Course recommendations
Discussion
My sister is thinking of doing the following course, she's a beginner and would eventually like to start her own small photography business. The course she is thinking of doing is run by the British Academy of Photography and leads to a higher national diploma. Does anyone have any experience of the course provider or can recommend anyone else?
She will obviously need a DSLR camera, she was thinking second hand as budget is tight, again she would appreciate any recommendations.
She will obviously need a DSLR camera, she was thinking second hand as budget is tight, again she would appreciate any recommendations.
TheRainMaker said:
I wouldn't bother with any sort of course tbh, it's all free and on youtube.
Bad advice. Why should people go to university? They should just put the course lectures on YourTube? It will be really easy.
Three are lots of beginner courses about, so find something local. I have been on three. One beginners course, one light painting and one ZSL run course which was excellent. I shall be doing a car photography course before the year is out.
MeetUp is a good place to start. Costs will be cheaper than the dedicated courses which are usually £100 ish but the structure might not be as good.
Why a course over YouTube?
- Real life interaction with other photographers and the course leader
- Course leader will be able to give you one to one on your camera. This really really helped me a lot.
- Venue. Sometimes you can choose a course that photgraphs what you are interested in.
- Possibly a chance to try other kit.
However, starting a photography business is a whole other ball game and a single course will be a good starting point but that is it. OP's sister will need a lot of real world practice and its a very difficult marketplace these days. Be prepared to work for free for a few things, My BIL has been a Pro for about 7 years and he recons this year will be his last as he just needs a more reliable income with the arrival of child number one.
bakerstreet said:
Bad advice.
It's not really though is it if you can't pick up the basics from following a few youtube videos you don't have much hope.I agree on the business side of things though, and really is the most important part of it all.
Edited it as the response was maybe a bit harsh.
For me, youtube was more than enough to get a very good understanding of the basics of photography.
Edited by TheRainMaker on Wednesday 19th June 17:18
Is it a course at a college, or home study? I did a HND in photography and am glad I did, but that was as a full-time student going to college every day where you had sixty other students to muck about discuss projects and photography with. Home learning (of any subject) requires a lot of dedication to get the best out of it.
TheRainMaker said:
I wouldn't bother with any sort of course tbh, it's all free and on youtube.
Completely agree. Apart from the Youtube bit. Teach yourself, you'll learn 4 times as much in a quarter of the time.I used to teach music at University, and I told all my students to stop learning, and start playing.
Does she know what she wants to do? Studio portraits, weddings? Landscapes and sports will get you pocket money and free entry into venues, but you'll do well to pay a mortgage.
Look at some of GetCarter's pictures. I think he does it mainly as a hobby, but that is the standard of picture you need to achieve and then have the ability to sell them.
Weddings are about people management and post processing as much as being a good photographer. Probably the most likely option to make a liveable income without a huge bundle of luck.
Like many of the crafts, there are a lot of talented people happy to work for pocket money.
Do a course and give it a go, but she needs to go into the business side of it with her eyes open.
Look at some of GetCarter's pictures. I think he does it mainly as a hobby, but that is the standard of picture you need to achieve and then have the ability to sell them.
Weddings are about people management and post processing as much as being a good photographer. Probably the most likely option to make a liveable income without a huge bundle of luck.
Like many of the crafts, there are a lot of talented people happy to work for pocket money.
Do a course and give it a go, but she needs to go into the business side of it with her eyes open.
To add I know 3 pro photographers.
1 ex newspaper, made redundant, now does weddings and the odd event, in exchange for front row tickets
1 who makes his money now from taking photos of shops for Google and a bit from photo walks.
1 wedding photographer. Very good people person. He does OK.
I have a couple of friends who do it as a paid hobby. 1 makes enough to buy camera equipment, the other tells his wife he makes enough to pay for his camera equipment...
1 ex newspaper, made redundant, now does weddings and the odd event, in exchange for front row tickets
1 who makes his money now from taking photos of shops for Google and a bit from photo walks.
1 wedding photographer. Very good people person. He does OK.
