Car photography
Discussion
I'd be tempted to pay for the digital rights to the images, then get them printed / framed professionally. Paper/print quality can make a real difference to how an image looks when mounted, and getting the frame right is important too - they can vary massively in price!
As for 'how much' for the images, that's a really difficult question. Depends how good/prof'l the 'tog is, whether it was on a paid-for photoshoot (in which case I'd expect a certain # of images FOC, unless it was a cheap rate explicitly stating photos were extra) or just chance photos of your car, etc. etc.
As for 'how much' for the images, that's a really difficult question. Depends how good/prof'l the 'tog is, whether it was on a paid-for photoshoot (in which case I'd expect a certain # of images FOC, unless it was a cheap rate explicitly stating photos were extra) or just chance photos of your car, etc. etc.
havoc said:
I'd be tempted to pay for the digital rights to the images, then get them printed / framed professionally. Paper/print quality can make a real difference to how an image looks when mounted, and getting the frame right is important too - they can vary massively in price!
As for 'how much' for the images, that's a really difficult question. Depends how good/prof'l the 'tog is, whether it was on a paid-for photoshoot (in which case I'd expect a certain # of images FOC, unless it was a cheap rate explicitly stating photos were extra) or just chance photos of your car, etc. etc.
Yeah I am amazed anyone pays for prints.As for 'how much' for the images, that's a really difficult question. Depends how good/prof'l the 'tog is, whether it was on a paid-for photoshoot (in which case I'd expect a certain # of images FOC, unless it was a cheap rate explicitly stating photos were extra) or just chance photos of your car, etc. etc.
It's not 1989!
I mean if someone was to come and shoot your car for you, and make you a framed print like the above, how much would you expect to pay for it, or be willing to pay for it.
I get the fact that it all comes down to quality etc, etc.
That picture Iv posted there costs £175, he’s a pro photographer so I’m guessing the quality will be really good. But for me I think £175 is very heavy coin and a very hard sell to most people.
I’m asking because it’s something I quite fancied doing this year during summer, just for fun and generally just for my Car club mates and people like that, it wouldn’t be a full time job or anything. But after seeing that it’s kinda stopped me dead in my tracks, although I haven't really looked at the outlay costs I really think I’d struggle to get anyone to pay £175 for the above picture.
I get the fact that it all comes down to quality etc, etc.
That picture Iv posted there costs £175, he’s a pro photographer so I’m guessing the quality will be really good. But for me I think £175 is very heavy coin and a very hard sell to most people.
I’m asking because it’s something I quite fancied doing this year during summer, just for fun and generally just for my Car club mates and people like that, it wouldn’t be a full time job or anything. But after seeing that it’s kinda stopped me dead in my tracks, although I haven't really looked at the outlay costs I really think I’d struggle to get anyone to pay £175 for the above picture.
Think about the investment in time by the 'tog, then compare it to other professions:-
- How far away from you / the photo-shoot location does he live?
- How long will he spend on-site?
- How long will the photo-editing take? (Hint: it's not 5 minutes)
- How much will the frame / mount cost? I've paid >£50 for some modestly-sized bespoke frames before, simply because I didn't want cheap black-foil'd chipboard in a pre-cut size.
In addition, how much does GOOD camera kit cost nowadays*, and the photo-editing software licence.
...and then there's all the time/training to get to be as good as he/she is now (where they can charge for their work).
Compare it to a plumber, for example - you wouldn't think twice about paying a plumber a £200 bill - you'd probably think it was cheap. Yet who has the greater investment in time / equipment / training?
...or compare it to an artist - if you'd asked someone to draw / paint your car, you'd expect the charge to be easily into 3 figures, wouldn't you?
* Regardless of what the internet says, you won't get a photo from an iPhone that can be enlarged enough to hang on a wall...yet in the digital age everyone seems to expect photographers to ply their trade for-free / for-peanuts, or worse, that old chestnut that never fails to offend "for exposure".
- How far away from you / the photo-shoot location does he live?
- How long will he spend on-site?
- How long will the photo-editing take? (Hint: it's not 5 minutes)
- How much will the frame / mount cost? I've paid >£50 for some modestly-sized bespoke frames before, simply because I didn't want cheap black-foil'd chipboard in a pre-cut size.
In addition, how much does GOOD camera kit cost nowadays*, and the photo-editing software licence.
...and then there's all the time/training to get to be as good as he/she is now (where they can charge for their work).
