Going mirrorless - any downside?
Discussion
I'm hoping to change my camera in the next few weeks, I currently have a Nikon D5100 and want access to HSS, better low light and other features too. In addition I want to go to full frame. I shoot mainly portraits and landscapes and may be some professional work coming my way soon.
I don't have much in the way of investment in Nikon, just a 18-140 lens and a 50 f1.8, and some third party flash and triggers. I will keep the D5100 in any case for going on holiday with.
Anyway, I was looking at the Nikon D850 and the latest 24-70 F2.8E VR lens and 70-200 F2.8E VR lens. The whole pack can be bought from HDEW for £6500, and I thought I was set to go.
Then Sony announced the new A7iii for £1999. With the equivalent two Sony GM series lens the price difference is negligible even if I buy the Sony stuff from Jessops (cheaper if I use Kachashop on ebay, which appears to be e-finity)
I've never used Mirrorless but the reviews of the new A7iii are very interesting, especially the eye focus and in fact the focus system in general (from the A9 apparently). Its difficult to see any downsides to actually using the camera, or the results, from the many reviews I've watched.
So I'm not asking for which system to buy, I will make my own mind up about that, but I would like to know if there are any downsides to changing to the Sony ecosystem, or using Sony cameras/lens, that does not come up in reviews.
For example, are they as robust as a DSLR, Are they as full weather sealed, are accessories harder to buy, etc etc.
At the moment I'm favouring the Sony as the technology does seem better than the Nikon. But that might change of course!
Any thoughts?
I don't have much in the way of investment in Nikon, just a 18-140 lens and a 50 f1.8, and some third party flash and triggers. I will keep the D5100 in any case for going on holiday with.
Anyway, I was looking at the Nikon D850 and the latest 24-70 F2.8E VR lens and 70-200 F2.8E VR lens. The whole pack can be bought from HDEW for £6500, and I thought I was set to go.
Then Sony announced the new A7iii for £1999. With the equivalent two Sony GM series lens the price difference is negligible even if I buy the Sony stuff from Jessops (cheaper if I use Kachashop on ebay, which appears to be e-finity)
I've never used Mirrorless but the reviews of the new A7iii are very interesting, especially the eye focus and in fact the focus system in general (from the A9 apparently). Its difficult to see any downsides to actually using the camera, or the results, from the many reviews I've watched.
So I'm not asking for which system to buy, I will make my own mind up about that, but I would like to know if there are any downsides to changing to the Sony ecosystem, or using Sony cameras/lens, that does not come up in reviews.
For example, are they as robust as a DSLR, Are they as full weather sealed, are accessories harder to buy, etc etc.
At the moment I'm favouring the Sony as the technology does seem better than the Nikon. But that might change of course!
Any thoughts?
I have a Sony mirrorless, and Canon DSLR and several Canon lenses (with a Metabones adapter so I can use the same lenses on each). I like both of them and haven't come across any negatives to the mirrorless system as yet. I like the silent shutter on the Sony but not the menus or the handling. Being able to review images in the viewfinder is very handy especially in bright sunlight.
singlecoil said:
Being able to review images in the viewfinder is very handy especially in bright sunlight.
An effective workaround on a DSLR is to set the controls up to (1) display a histogram to assess exposure, (2) one press 100% crop to assess focus. I use these whenever results are important as you can't judge a photo critically just by looking at the monitor.Either way you go that's a fairly staggering upgrade from a D5100. I was going to mention that some people simply do not get on with an EVF, but moving from an old generation APS-C Nikon viewfinder to the current Sony EVF should feel like a huge upgrade anyhow, particularly as you're planning to shoot landscapes and portraits so nothing to really stress it.
Technically the Sony bodies have weather sealing but it won't be quite as robust as a D850. As long as you're sensible it shouldn't be a problem though, I've had my Sony out in some dreadful conditions and it's been fine with the usual precautions.
Other than that, some hate the Sony menu system, but in my experience it's not that bad and doesn't take long to figure out. You'll also want at least one additional battery with any mirrorless system as they don't last as long.
It's worth noting that the a7iii is likely to be unavailable for some time now as I believe most places have sold out. Unsurprisingly it's been massively popular. I'd consider the a7RII as well, it's still a wonderful camera and with 42MP may be better for landscapes. I use two for weddings, motorsport and travel and don't feel the need to upgrade.