I have a couple of friends who do it as a paid hobby. 1 makes enough to buy camera equipment, the other tells his wife he makes enough to pay for his camera equipment...
If your sister is serious about her ambitions then I'd go against most of the comments here and suggest she does the course for a couple of important reasons.
Firstly, whilst there is no substitute for getting out there and shooting, professionally, you do need confidence in what you do in order to sell your services with the conviction that's needed. Even if no new skills are learned, emerging from the end of the course knowing that she does the right things in the right way is hugely powerful.
Secondly, it builds what could be a very useful network of peers; people she could sub work to if she gets too busy and vice-versa. I'm still benefiting from such a network from a post-grad Marketing diploma course I did in the mid 90s.
Firstly, whilst there is no substitute for getting out there and shooting, professionally, you do need confidence in what you do in order to sell your services with the conviction that's needed. Even if no new skills are learned, emerging from the end of the course knowing that she does the right things in the right way is hugely powerful.
Secondly, it builds what could be a very useful network of peers; people she could sub work to if she gets too busy and vice-versa. I'm still benefiting from such a network from a post-grad Marketing diploma course I did in the mid 90s.
I would recommend that she:
- thinks about what sort of photography would be a good business for her (events? Property? Portaits? Weddings?). Emphasis on the business bit.
- seeks out a local camera club to meet other people whose hobbies and businesses may span all of the above. Try some of their kit to see which she prefers. Some may even be upgrading and can pass on their old kit.
- seeks out a local beginners course (maybe even through the camera club). I know of quite a few wedding photographers etc who diversify their income during quiet periods by running beginners courses for a couple of hundred pounds.
- use YouTube, online and book guides liberally.
I'm working alongside an associate who has decided to go professional. She benefitted greatly from a training course on lighting, is doing another one next week on editing and some other skills, then an advanced editing course in September.
In addition she has done a three day "running a business" course through local funding.
Youtube and specialist groups on FB are also very useful so its not either or, its both formal and informal development if she is serious.
Its about 80% business (marketing and training, both formal and informal on youtube) and 20% actually with the camera.
In addition she has done a three day "running a business" course through local funding.
Youtube and specialist groups on FB are also very useful so its not either or, its both formal and informal development if she is serious.
Its about 80% business (marketing and training, both formal and informal on youtube) and 20% actually with the camera.
GetCarter said:
I used to teach music at University, and I told all my students to stop learning, and start playing.
That's the best advice I've received, and I got it on a number of creative courses. I went on a photography course and found it not a lot of help. I went on another one at a local photography shop, and was told in answer to most questions; try it. A uni/college course is handy I'm told, for more advanced or specific specialist photography, but the basics and handling are best learned by trying it yourself, following the basic advice from YouTube.
There are some very good Youtube channels which teach it. Also, practical photography are running a ‘free’ 6 month course at the moment
https://www.practicalphotography.com/camera-school...
All you need to do is buy the magazine and the ‘module details’ are in there.
I know some professional photographers whose knowledge of photography is “I use a Nikon on Auto”. Somehow they make a living, photos are usually quite poor even to my eye but the customers are happy and recommend them
https://www.practicalphotography.com/camera-school...
All you need to do is buy the magazine and the ‘module details’ are in there.
I know some professional photographers whose knowledge of photography is “I use a Nikon on Auto”. Somehow they make a living, photos are usually quite poor even to my eye but the customers are happy and recommend them
It really depends on how you learn.
I've had a lot of people on my beginners workshops who've tried learning the basics (exposure triangle , metering etc) and failed because its dry and hard to integrate. We've structured that workshop very hands on and interactive and we force them to think about things and put it into practice.
Our other workshops are actually easier and we've had experienced people along who have lightbulb moments when we teach some things.
You might learn from youtube but they cant explain how to deal with what conditions are in front of you and how to make decisions on something dynamic.
I learn fine on my own and online but I'm sure had I access to an experienced teacher early on it would have shortcutted a few years of doing things wrong.