Compare it to a plumber, for example - you wouldn't think twice about paying a plumber a £200 bill - you'd probably think it was cheap. Yet who has the greater investment in time / equipment / training?
...or compare it to an artist - if you'd asked someone to draw / paint your car, you'd expect the charge to be easily into 3 figures, wouldn't you?
* Regardless of what the internet says, you won't get a photo from an iPhone that can be enlarged enough to hang on a wall...yet in the digital age everyone seems to expect photographers to ply their trade for-free / for-peanuts, or worse, that old chestnut that never fails to offend "for exposure".
Chill out man, I don’t mean to offend anyone.
As for your comparisons it depends what the plumber does for his 200 quid, if he changes a washer in the tap then it’s expensive, if he fits a shower then it’s not.
I get everything your saying but a lot of pictures are taken at the one time at a show or something so maybe 10 cars could be covered in one trip.
How much does it cost to have a good quality photo printed out in A3 size?
Iv also seen frames at £50/60 for a good quality frame. I currently have another thread going on that.
I’m only trying to gain a little perspective on whether or not it would be worthwhile doing for my club.
As for your comparisons it depends what the plumber does for his 200 quid, if he changes a washer in the tap then it’s expensive, if he fits a shower then it’s not.
I get everything your saying but a lot of pictures are taken at the one time at a show or something so maybe 10 cars could be covered in one trip.
How much does it cost to have a good quality photo printed out in A3 size?
Iv also seen frames at £50/60 for a good quality frame. I currently have another thread going on that.
I’m only trying to gain a little perspective on whether or not it would be worthwhile doing for my club.
£175 for just the print and frame or £175 for the photographers shooting and editing time + the print?
I would expect £175 for just those prints and the frame.
I have a very large on-track print courtesy of track-side photography. I paid them £10 for the digital image and took it to a printer who charged me £28. Frames were extortionate depending what to go for, for the size I printed I was looking at £60-£80 for something you'd be happy to put on the wall. Well, I cheaped out and got a crap one from Hobbycraft for a tenner but besides the point.
Also, £175 is quite good when you consider that frame contains multiple shots.
I would expect the total to come to £250 including the photographer's time of 1 hour shooting and 1-2 hours editing. It depends on the photographer, but actually it's getting quality prints + frames where the pennies add up.
The full Adobe suite costs £50 a month subscription, or I think £30 for Lightroom + Photoshop. Pays for itself quite quickly.
I would expect £175 for just those prints and the frame.
I have a very large on-track print courtesy of track-side photography. I paid them £10 for the digital image and took it to a printer who charged me £28. Frames were extortionate depending what to go for, for the size I printed I was looking at £60-£80 for something you'd be happy to put on the wall. Well, I cheaped out and got a crap one from Hobbycraft for a tenner but besides the point.
Also, £175 is quite good when you consider that frame contains multiple shots.
I would expect the total to come to £250 including the photographer's time of 1 hour shooting and 1-2 hours editing. It depends on the photographer, but actually it's getting quality prints + frames where the pennies add up.
The full Adobe suite costs £50 a month subscription, or I think £30 for Lightroom + Photoshop. Pays for itself quite quickly.
SimboRS said:
I mean if someone was to come and shoot your car for you, and make you a framed print like the above, how much would you expect to pay for it, or be willing to pay for it.
I get the fact that it all comes down to quality etc, etc.
That picture Iv posted there costs £175, he’s a pro photographer so I’m guessing the quality will be really good. But for me I think £175 is very heavy coin and a very hard sell to most people.
I’m asking because it’s something I quite fancied doing this year during summer, just for fun and generally just for my Car club mates and people like that, it wouldn’t be a full time job or anything. But after seeing that it’s kinda stopped me dead in my tracks, although I haven't really looked at the outlay costs I really think I’d struggle to get anyone to pay £175 for the above picture.
If that's a commissioned shoot for one car, I'd say £175 is a bargain.I get the fact that it all comes down to quality etc, etc.
That picture Iv posted there costs £175, he’s a pro photographer so I’m guessing the quality will be really good. But for me I think £175 is very heavy coin and a very hard sell to most people.
I’m asking because it’s something I quite fancied doing this year during summer, just for fun and generally just for my Car club mates and people like that, it wouldn’t be a full time job or anything. But after seeing that it’s kinda stopped me dead in my tracks, although I haven't really looked at the outlay costs I really think I’d struggle to get anyone to pay £175 for the above picture.
SimboRS said:
I’m only trying to gain a little perspective on whether or not it would be worthwhile doing for my club.