Technically the Sony bodies have weather sealing but it won't be quite as robust as a D850. As long as you're sensible it shouldn't be a problem though, I've had my Sony out in some dreadful conditions and it's been fine with the usual precautions.
Other than that, some hate the Sony menu system, but in my experience it's not that bad and doesn't take long to figure out. You'll also want at least one additional battery with any mirrorless system as they don't last as long.
It's worth noting that the a7iii is likely to be unavailable for some time now as I believe most places have sold out. Unsurprisingly it's been massively popular. I'd consider the a7RII as well, it's still a wonderful camera and with 42MP may be better for landscapes. I use two for weddings, motorsport and travel and don't feel the need to upgrade.
Edited by ukaskew on Sunday 25th March 05:32
My D800 was on its last legs and I moved to an A7Rii - and haven't found any downsides. There are fewer lenses available if that's a problem for you.
The upsides are obvious.... smaller, lighter, quieter - (and the sensor gets the highest score of any camera, inc all DSLRs). I have two mirrorless cameras with lenses attached in a bag 27cm x 20cm x 14cm. (The other being an A6300) Bag pic below.
As for weather resistant - no Sony claims to be 'waterproof' - but it's pretty well designed:
https://petapixel.com/2017/12/07/sony-a7r-iii-weat...
The upsides are obvious.... smaller, lighter, quieter - (and the sensor gets the highest score of any camera, inc all DSLRs). I have two mirrorless cameras with lenses attached in a bag 27cm x 20cm x 14cm. (The other being an A6300) Bag pic below.
As for weather resistant - no Sony claims to be 'waterproof' - but it's pretty well designed:
https://petapixel.com/2017/12/07/sony-a7r-iii-weat...
GetCarter said:
Used it every day for 5+ years (I was almost up to 200k actuations). Like my body, things started to look pretty rough. (Not that I've exposed 200k times - before you suggest it!)
I should check mine for actuations - is the benefit of mirrorless the fewer moving parts mean shutters last longer??? (Say on an Actuations per £ basis?)K12beano said:
I should check mine for actuations - is the benefit of mirrorless the fewer moving parts mean shutters last longer??? (Say on an Actuations per £ basis?)
Camera Model Shutter Life/DurabilityNikon D4 400,000 cycles
Nikon D800 200,000 cycles
Nikon D700 150,000 cycles
Nikon D600 150,000 cycles
When I sold (ffordes) actuations were part of the deal.
Check >>> https://www.camerashuttercount.com
My A7Rii still has a shutter (obs), with a shelf life, but with an expected ability of half a million, as there is no mechanical mirror to f
k up I assume.Edited by GetCarter on Sunday 25th March 16:28
Thanks for the info so far guys, being doing more research, pleased to find youtube help on assigning back button focus and settings for portraits, I presume HDR is fully controllable with numbers of shots etc?
One thing that I have not been able to find much on is what you actually see in the EVF! Most videos show the back screen. I presume you can see the focus points like in a DSLR, plus a whole host more info?
I will have a look at one in Jessops of course when they come in
One thing that I have not been able to find much on is what you actually see in the EVF! Most videos show the back screen. I presume you can see the focus points like in a DSLR, plus a whole host more info?
I will have a look at one in Jessops of course when they come in
steveatesh said:
Thanks for the info so far guys, being doing more research, pleased to find youtube help on assigning back button focus and settings for portraits, I presume HDR is fully controllable with numbers of shots etc?
One thing that I have not been able to find much on is what you actually see in the EVF! Most videos show the back screen. I presume you can see the focus points like in a DSLR, plus a whole host more info?
I will have a look at one in Jessops of course when they come in
What you see is a piss poor image of what the lens sees... the other downside!One thing that I have not been able to find much on is what you actually see in the EVF! Most videos show the back screen. I presume you can see the focus points like in a DSLR, plus a whole host more info?
I will have a look at one in Jessops of course when they come in
steveatesh said:
One thing that I have not been able to find much on is what you actually see in the EVF! Most videos show the back screen. I presume you can see the focus points like in a DSLR, plus a whole host more info?
View through the EVF is essentially a replica of what can be seen on the monitor, including features like focus points, spirit level, histogram, any creative styles applied in-camera, clipped highlights and focus peaking. All can be switched off, at least on the Sony A7 range. Using the EVF at night *can* be a revelation. With a fast lens attached (f/1.4 in the below example) you can see more through the viewfinder than with your own eyes, even somewhere that's Milky Way level darkness. Slower lenses benefit from added light and more patience, though.
TimmyWimmyWoo said:
Battery life on mirrorless is way worse than with a DSLR.
Agreed in general although IME switching off certain features can extend battery life significantly. Shooting at night I do away with AF and stabilisation and find I can get up to two hours continuous use (stacking star trails, for instance). The A7iii has taken the uprated battery from the A9 so you can expect a noticeable increase in battery life with that model, plus the ability to run it from an external USB power bank that the earlier models don't have.Thanks everybody for the extra comments and help, really appreciated.
There appears to be nothing against the switch to mirrorless (for me anyway) and I know the new Sony has a much better battery life (some reviewers are claiming 1800 plus images in a session on one battery, so I presume they’ve turned some stuff off.
The specs on this camera look amazing for the price, and as I don’t have a big investment in Lens for the Nikon I’m swinging behind the Sony (today anyway!) . The eye focus is definitly a big pull for me having watched some of the reviews and result, even with a fast 1.4 lens.
If I do I’ll get the 24-70 F2.8 GM lens and the 70-200 F2.8 GM lens to go with it, there appears to be some good buys on eBay (grey market I know) if they are genuine.
First world problems!
There appears to be nothing against the switch to mirrorless (for me anyway) and I know the new Sony has a much better battery life (some reviewers are claiming 1800 plus images in a session on one battery, so I presume they’ve turned some stuff off.
The specs on this camera look amazing for the price, and as I don’t have a big investment in Lens for the Nikon I’m swinging behind the Sony (today anyway!) . The eye focus is definitly a big pull for me having watched some of the reviews and result, even with a fast 1.4 lens.
If I do I’ll get the 24-70 F2.8 GM lens and the 70-200 F2.8 GM lens to go with it, there appears to be some good buys on eBay (grey market I know) if they are genuine.
First world problems!
Battery life is massively variable for mirrorless as there are simply so many things that can drain it that may be on or off.
I've had over 1600 shots out of a single X-T1 battery (rated life is about 350) but equally I've had about 400 in different situations. They are tiny and third party versions are cheap and generally as good, so a couple of extras are no hardship.
The new Sony battery is by some margin the longest lasting mirrorless battery, so you should be fine anyhow.
I've had over 1600 shots out of a single X-T1 battery (rated life is about 350) but equally I've had about 400 in different situations. They are tiny and third party versions are cheap and generally as good, so a couple of extras are no hardship.
The new Sony battery is by some margin the longest lasting mirrorless battery, so you should be fine anyhow.
I've moved to Fuji X-T2 recently and no regrets, other than battery life as mentioned.
But I would say at the level you're talking about spending, I think you'd be well advised to try to beg, steal, borrow, or hire the Sony before committing. No reason to assume you won't get on with it but that's a lot to spend and find out the hard way. It's worth bearing in mind, that you're not just talking mirrorless vs DSLR but a complete change of manufacturer which can be a bigger culture shock than an EVF.
But I would say at the level you're talking about spending, I think you'd be well advised to try to beg, steal, borrow, or hire the Sony before committing. No reason to assume you won't get on with it but that's a lot to spend and find out the hard way. It's worth bearing in mind, that you're not just talking mirrorless vs DSLR but a complete change of manufacturer which can be a bigger culture shock than an EVF.
The question is, do you really need a D850? Its a seriously expensive bit of kit for what you want to use it for, look at the D750 instead which is more comparable to the A7iii, yes its pushing 4 years old but its still a damned good camera and can still give the Sony a good run for its money and its cheaper too 
It will also do you for any pro work you need, its a HSS camera but you will need the lenses to go with it, just had mine out in St Lucia, got some great pictures, even on the move, its a good all rounder and unless you are going pro or are a totally dedicated enthusiast, a D8xx is serious overkill (plus 36-43mp will show any errors up more than a 24mp camera).
Worth considering
It will also do you for any pro work you need, its a HSS camera but you will need the lenses to go with it, just had mine out in St Lucia, got some great pictures, even on the move, its a good all rounder and unless you are going pro or are a totally dedicated enthusiast, a D8xx is serious overkill (plus 36-43mp will show any errors up more than a 24mp camera).
Worth considering
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff