots are static for the time being; one of the reasons why I'd love to upgrade!
Thanks for the tips though!
So your video was compromised by the on-camera mic! You need a decent clip-on (Lavalier) mic. Boom mics pick up more extraneous sound like cars going past, air-conditioning etc.
With care you can move the camera and keep the distance from camera to subject the same, so no need to pull focus (which is what the pros do). So the answer is technique not more kit - no camera can know what you want to focus on. And proper video lenses should retain focus as you zoom, which will give some handy flexibility.
StevieBee said:
You might find that by upping the iso and using an ND filter will richen the depth of colours.
Not sure how that works... I'd concentrate on processing (now trendily called 'grading') to change the 'look'.StevieBee said:
Another thing to look at are camera sliders - small conveyor belts to which the camera is attached and along which it moves back and forth. This can give some really nice subtle motion to shots were no natural motion is present. They're not cheap though. I made one myself last year using an old skateboard and drainage pipes - looks stupid but works a treat and cost me 20 quid!
Yes, sliders are on-trend and an easy way to get some movement/visual interest without massively changing the shot. Just buy a nice one with electric action StevieBee said:
Also worth looking at the TV cooking shows in a more critical manner. Saturday Kitchen tends to over-saturate the colours and contrasts. James Martin's show tends to adopt a more 'filmic', moody look. I'm not certain which I prefer but interesting to see the differences.
I find Masterchef excellent for quality, camerawork and also the way the picture is edited to the music. Don't get distracted by over-saturation, filmic, moody or other such fluff, concentrate on getting well-exposed, lit and focused shots in the can. Add the fluff later if you have to - but IMHO your videos are about cooking, not 'how much video sauce can I add?'Ikemi said:
II've not heard of the Blackmagic Design cinema camera before, but the image quality is impressive (for £1000) and the body does not restrict you to a certain manufacturer of lens!
I have a Pocket 4K (4K seems a bit over kill for YouTube) and for the money it does indeed gives high image quality. Also comes with the full Studio version of Resolve (worth £264), but that has a very large learning curve if you want to get deep into it. There is a free version which is very capable on its own https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davincir... if you want to play. Or just use what you are familiar with. I have to use it for RAW, but it just gets better and better with every release.Lenses. You can mount any MFT directly on, some have more compatibility than others, there is an autofocus, which is a one click affair, you would have to check. The other problem is the size of the chip, so makes getting shallow DOF (if you want that), more of a problem. I use a MFT to EF speed booster which makes the sensor size more akin to Super35. I can adapt my Canon lenses (plus others, but adaptors on adaptors can get a bit clunky. You can also buy dumb adaptors, I have one for Leica M glass.
I also own a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens and it’s a great combo. You can rotate the element in the booster and achieve parfocal and almost eliminate breathing when you pull focus. I noticed that problem on one of those foods videos, at the end, the money shot (distracting to me, but most won’t notice). One thing to be aware of is compatibility with firmware, I did update mine on the camera and then the front dial wouldn’t adjust the aperture, so I downgraded and it works again.
The price is a bit misleading though, as depending how you use it has some failings. The big one is battery life, but most probably not a problem in your situation, just run it from the mains. I have mine rigged out with a cage, top handle, ssd holder with 500gb drive, Follow focus, variable ND, matte box and V mount battery and bright monitor (the large camera monitor is fine indoors).
Lav mic will help. Your kitchen looks quite sparse with lots of hard surfaces which is bouncing the sound around. You could put some rugs on the floor and hang fluffy towels or fabrics out of shot, that might help a bit. Also maybe a bit more colour, props in the background? I’m not a fan of jump zooms, I find them distracting. Not a fan of sliders, they get over used these days. Anyway, hope that is of some use….
90% of the problem with shooting decent quality video is getting the lighting right.
Whilst 4K looks great it comes with its own issues. Most people on YT will watch at 1080 or lower on tablets and phones so 4K is really wasted in most situations.