Ah...in which case it will probably work out quite a bit more cost-effective - you could look to engage someone on a set fee for the trip / photo-shoot (which is split between all those turning up), and then a per-photo basis after that (digital rights / licence is probably the simplest method)...which then becomes a fixed fee if an owner wants ALL photos the 'tog took at the event of their specific car.(This is the method our car club have used when engaging 'togs for our annual 3-day tour - divided among 10 / 20 / 40 cars it becomes good business for the 'tog and affordable for the owners...but take guidance from the chap as to what maximum # of cars so he can get some good shots of each without having so-few to show that the owners feel short-changed...)
I think the real (and important) question here is not how it ought to cost, bearing in mind the photographer's skills, time and expenses, but how much would a person who owned a car he was fond of be willing to pay.
In other words it's a marketing problem and it's difficult for those of us who are involved in photography to answer, because we are all too well aware of what's involved in producing such work.
Guessing, I would be surprised (pleasantly) if car owners would go into three figures unless having the car photographed was their idea. If it's offered within a club scenario then I wouldn't expect many takers at £175.
In other words it's a marketing problem and it's difficult for those of us who are involved in photography to answer, because we are all too well aware of what's involved in producing such work.
Guessing, I would be surprised (pleasantly) if car owners would go into three figures unless having the car photographed was their idea. If it's offered within a club scenario then I wouldn't expect many takers at £175.
havoc said:
Ah...in which case it will probably work out quite a bit more cost-effective - you could look to engage someone on a set fee for the trip / photo-shoot (which is split between all those turning up), and then a per-photo basis after that (digital rights / licence is probably the simplest method)...which then becomes a fixed fee if an owner wants ALL photos the 'tog took at the event of their specific car.
(This is the method our car club have used when engaging 'togs for our annual 3-day tour - divided among 10 / 20 / 40 cars it becomes good business for the 'tog and affordable for the owners...but take guidance from the chap as to what maximum # of cars so he can get some good shots of each without having so-few to show that the owners feel short-changed...)
It was me who was going to take the photos, while I don’t proclaim to be a good photographer or anything it was going to be more of a fun day type thing, having a laugh, going for a run take some “proper” photos and make them up a picture like the one above, making money wasn’t really my main aim. I would however need it to cover my own personal cost of getting them printed and framed etc. And if they are for sale at £175 I think I’d struggle to sell any tbh. don’t know what % the photographer in my original post is making of his framed £175 picture. This is kinda what I’m trying to work out, what is the basic outlay cost and what people,in general would feel comfortable paying.(This is the method our car club have used when engaging 'togs for our annual 3-day tour - divided among 10 / 20 / 40 cars it becomes good business for the 'tog and affordable for the owners...but take guidance from the chap as to what maximum # of cars so he can get some good shots of each without having so-few to show that the owners feel short-changed...)
singlecoil said:
I think the real (and important) question here is not how it ought to cost, bearing in mind the photographer's skills, time and expenses, but how much would a person who owned a car he was fond of be willing to pay.
In other words it's a marketing problem and it's difficult for those of us who are involved in photography to answer, because we are all too well aware of what's involved in producing such work.
Guessing, I would be surprised (pleasantly) if car owners would go into three figures unless having the car photographed was their idea. If it's offered within a club scenario then I wouldn't expect many takers at £175.
I’m not disrespecting anyone skills, I’m well aware of the work hat would go into it, however the end result still comes down to how many people would pay that kind of money for the above photo, I really don’t know the answer but I do know that I have a car I love and I probably wouldn’t pay that kind of money for a framed print to hang in the garageIn other words it's a marketing problem and it's difficult for those of us who are involved in photography to answer, because we are all too well aware of what's involved in producing such work.
Guessing, I would be surprised (pleasantly) if car owners would go into three figures unless having the car photographed was their idea. If it's offered within a club scenario then I wouldn't expect many takers at £175.
My prints start at £300 (30") and thats separate to the actual cost of doing a shoot. I don't give out high res digital copies except without at least 1 print ordered. I still think thats actually pretty cheap. I don't use cheap suppliers myself - prints are printed from the highest quality printers and framed as metal aluminium sheet prints ready to hang so my profit margins are still low.
One thing to point out is the cost of the lab/print is irrelevant. Nobody goes to a restaurant and judges the price based on the supermarket cost of raw ingredients on your plate, i.e. its not the cost of the ink or the paper, its the value of the image that you price, the value of your time and your creativity/skillset. Thats why a painting can cost £50 and others £500,000.
