Off-camera lighting - advice please
Discussion
Okay, I`ve just entered into the realms of off-camera lighting, and I mean "just" - I have one K and F Concept KF 590 speedlight, which I mount on a lightstand, and some associated cheap diffusers and background.
The diffusers and background I`m quite happy with at this stage (looking to do portraits and pets, etc, at people`s houses, nothing ambitious - just friends and family etc..), but the speedlight, oh dear....
Did my first "proper" shoot with it last week - female work colleague of mine, who, luckily, is a good laugh and happy to model for me, as I duly found out that this thing absolutely EATS batteries, and I mean eats them !
Firstly, I quickly used up the rechargable Duracell double AA 1.2v/2500 nh jobs I had with me within about 20 shots, and then proceeded to use a further two sets of ordinary AA batteries that she had in the house (brand new), just as quickly, so maybe about 60 shots taken, in total, whilst there, and 12 batteries used !! . I was forced to use the flash at full power (1/1) the whole time, but I don`t know whether it was because the flash is just poor, or because the batteries were so crap I wasn`t actually getting full power, and more like 1/8, or 1/4 etc...?
As the batteries got more and more tired, the refresh time kept getting longer with literally around 10-12 secs between shots before the flash would fire again. It really did turn the whole incident into a damp squib for the day, and totally knocked my confidence in using speedlights.
Having already searched online for what could have gone wrong, it seems to be mixed feelings between people suggesting (in other scenarios on there, not mine personally) that the speedlight could be faulty, or that yes, a speedlight DOES eat batteries.
As I said, totally knocked my confidence when I was really getting into the whole off-camera lighting thing, and I`m now thinking that I actually need to invest in something - studio light wise - that I can plug into the wall etc, instead of relying on a speedlight.
Any thoughts, advice or suggestions for me please.....thanks in anticipation.
Edit: One last point of note - each time I replaced the batteries they were really hot when they came out of the flash. Not so hot you couldn`t hold them in your hand, but not far off that at all...
The diffusers and background I`m quite happy with at this stage (looking to do portraits and pets, etc, at people`s houses, nothing ambitious - just friends and family etc..), but the speedlight, oh dear....
Did my first "proper" shoot with it last week - female work colleague of mine, who, luckily, is a good laugh and happy to model for me, as I duly found out that this thing absolutely EATS batteries, and I mean eats them !
Firstly, I quickly used up the rechargable Duracell double AA 1.2v/2500 nh jobs I had with me within about 20 shots, and then proceeded to use a further two sets of ordinary AA batteries that she had in the house (brand new), just as quickly, so maybe about 60 shots taken, in total, whilst there, and 12 batteries used !! . I was forced to use the flash at full power (1/1) the whole time, but I don`t know whether it was because the flash is just poor, or because the batteries were so crap I wasn`t actually getting full power, and more like 1/8, or 1/4 etc...?
As the batteries got more and more tired, the refresh time kept getting longer with literally around 10-12 secs between shots before the flash would fire again. It really did turn the whole incident into a damp squib for the day, and totally knocked my confidence in using speedlights.
Having already searched online for what could have gone wrong, it seems to be mixed feelings between people suggesting (in other scenarios on there, not mine personally) that the speedlight could be faulty, or that yes, a speedlight DOES eat batteries.
As I said, totally knocked my confidence when I was really getting into the whole off-camera lighting thing, and I`m now thinking that I actually need to invest in something - studio light wise - that I can plug into the wall etc, instead of relying on a speedlight.
Any thoughts, advice or suggestions for me please.....thanks in anticipation.
Edit: One last point of note - each time I replaced the batteries they were really hot when they came out of the flash. Not so hot you couldn`t hold them in your hand, but not far off that at all...
Edited by nomad63 on Sunday 25th March 22:05
Cheers Simpo.
IIRC I was on F4, ISO 100, and using the flash in manual (as opposed to ETTL), triggered by the pop-flash on my camera - Canon 7D Mk II.
I probably will end up having to pay proper money for one, which I`m happy to do eventually (as I`m just feeling my way into this at the moment), but I`d be loathe to stump up for a full-monty Canon job if you need 20 packs of batteries with you every time you turn out LOL !
IIRC I was on F4, ISO 100, and using the flash in manual (as opposed to ETTL), triggered by the pop-flash on my camera - Canon 7D Mk II.
I probably will end up having to pay proper money for one, which I`m happy to do eventually (as I`m just feeling my way into this at the moment), but I`d be loathe to stump up for a full-monty Canon job if you need 20 packs of batteries with you every time you turn out LOL !
Its dead easy to rig up a wall wart power supply to a small flash unit. If you enjoy a bit of simple DIY. Go for a stabilised supply if possible so the current rush doesn't kill the flash. Nice recycle times but just remember not to pound it to death as most flashes start to get hot. Generally the manual will tell you how many shots you can use in a time period.
Edited by paul.deitch on Sunday 25th March 22:31
I'd err on the dodgy speedlight.
I recently rattled off 200+ photos in an hour using a Nikon SB900 and an SB600, both powered by 4x Amazon basics 2500 rechargeable batteries. The only issue I had was firing too many off at full blast on the SB900 at one point when the thermal protection kicked in.
I recently rattled off 200+ photos in an hour using a Nikon SB900 and an SB600, both powered by 4x Amazon basics 2500 rechargeable batteries. The only issue I had was firing too many off at full blast on the SB900 at one point when the thermal protection kicked in.
Have you checked manufacturer specs for how many full power flashes you should be getting from a AA battery?
Have you checked the power output on the flash to make sure it wasn’t firing at full power?
I know with my battery powered flashes, they have Li-Ion batteries that will give me 325 full power flashes at 500watts per battery. So I should be able to get 660 flashes at half power... etc... I don’t keep count of shots but it’s good to know roughly how many shots you’ll get before needing to swap out. It doesn’t surprise me that recycle times were slowing as batteries drained. That’s very normal.
I think with a 600EX-RT Speedlite the average flash to failure was about 50 full power shots across 4x AA batteries.
Have you checked the power output on the flash to make sure it wasn’t firing at full power?
I know with my battery powered flashes, they have Li-Ion batteries that will give me 325 full power flashes at 500watts per battery. So I should be able to get 660 flashes at half power... etc... I don’t keep count of shots but it’s good to know roughly how many shots you’ll get before needing to swap out. It doesn’t surprise me that recycle times were slowing as batteries drained. That’s very normal.
I think with a 600EX-RT Speedlite the average flash to failure was about 50 full power shots across 4x AA batteries.
This could well be a dodgy flash. I use a couple yangnuo 568ex plus wirelsss triggers, and they go for ages. I’ve never reached a point yet where the batteries are flat, and that’s over sessions of several hours. I use Amazon basics rechargeable.
If you don’t want to pay for own make (I wouldn’t!) then consider the Yongnuo or perhaps Godex flash units. A variety of price points, some have built in rechargeable batteries and wireless receivers etc.
Be worth it in the long run!
If you don’t want to pay for own make (I wouldn’t!) then consider the Yongnuo or perhaps Godex flash units. A variety of price points, some have built in rechargeable batteries and wireless receivers etc.
Be worth it in the long run!
OP: I've got a spare Yongnuo 660 manual flash which you're welcome to try if you'd like, can pop it in the post.
Also if you're wanting to get into portrait photography, I'd recommend having two speedlights to give you some flexibility on lighting otherwise you may end up with lots of shadows to the side of faces etc.
Also if you're wanting to get into portrait photography, I'd recommend having two speedlights to give you some flexibility on lighting otherwise you may end up with lots of shadows to the side of faces etc.
Just putting the ISO up from 100 to, say, 800 would have made a massive difference to the work the flash had to do.
For portrait photography I'd bin the speedlight/s and get proper studio flashes with softboxes. Even cheap Chinese ones from eBay will give you much more capability than flashguns.
For portrait photography I'd bin the speedlight/s and get proper studio flashes with softboxes. Even cheap Chinese ones from eBay will give you much more capability than flashguns.
Gents, some superb, informative replies on here, that have really helped me out loads.
A special thanks to eltawater for the offer of taking the time/trouble/trust to post a flash to me to try out; outstanding generosity, and thankyou for that mate !
From the comments on here, and the numbers of shots you lads are getting out of a single set of batteries, I`m now convinced it`s a problem with my current flash, as having just checked properly, I was only able to get a total of 83 shots at the shoot I mentioned, and that was with using 12 batteries in total !
As such, I`m going to replace it with a Yongnuo, (YN560 MkIII probably) as this seems to be the "weapon of choice" for users at my level (and well above actually, from what I`ve read), without breaking the bank. As with everything else, if this little venture starts to develop, then I can always invest in more expensive ones later.
Again, particular thanks to Steveatesh, eltawater and C & C for the info you`ve given regarding how many shots you`re getting from just 4 batteries, as that was exactly the info I needed to help me determine if my current speedlight was duff, or not, and it seems it is !
Comments from ALL contributors massively appreciated though, many thanks !
A special thanks to eltawater for the offer of taking the time/trouble/trust to post a flash to me to try out; outstanding generosity, and thankyou for that mate !
From the comments on here, and the numbers of shots you lads are getting out of a single set of batteries, I`m now convinced it`s a problem with my current flash, as having just checked properly, I was only able to get a total of 83 shots at the shoot I mentioned, and that was with using 12 batteries in total !
As such, I`m going to replace it with a Yongnuo, (YN560 MkIII probably) as this seems to be the "weapon of choice" for users at my level (and well above actually, from what I`ve read), without breaking the bank. As with everything else, if this little venture starts to develop, then I can always invest in more expensive ones later.
Again, particular thanks to Steveatesh, eltawater and C & C for the info you`ve given regarding how many shots you`re getting from just 4 batteries, as that was exactly the info I needed to help me determine if my current speedlight was duff, or not, and it seems it is !
Comments from ALL contributors massively appreciated though, many thanks !
Cant add any further help to the OP, but I have a question relating to the OP...
I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
Turn7 said:
Cant add any further help to the OP, but I have a question relating to the OP...
I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
Depends on how off-camera you want to go (in terms of whether wired or wireless is preferable). If you just want to get the flash off camera and don't mind it being wired, something like this 5 metre long off-camera cord might be suitable for £23?I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
nomad63 said:
Gents, some superb, informative replies on here, that have really helped me out loads.
A special thanks to eltawater for the offer of taking the time/trouble/trust to post a flash to me to try out; outstanding generosity, and thankyou for that mate !
From the comments on here, and the numbers of shots you lads are getting out of a single set of batteries, I`m now convinced it`s a problem with my current flash, as having just checked properly, I was only able to get a total of 83 shots at the shoot I mentioned, and that was with using 12 batteries in total !
As such, I`m going to replace it with a Yongnuo, (YN560 MkIII probably) as this seems to be the "weapon of choice" for users at my level (and well above actually, from what I`ve read), without breaking the bank. As with everything else, if this little venture starts to develop, then I can always invest in more expensive ones later.
Again, particular thanks to Steveatesh, eltawater and C & C for the info you`ve given regarding how many shots you`re getting from just 4 batteries, as that was exactly the info I needed to help me determine if my current speedlight was duff, or not, and it seems it is !
Comments from ALL contributors massively appreciated though, many thanks !
Remember that the yn560 is still a manual flash and not TTL. You'd be better off in the long run spending a little bit more now on a ttl flash for that added flexibility. A special thanks to eltawater for the offer of taking the time/trouble/trust to post a flash to me to try out; outstanding generosity, and thankyou for that mate !
From the comments on here, and the numbers of shots you lads are getting out of a single set of batteries, I`m now convinced it`s a problem with my current flash, as having just checked properly, I was only able to get a total of 83 shots at the shoot I mentioned, and that was with using 12 batteries in total !
As such, I`m going to replace it with a Yongnuo, (YN560 MkIII probably) as this seems to be the "weapon of choice" for users at my level (and well above actually, from what I`ve read), without breaking the bank. As with everything else, if this little venture starts to develop, then I can always invest in more expensive ones later.
Again, particular thanks to Steveatesh, eltawater and C & C for the info you`ve given regarding how many shots you`re getting from just 4 batteries, as that was exactly the info I needed to help me determine if my current speedlight was duff, or not, and it seems it is !
Comments from ALL contributors massively appreciated though, many thanks !
Turn7 said:
Cant add any further help to the OP, but I have a question relating to the OP...
I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
The cheapest cordless way of doing it is some radio triggers. I use a D500 and have an SB700 and would like to know the cheapest way to get OFC.....