I would invest in lighting and a better ‘scene’….
Whilst 4K looks great it comes with its own issues. Most people on YT will watch at 1080 or lower on tablets and phones so 4K is really wasted in most situations.
I would invest in lighting and a better ‘scene’….
Simpo Two said:
StevieBee said:
You might find that by upping the iso and using an ND filter will richen the depth of colours.
Not sure how that works... I'd concentrate on processing (now trendily called 'grading') to change the 'look'.Simpo Two said:
Don't get distracted by over-saturation, filmic, moody or other such fluff, concentrate on getting well-exposed, lit and focused shots in the can. Add the fluff later if you have to - but IMHO your videos are about cooking, not 'how much video sauce can I add?'
Absolutely the base footage must be good. No amount of post editing will compensate for poor filming. However, I do think it good to develop a look and feel that’s unique to you as the various cooking shows on TV have done to the point where for many, you know what you’re looking at even before the chef appears on the screen. It’s all part of creating a visual ‘brand’ - important for TV but doubly important for You Tube because the competition is greater so you need something that sets you apart visually. It won’t define success on its own but goes towards the bigger picture ‘package’ that can - in many people’s mind - position you as either just another person doing cooking on the internet or something a little more.thebraketester said:
Whilst 4K looks great it comes with its own issues. Most people on YT will watch at 1080 or lower on tablets and phones so 4K is really wasted in most situations.
Plus a lot of people’s viewers default to lower resolution quality for viewing and don’t know that you can adjust this.However, 4K does afford enormous creative scope in terms of cropping. For example, a nice effect when shooting a static or slow moving object is sometimes to rotate the camera slightly as you move towards it. This requires some serious rigging to pull off in camera. With 4k, you can shoot in a static single position and apply the same effect in post. You can do this because you have the space around the target subject to enable the frame to rotate without the corners cropping out of frame.
Shoot in 4k. Edit in 1080!
Bacardi said:
I also own a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens and it’s a great combo. You can rotate the element in the booster and achieve parfocal...
That was the word I was looking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfocal_lens
Thank you so much for all the invaluable advice! I have taken all of this on board and will mull over the suggestions. Essentially, we will now:
-Experiment with our lighting units (position, angle, brightness, colour) to improve the overall quality of our footage.
-Experiment with colour grading to improve the overall quality and impact of our footage. (I've had a play in our most recent episode, but could probably do better!)
-Possibly look into purchasing an adjustable ND filter
-Bin the Rode shotgun microphone in favour of a lapel mic to help with echos/long distance shots.
-Try some long distance shots when talking to camera!
-Jazz up the background with some 'on brand' items; pictures, cat stuff, links to socials on fridge etc.
-Stick with the Canon 60D for the time being. Once monetised, then perhaps look at shooting 4K (and editing in 1080P) with a GH5 (or GH6 when released) with a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens!
-Maybe buy a motorized camera track slider, in time ...
Thanks all!
-Experiment with our lighting units (position, angle, brightness, colour) to improve the overall quality of our footage.
-Experiment with colour grading to improve the overall quality and impact of our footage. (I've had a play in our most recent episode, but could probably do better!)
-Possibly look into purchasing an adjustable ND filter
-Bin the Rode shotgun microphone in favour of a lapel mic to help with echos/long distance shots.
-Try some long distance shots when talking to camera!
-Jazz up the background with some 'on brand' items; pictures, cat stuff, links to socials on fridge etc.
-Stick with the Canon 60D for the time being. Once monetised, then perhaps look at shooting 4K (and editing in 1080P) with a GH5 (or GH6 when released) with a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens!
-Maybe buy a motorized camera track slider, in time ...
Thanks all!
You don't need an ND filter IMHO. There is no situation indoors where you are going to want to lessen the amount of light coming in.
Get the colour balance correct in camera. Unless you are shooting some kind of RAW format you can't fix it properly afterwards.