It's all about how much you value your own work. If you think you're work isnt that great and is 'cheap' then by all means sell it cheap.
If you've invested years to develop your skillset, practising, learning, spending 000's on equipment, a day on a shoot, travelling, hours in planning the shoot and coming up with creative ideas, then spending further hours in post production (I spend up well over 10hrs on a single image on some occasions) then factoring all this in to the equation, that value of your work should be much higher. If you're a professional you also need to make a profit, so all the above is just your operating cost, you then need a margin on top to make a successful business. Hope that helps.
One thing to point out is the cost of the lab/print is irrelevant. Nobody goes to a restaurant and judges the price based on the supermarket cost of raw ingredients on your plate, i.e. its not the cost of the ink or the paper, its the value of the image that you price, the value of your time and your creativity/skillset. Thats why a painting can cost £50 and others £500,000.
It's all about how much you value your own work. If you think you're work isnt that great and is 'cheap' then by all means sell it cheap.
If you've invested years to develop your skillset, practising, learning, spending 000's on equipment, a day on a shoot, travelling, hours in planning the shoot and coming up with creative ideas, then spending further hours in post production (I spend up well over 10hrs on a single image on some occasions) then factoring all this in to the equation, that value of your work should be much higher. If you're a professional you also need to make a profit, so all the above is just your operating cost, you then need a margin on top to make a successful business. Hope that helps.
Edited by kman on Wednesday 7th March 09:54
As others have mentioned photography is a hard business. I used to be a wedding tog and gave up in the end as I decided I didn't need the hassle.
The number of times I heard "my uncle has a nice camera he's taking the photos" that in the end I started replying "has your auntie got a good sewing machine? Is she making your dress?"
Still they didn't understand.
Taking a photo is easy. Taking a good one is hard. Taking good ones repeatedly takes practice, skill and patience. Lets not even go into the time spent editing, the cost of the equipment etc.
Anyway that's not answering the OP is it. I wouldn't pay a lot unless the photographer was a pro, and not just a guy with a nice camera, and he could show me something special.
The number of times I heard "my uncle has a nice camera he's taking the photos" that in the end I started replying "has your auntie got a good sewing machine? Is she making your dress?"
Still they didn't understand.
Taking a photo is easy. Taking a good one is hard. Taking good ones repeatedly takes practice, skill and patience. Lets not even go into the time spent editing, the cost of the equipment etc.
Anyway that's not answering the OP is it. I wouldn't pay a lot unless the photographer was a pro, and not just a guy with a nice camera, and he could show me something special.
keirik said:
Taking a photo is easy. Taking a good one is hard. Taking good ones repeatedly takes practice, skill and patience. Lets not even go into the time spent editing, the cost of the equipment etc.
Anyway that's not answering the OP is it. I wouldn't pay a lot unless the photographer was a pro, and not just a guy with a nice camera, and he could show me something special.
Anyway that's not answering the OP is it. I wouldn't pay a lot unless the photographer was a pro, and not just a guy with a nice camera, and he could show me something special.
I've been an enthusiastic amateur for well over 10 years. I've learned a lot, and can now take DECENT* photos regularly, GOOD photos occasionally, and once in a while something that I'm properly proud of and would hang on my wall.
...and yet on 2 occasions I've paid a proper pro to take photos of my car. I've got some of my own that I like, but the difference between mine and the pro's is still clear to see. It's not (really) in how to use the kit anymore, it's largely in the opportunities they see that I don't, and partly in their post-processing skills to get the 'wow' out of an image.
...I guess what I'm saying OP is that if you've people in your car club who'd really cherish a GOOD image of their car, engage a recommended pro...the additional cost-per-owner won't be THAT great, potentially.
* By pro standards.
havoc said:
I've been an enthusiastic amateur for well over 10 years. I've learned a lot, and can now take DECENT* photos regularly, GOOD photos occasionally, and once in a while something that I'm properly proud of and would hang on my wall.
...and yet on 2 occasions I've paid a proper pro to take photos of my car. I've got some of my own that I like, but the difference between mine and the pro's is still clear to see. It's not (really) in how to use the kit anymore, it's largely in the opportunities they see that I don't, and partly in their post-processing skills to get the 'wow' out of an image.
...I guess what I'm saying OP is that if you've people in your car club who'd really cherish a GOOD image of their car, engage a recommended pro...the additional cost-per-owner won't be THAT great, potentially.
* By pro standards.
Look at what google manage with the pixel 2 line of phones.
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