I get really confused looking at Yongnuo and dont really know which version I need, ditto Godox.....
With my D300, I could use the onboard flash to trigger the SB700 bit obvs I dont have that option with the D500....
tia and sorry to divert the OP a tad...
The yongnuo rf603 triggers are manual only (no TTL pass through) but are cheap and have a pressure sensitive button which doubles up as a shutter hold when shooting in bulb mode.
The yongnup yn622 triggers are TTL triggers BUT are twice the cost and don't have a button which you can hold down properly for bulb long exposures. What they do have is the yn622-TX controller which allows you to set the settings for groups of flashes from the comfort of your camera body, most handy when your flashes are buried behind a softbox screen 6 ft in the air!
The rf603 and yn622 systems are not compatible with each other which is annoying as i have both!
singlecoil said:
I use a lot of flash and have never bothered with ttl. It simply isn’t needed with modern cameras with their ability to show you the results instantly.
Well somebody must otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to develop the functionality and continue to sell it on all the latest guns 
paul.deitch said:
singlecoil said:
I use a lot of flash and have never bothered with ttl. It simply isn’t needed with modern cameras with their ability to show you the results instantly.
Well somebody must otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to develop the functionality and continue to sell it on all the latest guns paul.deitch said:
singlecoil said:
I use a lot of flash and have never bothered with ttl. It simply isn’t needed with modern cameras with their ability to show you the results instantly.
Well somebody must otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to develop the functionality and continue to sell it on all the latest guns (this set up https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/321939958170?chn=ps&d...
For info Turn7
I use the manual settings mainly but I have used TTL for those occasions when you can't get people to stand and pose while you get the setting right. ie parties, events on walkabout. I found it easier to take the first shot or two then adjust flash compensation and leave it on ttl mode but its still not certain every time of getting a good exposure.
Another thing to think about is that you will need some way of getting the exposure right with subjects who are posing, remembering every time the distance between camera and subject changes, so may the settings.
A grey card or a meter are of course the answer BUT the Youngnuo, when working on Nikon cameras, does not work properly with a meter. What happened is that you have the wireless transmitter (YN622N-TX) controlling the manual settings on the receiver and speed light but to make them all work together so you can actually control it manually the Yongnuo speed light must be set to TTL mode.
As soon as you do your test flash, despite being under manual control via the YN622N-TX the speed light sends a test flash out as it is set to ttl before it sends the main flash. Your meter picks this test flash up and gives you incorrect exposure information.
Took me ages to find that out, thought I had a broken meter!
If you're on facebook there is a great group for info on speed lights and modifiers - Speedlight and Strobe Fundamentals, ran by Tim Payne. Its worth a look.
Happy hunting!
You have a flash problem. I average about 200 full power shots and about 400-600 TTL fill shots. .
This can go down if I take a LOT of bursts as the speed lights and batteries will start to overheat.
I really like TTL and HSS.
TTL is useful in all sorts of situations as bounce/fill flash.
HSS is useful outdoors so you can still fill flash even with wide open primes in daylight without using neutral density filters. Doesn't solve all the problems but its surprising how useful a bit of fill flash is.
I have two Yongnuo 568 flashes, both of which work after 4 years with 1000's of shot through them, one I dropped on a radiator and smashed the battery compartment but it still works and a rubber band holds it shut down.
I also have a Nissin Di866 Mk 2 that recycles a little faster and can be used as an optical master flash when on the camera, very useful if I use an on camera ring flash and want it to trigger my back and side light.
This can go down if I take a LOT of bursts as the speed lights and batteries will start to overheat.
I really like TTL and HSS.
TTL is useful in all sorts of situations as bounce/fill flash.
HSS is useful outdoors so you can still fill flash even with wide open primes in daylight without using neutral density filters. Doesn't solve all the problems but its surprising how useful a bit of fill flash is.
I have two Yongnuo 568 flashes, both of which work after 4 years with 1000's of shot through them, one I dropped on a radiator and smashed the battery compartment but it still works and a rubber band holds it shut down.
I also have a Nissin Di866 Mk 2 that recycles a little faster and can be used as an optical master flash when on the camera, very useful if I use an on camera ring flash and want it to trigger my back and side light.
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