Lighting, lighting, and lighting again. Get lovely lighting. There are countless tutorials about lighting. Learn about colour temperature.
Nice shallow depth of field via a fast lens, and I would consider a track system to give some gentle moves, they can make a world of difference.
Shoot 4k and downconvert to HD for Youtube. You'll need a decent PC but I would strongly recommend this. 60FPS to give lovely slow motion is good. Maybe even 120FPS too. (I think it's big bucks for 4k 120FPS, so this stuff might need to only be shot in HD).
But the main one for me. Forget all of the above. You want subscribers, not an Emmy. Content is king so don't think "wow, look at the quality of that footage" think "wow, look how many subscribers they have, how did they get to that many?"
Get the colour balance correct in camera. Unless you are shooting some kind of RAW format you can't fix it properly afterwards.
Lighting, lighting, and lighting again. Get lovely lighting. There are countless tutorials about lighting. Learn about colour temperature.
Nice shallow depth of field via a fast lens, and I would consider a track system to give some gentle moves, they can make a world of difference.
Shoot 4k and downconvert to HD for Youtube. You'll need a decent PC but I would strongly recommend this. 60FPS to give lovely slow motion is good. Maybe even 120FPS too. (I think it's big bucks for 4k 120FPS, so this stuff might need to only be shot in HD).
But the main one for me. Forget all of the above. You want subscribers, not an Emmy. Content is king so don't think "wow, look at the quality of that footage" think "wow, look how many subscribers they have, how did they get to that many?"
SCEtoAUX said:
You don't need an ND filter IMHO.
Yes, that was a red herring.On lighting, as well as 'position, angle, brightness, colour' - an important aspect is the SIZE of the light - ie area. A small light source gives sharp shadows and contrasty faces, and vice versa.
For amusement I sometimes attend amateur film club meetings. They have the fond idea that adding a bit of frosted plastic onto a small light makes it 'diffuse'. No, it just makes it dimmer! So have a look at softboxes, or LED panels if budget allows. Some LED panels have the advantage of giving different colour temps. Personally where skin tones are involved I like it just a tad warmer than neutral.
NB You can get a quick and easy soft look by bouncing a small bright light source off a white ceiling - because the light source is then the ceiling.
Simpo Two said:
Bacardi said:
I also own a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens and it’s a great combo. You can rotate the element in the booster and achieve parfocal...
That was the word I was looking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parfocal_lens
Best value for money camera you can buy at the moment with 4K 60fps (and most importantly 10bit colour) is the Fuji X-T3 / X-T4.
You can pick them up with a (really good) kit lens for less than £1500.
But as others have said, get your lighting and sound nailed first - then look at upgrading
Good budget sound would be a Rode wireless go with Sennheiser ME 2-II lapel
Good budget lighting would be a Aputure Amaran 100 or 200 along with a softbox/octobox.
You can pick them up with a (really good) kit lens for less than £1500.
But as others have said, get your lighting and sound nailed first - then look at upgrading
Good budget sound would be a Rode wireless go with Sennheiser ME 2-II lapel
Good budget lighting would be a Aputure Amaran 100 or 200 along with a softbox/octobox.
Edited by Phunk on Friday 20th August 22:37
Phunk said:
SCEtoAUX said:
Shoot 4k and downconvert to HD for Youtube.
Don't do this, if anything do it the other way around. Shoot HD and upscale to 4K for YouTube, YouTube compresses it wayyyy less then.Phunk said:
SCEtoAUX said:
Shoot 4k and downconvert to HD for Youtube.
Don't do this, if anything do it the other way around. Shoot HD and upscale to 4K for YouTube, YouTube compresses it wayyyy less then.Simpo Two said:
Phunk said:
SCEtoAUX said:
Shoot 4k and downconvert to HD for Youtube.
Don't do this, if anything do it the other way around. Shoot HD and upscale to 4K for YouTube, YouTube compresses it wayyyy less then.Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff