Slow shutter speed question

[dave0010]

so, possible a basic question for some but confusing for a beginner.

I have in my local park a waterfall, this evening I tried to take a photo with the shutter speed set to around 8 seconds. I ideally was trying to show the motion of the water whilst capturing the nice rocks around the waterfall.

The problem was that because of the extended time the shutter was open the picture just over exposed. I had the aperture set to f5.6 on my nikon kit lens.

So the question is, how do you capture the motion of water in the day time without over exposing the photo?

[davepoth]

Put the ISO down as low as you can to start with, and go another couple of stops on the aperture. I've used a 5.6 aperture for shooting in a nightclub without a flash before.

[Crafty_]

ND filter. Basically a piece of very dark glass you put in front of the lens that restricts the light that enters the camera, thus allowing you to have slow shutter speeds without over exposure.

ETA: f5.6 is quite a wide aperture, you can bring that down to (maybe) f10-f11 without any ill effect, the smaller aperture means less light getting to the camera, thus will afford you a slower shutter but this still wouldn't buy you 8 secs, maybe 2 in half decent light.

Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 23 March 18:56

[Simpo Two]

You're on the right lines but you need to control the other parameters (aperture and ISO) to get the right exposure. You seem to be shooting manual exposure so as one goes up, the other must come down.

Set the ISO to the lowest and the aperture to the smallest, eg f16 or f22. Try again - but you may find this is still over-exposed. Cut the shutter speed to 4 secs or even 2. If still over, you'll need an ND (neutral desntiy) filter to stop more light. IIRC Rob D does a lot of this and will no doubt be along soon.

[flat-planedCrank]

dave0010 said:

so, possible a basic question for some but confusing for a beginner.

I have in my local park a waterfall, this evening I tried to take a photo with the shutter speed set to around 8 seconds. I ideally was trying to show the motion of the water whilst capturing the nice rocks around the waterfall.

The problem was that because of the extended time the shutter was open the picture just over exposed. I had the aperture set to f5.6 on my nikon kit lens.

So the question is, how do you capture the motion of water in the day time without over exposing the photo?

A ND (neutral density) filter Basically a dark bit of glass - think people even tried welding mask glass as a cheap alternative...

Btw, f5.6 is actually quite a wide aperture for a kit (letting lots of light in). The larger the f-number the smaller the aperture, which will help lower the exposure but give you more depth-of-field.

Hope this helps

Edit - i need to learn to type faster...

[Simpo Two]

flat-planedCrank said:

Edit - i need to learn to type faster...

So do I I was first on the scene to start with...

[dave0010]

Thanks for the fast replies, I had the ISO set to 100 as it is the lowest it would go.

I did try moving the aperture to F9 but this did seam to darken the picture too much.

Sounds like the possible answer would be to speed the shutter back up to around 2 seconds, I was just looking to really capture flowing water.

This is the picture below, I have played with it a bit on my computer though. Also please note I am very much a beginner, I only got my DSLR a few days ago

[DibblyDobbler]

2 seconds would have been plenty to get the movement in the water. My 2p worth would be to try it on aperture priority with minimum iso and a small aperture (eg f22) and you'd probably find the shutter was slow enough to give you what you wanted

[flat-planedCrank]

dave0010 said:

Thanks for the fast replies, I had the ISO set to 100 as it is the lowest it would go.

I did try moving the aperture to F9 but this did seam to darken the picture too much.

Sounds like the possible answer would be to speed the shutter back up to around 2 seconds, I was just looking to really capture flowing water.

This is the picture below, I have played with it a bit on my computer though. Also please note I am very much a beginner, I only got my DSLR a few days ago

Not bad at all!

You've actually got quite a wide range of light in that picture - from the tree shadows to the bright sky. The camera won't, in many cases, have the 'dynamic range' to capture the image properly. If the shadows look fine the sky can be overexposed (or 'blown out' so it's 100% white).

There are a few things you can do, but if you like tinkering on the computer then google for HDR. It basucally allows you to take a number of photos at a range if exposures and then combine them into one image. A bit more work but done carefully it can look natural

[Simpo Two]

Part of the problem is that as a newbie you're wallowing about on manual exposure and gettng stuck. Try shutter priority - set that and let the camera do the rest. You may still need an ND filter though.

NB I have to disagree with FPC; save computer tinkering until you have a better idea of the basics. Also try to avoid the HDR heffalump trap for a while

[markmullen]

My blog post on long exposures might help. http://www.markmullenphotography.co.uk/blog/2012/8...

[dave0010]

I will try leaving the camera on shutter priority mode next time.

What main difference will this make over using it in manual mode? I have only been using manual mode to try an learn what the changes in aperture/shutter speed/ISO do to the pictures.

I really enjoy this type of photo so very much looking forward to learning more about it all.

Next time il try a F9 aperture with a 2 second shutter speed on aperture priority mode keeping the iso to around 100.

Hopefully if the weather is clear I could hopefully get another try at it tomorrow afternoon

[dave0010]

Sorry, meant the camera set to shutter speed priority

[DibblyDobbler]

dave0010 said:

Next time il try a F9 aperture with a 2 second shutter speed on aperture priority mode keeping the iso to around 100.

On aperture priority the camera will determine the shutter speed Suggest a much narrower aperture if you do it this way - as above - something like f22.

[flat-planedCrank]

dave0010 said:

What main difference will this make over using it in manual mode? I have only been using manual mode to try an learn what the changes in aperture/shutter speed/ISO do to the pictures.

With shutter priority it'll juggle the aperture value to fit in with your set shutter speed & ISO.

If the resulting image is a bit dark then try raising the Exposure Compensation and try again (& obviously lower the EC if the image is too bright)

[Turn7]

Thats a good first effort, you should be pleased.

[LongQ]

dave0010 said:

Next time il try a F9 aperture with a 2 second shutter speed on aperture priority mode keeping the iso to around 100.

It's a dslr right? Digital not film?

So you can get the camera to teach you what your need to know - which settings work best for specific light conditions.

In this case if your main concern is getting the water to blur - use Shutter Priority and try all the viable speeds that the camera's metering system will allow. And those that it won't if you have a mind to.

You could then do something similar with Aperture Priority.

That would give you a reference set of images showing you whet effects each combinations of settings offers. The files will contain the settings used so referring to the chosen values is easy.

This is your route to a fast learning curve. Once you have a feel for that you may want to consider the effects of ISO settings but for no just make sure that the ISO value you set is always the same for shots in the project just suggested. Many cameras have an option to use "Auto-ISO" to adjust images that would be incorrectly exposed using the specified Shutter speed and lens aperture. Make sure you avoid that at this stage for the array of sample shots. You can revisit ISO later.

[Mr Will]

dave0010 said:

What main difference will this make over using it in manual mode? I have only been using manual mode to try an learn what the changes in aperture/shutter speed/ISO do to the pictures.

All of them make the image brighter or darker, with an additional side effect; Aperture - more/less depth of field, Shutter speed - more/less motion blur, ISO - more/less noise.

When using manual mode if you add one you'll have to take away another to maintain the correct exposure. The semi-auto modes remove this complexity by allowing you to pick the one or two that you care about and let the camera work out the rest.

[Simpo Two]

Mr Will said:

All of them make the image brighter or darker, with an additional side effect; Aperture - more/less depth of field, Shutter speed - more/less motion blur, ISO - more/less noise.

This shows well that ISO is the poor relation in the triangle. No-one would want 'more noise'; rather, use ISO to help you get the correct exposure when the other two parameters are exhausted. By this I mean, for example, that you need f1.0 to get the correct exposure but your lens doesn't go that wide, or 1/5th sec but the subject would be blurred. So ISO 'helps' the other two.

[Mr Will]

Simpo Two said:

Mr Will said:

All of them make the image brighter or darker, with an additional side effect; Aperture - more/less depth of field, Shutter speed - more/less motion blur, ISO - more/less noise.

This shows well that ISO is the poor relation in the triangle. No-one would want 'more noise'; rather, use ISO to help you get the correct exposure when the other two parameters are exhausted. By this I mean, for example, that you need f1.0 to get the correct exposure but your lens doesn't go that wide, or 1/5th sec but the subject would be blurred. So ISO 'helps' the other two.

It depends. If I'm shooting a group and I'm at f4, 1/125th, ISO 100 and need a couple more stops of exposure I'd rather raise the ISO to 400 than drop either of the other two. More noise isn't necessarily a problem as long as the level stays acceptably low.