Those who predicted the demise of Canon

[Tony1963]

Where are they now?
Canon’s mirrorless R cameras and associated lenses are wiping the floor with Sony and Nikon, it would seem, yet only about 18 months ago some were saying they’d be too late to the game to survive.

Funny how the keyboard warriors get it so wrong, as with Rolex.

[thebraketester]

Literally have never heard that.

[Tony1963]

Literally?

[thebraketester]

Tony1963 said:

Literally?

Sorry, terrible English.

“I cannot say I have heard of the aforementioned predicted demise of Canon”

[Tony1963]

I can’t be bothered to trawl through the endless posts, but there certainly were a few people aiming venom at Canon. Why do that, unless you have insider knowledge?

[Simpo Two]

What constitutes 'wiping the floor'?

[Gad-Westy]

I don't really imagine any of these companies are feeling too great about being in the camera game right now. The products and lenses coming out from all the major players are truly very impressive but they have all had to focus all of their attention on very high end products with higher margins because the pile-em-high, sell-em cheap market that used to be the bread and butter for all camera companies has completely evaporated and middle ground is starting to disappear too. Feels like they are all fighting over scraps at the moment and that there will be several more casualties yet. I'm glad Pentax have somehow endured so far though I have no idea how and Nikon camera division seem to have been on the brink for at least 3 years. Panasonic seem to be losing their USP and Olympus' future is still wholly uncertain too. It's not looking very rosy at present and it doesn't feel like better news is around the corner any time soon.

[Tony1963]

@ Gad-Westy

You’re right there. The Covid situation is hurting everyone, but Canon seem hopeful that they’ll pull through. I hope so!

[Gad-Westy]

Tony1963 said:

@ Gad-Westy

You’re right there. The Covid situation is hurting everyone, but Canon seem hopeful that they’ll pull through. I hope so!

Indeed, though I was more referring to the relentless take over of mobile phones. Destroyed the compact market, and is slowly gobbling it's way through the amateur/enthusiast market too. The pace has been relentless. I think I read somewhere that 2010 was the all time peak of the camera market and yet it is now a 10th of the size. Don't quote me exactly on that but if I'm even close that's a meteoric decline. 10 years ago, things could not have looked rosier, every man and his dog was buying a 'proper' camera. Now they're all sat in a cupboard somewhere never to see daylight again.

[Matt..]

The problem that I see now is that cameras are incredibly expensive. All these mirrorless bodies coming out are £2-£5k. If you want a basic full frame mirrorless setup you're easily looking at £4k. It seems to be 2x the price it should be. How is it sustainable?

I'm looking to move on from my 5dmk2 but can't see how it's financially sensible to get new mirrorless gear. I'd get a Canon EOS R6 but the build quality is arguably worse than my 5d, and that is a problem for my usage. The R5 that has better build is over £4k.

Canon EOS R6 = £2,500
It's meant to be a mirrorless equivalent of the 6dmk2 level.
Canon EOS 6dmk2 (at launch) = £1,700 (dropped to £1,300 within a couple of months)

Canon EOS R5 = £4,200
Canon EOS 5dmk4 (at launch) = £3,500 (dropped to £2,500 within a couple of months)

It's crazy how much more expensive these mirrorless bodies are.

[Tony1963]

Matt.. said:

The problem that I see now is that cameras are incredibly expensive. All these mirrorless bodies coming out are £2-£5k. If you want a basic full frame mirrorless setup you're easily looking at £4k. It seems to be 2x the price it should be. How is it sustainable?

I'm looking to move on from my 5dmk2 but can't see how it's financially sensible to get new mirrorless gear. I'd get a Canon EOS R6 but the build quality is arguably worse than my 5d, and that is a problem for my usage. The R5 that has better build is over £4k.

Canon EOS R6 = £2,500
It's meant to be a mirrorless equivalent of the 6dmk2 level.
Canon EOS 6dmk2 (at launch) = £1,700 (dropped to £1,300 within a couple of months)

Canon EOS R5 = £4,200
Canon EOS 5dmk4 (at launch) = £3,500 (dropped to £2,500 within a couple of months)

It's crazy how much more expensive these mirrorless bodies are.

Me, acting as devilled avocado...

I suppose they want their development costs back. It's a completely new system that is also compatible with lenses going back 33 years.

I remember being in a camera shop in the early/mid 80s when I was looking at an Olympus OM20. Another customer was looking at a new Canon F1, and the price of the thing shocked me. I've no memory of what the price was, I might have fainted!

The R5 and R6 will drop in price soon enough.

[RDMcG]

Matt.. said:

The problem that I see now is that cameras are incredibly expensive. All these mirrorless bodies coming out are £2-£5k. If you want a basic full frame mirrorless setup you're easily looking at £4k. It seems to be 2x the price it should be. How is it sustainable?

I'm looking to move on from my 5dmk2 but can't see how it's financially sensible to get new mirrorless gear. I'd get a Canon EOS R6 but the build quality is arguably worse than my 5d, and that is a problem for my usage. The R5 that has better build is over £4k.