I've had a lot of people on my beginners workshops who've tried learning the basics (exposure triangle , metering etc) and failed because its dry and hard to integrate. We've structured that workshop very hands on and interactive and we force them to think about things and put it into practice.
Our other workshops are actually easier and we've had experienced people along who have lightbulb moments when we teach some things.
You might learn from youtube but they cant explain how to deal with what conditions are in front of you and how to make decisions on something dynamic.
I learn fine on my own and online but I'm sure had I access to an experienced teacher early on it would have shortcutted a few years of doing things wrong.
I have signed up for the "Starting Photography" evening class course at my local Further Education college.
The course runs from late Sept through to early Dec and comprises of seven classroom and three outdoor sessions.
I was sold as soon as I read the opening line of the course overview; "Are you at home behind the lens with all the gear but no idea?"
In terms of gear, I have an 11-year old Nikon D90 which has seldom been used out of full auto mode.
Based upon earlier comments in this thread it will be interesting to see whether it is just old crumblies like me who have signed up for a traditional classroom-style approach, given the plethora of online resources available.
The course runs from late Sept through to early Dec and comprises of seven classroom and three outdoor sessions.
I was sold as soon as I read the opening line of the course overview; "Are you at home behind the lens with all the gear but no idea?"
In terms of gear, I have an 11-year old Nikon D90 which has seldom been used out of full auto mode.
Based upon earlier comments in this thread it will be interesting to see whether it is just old crumblies like me who have signed up for a traditional classroom-style approach, given the plethora of online resources available.
There's an interesting array of advice in here, some of which has proven itself (to me at least) to be true over the years and some of which I think you can ignore.
- The industry isn't dead. There are probably more staffed jobs available now than there ever has been. Granted, the industry as a whole isn't being particularly kind to freelancers at the moment and agencies don't quite have the reputation they once did, but there is plenty of paid work out there for those who want it.
- As someone mentioned above, there isn't a 'YouTube vs structured learning' argument as such - they're both resources to be used. I would recommend YouTube for learning something when you know roughly what you need to learn. The issue with that, certainly as a beginner, is that you won't know how to layer that learning into actual, gained knowledge because you might not be learning things in order. I've been on both sides of the fence and my personal advice is that you can't really beat structured learning. YouTube is great for following up on what you have learned that day and perhaps expanding on what is by then a base knowledge of the subject.
- I think the idea that structured learning is a shortcut is probably the one I would agree with most. It's such a vast subject and as with anything like that you need to build knowledge up so that it is useful in a variety of different scenarios. To put it into perspective, my "crash course" at the Defence School of Photography was 12 months. That's the same time it takes to train an aircraft technician. That course has proven absolutely invaluable to my career. Had I continued down the self-taught path I still don't think I would have learned what I know now through 10yrs of career-experience.
- The industry isn't dead. There are probably more staffed jobs available now than there ever has been. Granted, the industry as a whole isn't being particularly kind to freelancers at the moment and agencies don't quite have the reputation they once did, but there is plenty of paid work out there for those who want it.
- As someone mentioned above, there isn't a 'YouTube vs structured learning' argument as such - they're both resources to be used. I would recommend YouTube for learning something when you know roughly what you need to learn. The issue with that, certainly as a beginner, is that you won't know how to layer that learning into actual, gained knowledge because you might not be learning things in order. I've been on both sides of the fence and my personal advice is that you can't really beat structured learning. YouTube is great for following up on what you have learned that day and perhaps expanding on what is by then a base knowledge of the subject.
- I think the idea that structured learning is a shortcut is probably the one I would agree with most. It's such a vast subject and as with anything like that you need to build knowledge up so that it is useful in a variety of different scenarios. To put it into perspective, my "crash course" at the Defence School of Photography was 12 months. That's the same time it takes to train an aircraft technician. That course has proven absolutely invaluable to my career. Had I continued down the self-taught path I still don't think I would have learned what I know now through 10yrs of career-experience.
I would say go for the course. I did a course here https://www.thephotographyinstitute.co.uk. I learnt far more from the course than from finding snippets of info off the net here and there, plus you know the course tutors are professionals and their training is what works in the field.
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