Canon EOS R6 = £2,500
It's meant to be a mirrorless equivalent of the 6dmk2 level.
Canon EOS 6dmk2 (at launch) = £1,700 (dropped to £1,300 within a couple of months)

Canon EOS R5 = £4,200
Canon EOS 5dmk4 (at launch) = £3,500 (dropped to £2,500 within a couple of months)

It's crazy how much more expensive these mirrorless bodies are.

Its good though - I have both the 5D.4 and the EOS R5- it is much lighter. not being a pro not anything in optical quality, but being able to do things like hold focus on someone's eyes while they're moving is quite good.

However ,for most people the 5D4 is a wonderful camera
.

[Matt..]

Tony1963 said:

Me, acting as devilled avocado...

I suppose they want their development costs back...

It's an interesting choice though as they're essentially shrinking their market that's already been massively shrinking.

Also worth noting that people can get very attached to a camera system. Push too far with pricing and they will move system and never come back.


(Some of this could be me being a little annoyed at the cost of getting a new camera!)

[Tony1963]

Matt.. said:

It's an interesting choice though as they're essentially shrinking their market that's already been massively shrinking.

Also worth noting that people can get very attached to a camera system. Push too far with pricing and they will move system and never come back.


(Some of this could be me being a little annoyed at the cost of getting a new camera!)

Do you ‘need’ a new camera? I love my 5D3, and although the 4 is better, would I make better photos with it? Or would I be better off buying a used 1DX?
Nope. Learn to use my eyes more and more. That’s the key. Then when my camera really is the limitation, then it’s time to move forward.

[Matt..]

Tony1963 said:

Do you ‘need’ a new camera? I love my 5D3, and although the 4 is better, would I make better photos with it? Or would I be better off buying a used 1DX?
Nope. Learn to use my eyes more and more. That’s the key. Then when my camera really is the limitation, then it’s time to move forward.

Probably for another thread, but my 5dmk2 is probably 10 years old now. It's done incredibly well. It's taken a lot of abuse (it's missing a few chunks off the bottom, has been in a lot of rain, has never been cared for), so I'm worried it'll die when I need it most. It's also big and heavy, which is annoying when hiking. The quality isn't that great compared to modern gear either. It just seems like time for a change. I'll never get rid of it though. It's part of the family now!

[Tony1963]

Yeah, alright, I’ll let you off

[tangerine_sedge]

Matt.. said:

Tony1963 said:

Do you ‘need’ a new camera? I love my 5D3, and although the 4 is better, would I make better photos with it? Or would I be better off buying a used 1DX?
Nope. Learn to use my eyes more and more. That’s the key. Then when my camera really is the limitation, then it’s time to move forward.

Probably for another thread, but my 5dmk2 is probably 10 years old now. It's done incredibly well. It's taken a lot of abuse (it's missing a few chunks off the bottom, has been in a lot of rain, has never been cared for), so I'm worried it'll die when I need it most. It's also big and heavy, which is annoying when hiking. The quality isn't that great compared to modern gear either. It just seems like time for a change. I'll never get rid of it though. It's part of the family now!

5d3? 5d4? Pah! Luxury, I'm still using a 5d1. I can afford a new R5 with loads of RF glass, but I can't justify the price of a decent 2nd hand car for one of my hobbies.

I was hoping for a 5d5, so that I could buy a cheap new 5d4

With reduced customers and high development costs I can see that the camera industry is in a slow death spiral...

[Matt..]

tangerine_sedge said:

5d3? 5d4? Pah! Luxury, I'm still using a 5d1. I can afford a new R5 with loads of RF glass, but I can't justify the price of a decent 2nd hand car for one of my hobbies.

I was hoping for a 5d5, so that I could buy a cheap new 5d4

With reduced customers and high development costs I can see that the camera industry is in a slow death spiral...

There is always going to be a group of people that can't use camera phones though. That's who they should target. Right now they seem to be pricing people out and that's likely to lose them customers forever.

Of course the market will change when Instagram isn't popular! Maybe cameras will be cheaper then!

[Tony1963]

Matt.. said:

There is always going to be a group of people that can't use camera phones though. That's who they should target. Right now they seem to be pricing people out and that's likely to lose them customers forever.

Of course the market will change when Instagram isn't popular! Maybe cameras will be cheaper then!

You’ve lost me. That reads as though Canon and Nikon should be pricing their mirrorless cameras for camera phone users.

Edited by Tony1963 on Monday 17th August 20:12

[Simpo Two]

tangerine_sedge said:

With reduced customers and high development costs I can see that the camera industry is in a slow death spiral...

Seems to me we have two evolutionary paths here, the camera and the smartphone. The 1.0L sports hatch with 150bhp, and the Bentley V12 that beats it in every respect but is expensive and out of fashion. The paths won't converge but they're closing.

If the camera gubbins in the latest smartphone is, say, 75% as good as a good DSLR, then perhaps the DSLR manufacturers should consider taking that and scaling it up into a proper-sized camera with infinitely more room for batteries and electronics.