Cleaning old 6x6 uncut Slide film
Discussion
I've just discovered a roll (not quite 'round' now) of 120 format colour slide film taken in the mid to late 60s.
In general from a quick glance it looks to be in prtty good conditions and the colours seem quite sound. One of two frames may have some slight patches of miscolouring (reason unknown as yet) but otherwise a quick visual check suggests its not too bad at all.
It does, however, have some surface dirt marks - sort of like dried fluids in the main - and with it being neither flat nor round rolled and not as supple as it once was I'm wondering about the best way clean and attempt to flatten it (or re-roll it away from its current oval rolled shape) in preparations for scanning. (Always assuming that it looks worth bothering with when I get a loupe on it on decent light!)
Anyone got any full proof suggestions?
In general from a quick glance it looks to be in prtty good conditions and the colours seem quite sound. One of two frames may have some slight patches of miscolouring (reason unknown as yet) but otherwise a quick visual check suggests its not too bad at all.
It does, however, have some surface dirt marks - sort of like dried fluids in the main - and with it being neither flat nor round rolled and not as supple as it once was I'm wondering about the best way clean and attempt to flatten it (or re-roll it away from its current oval rolled shape) in preparations for scanning. (Always assuming that it looks worth bothering with when I get a loupe on it on decent light!)
Anyone got any full proof suggestions?
I would suggest soaking it in luke warm water for an hour, then
gently spray it with luke warm water from the shower hose. Two persons,
one holding the film straight, other spraying.
You can buy stuff from good photography shops, that stops water marks (it has a name, but it's been years and I can't remember) while it's drying. Let it dry naturally, if you can hang it
on the shower curtain rail, and maybe attach a weight to the bottom
it should straighten out a bit.
Don't worry about the curved shape, because it will flatten
when you scan it.
HTH
ps, any kind of film is VERY fragile when wet, and DON'T wipe
it, because you'll scratch it.
HTH aswell.
Edit to add stuff.
gently spray it with luke warm water from the shower hose. Two persons,
one holding the film straight, other spraying.
You can buy stuff from good photography shops, that stops water marks (it has a name, but it's been years and I can't remember) while it's drying. Let it dry naturally, if you can hang it
on the shower curtain rail, and maybe attach a weight to the bottom
it should straighten out a bit.
Don't worry about the curved shape, because it will flatten
when you scan it.
HTH
ps, any kind of film is VERY fragile when wet, and DON'T wipe
it, because you'll scratch it.
HTH aswell.
Edit to add stuff.
Edited by johnnywgk on Wednesday 18th April 23:46
johnny, thanks for the reply.
I was at the last two words of a response last night when the notebook went into a funny state and eventually decided to discard what I had written. I'll try again.
One of the reasons for posting s that internet searches have offered up conflicting answers to similar questions.
Interestingly the use of water and some form of dilute wetting agent seems to highly recommended and highly discouraged in equal measure. Once the discussions move in to special cleaning fluids the few brand names offered (bear in mind some of the posts are from a while back) also seem to attract support and non-support in about equal measure.
All rather perplexing.
If I had a batch of films with known content value it might be worth investing in a sample of fluids and trying various options. But it's just the one film (at the moment) and I'm not yet sure how much potential is in the shots.
Now I can check that to some extent with a loupe and more accurately with a scan - except that the film has been rolled up and partly flattened in a small box (as it was returned from the processor) for over 40 years. In effect the film roll and each image section has taken on something like a sine wave shape. Whilst the film does not seem to be brittle it's certainly not very flexible. I'm pretty sure my flatbed photo scanner will not deal with it well as it is - though it may be OK to assess a few frames to decide whether there is any point to do anything with the images.
The thing is I don't keep the scanner set up permanently and the PC I originally used with it (and on which all the working software was installed) died a couple of weeks ago. So there's probably no chance of a 'quick and simply' test.
I'd like to minimise handling of the film prior to cleaning and 'flattening' but then, for one film of suspect content quality, obtaining the right chemicals or washing facilites to provide some degree of certainty about archival chances post cleaning might be an unjustifiable effort and expense.
Oh well, time to dig out the cotton gloves and the loupe I guess, take a gamble on handling and try to see what detail is there.
I was at the last two words of a response last night when the notebook went into a funny state and eventually decided to discard what I had written. I'll try again.
One of the reasons for posting s that internet searches have offered up conflicting answers to similar questions.
Interestingly the use of water and some form of dilute wetting agent seems to highly recommended and highly discouraged in equal measure. Once the discussions move in to special cleaning fluids the few brand names offered (bear in mind some of the posts are from a while back) also seem to attract support and non-support in about equal measure.
All rather perplexing.
If I had a batch of films with known content value it might be worth investing in a sample of fluids and trying various options. But it's just the one film (at the moment) and I'm not yet sure how much potential is in the shots.
Now I can check that to some extent with a loupe and more accurately with a scan - except that the film has been rolled up and partly flattened in a small box (as it was returned from the processor) for over 40 years. In effect the film roll and each image section has taken on something like a sine wave shape. Whilst the film does not seem to be brittle it's certainly not very flexible. I'm pretty sure my flatbed photo scanner will not deal with it well as it is - though it may be OK to assess a few frames to decide whether there is any point to do anything with the images.
The thing is I don't keep the scanner set up permanently and the PC I originally used with it (and on which all the working software was installed) died a couple of weeks ago. So there's probably no chance of a 'quick and simply' test.
I'd like to minimise handling of the film prior to cleaning and 'flattening' but then, for one film of suspect content quality, obtaining the right chemicals or washing facilites to provide some degree of certainty about archival chances post cleaning might be an unjustifiable effort and expense.
Oh well, time to dig out the cotton gloves and the loupe I guess, take a gamble on handling and try to see what detail is there.
Get it scanned first! Then if all else fails, you got a digital copy to work on/with.
Maybe post the images on here to see if any of us can help.
That's if you can handle the banter, you'll get a laugh, what ever
happens, You'll also get some good efforts from here ( I would have thought).
Good luck.
Maybe post the images on here to see if any of us can help.
That's if you can handle the banter, you'll get a laugh, what ever
happens, You'll also get some good efforts from here ( I would have thought).
Good luck.
johnnywgk said:
Get it scanned first! Then if all else fails, you got a digital copy to work on/with.
Maybe post the images on here to see if any of us can help.
That's if you can handle the banter, you'll get a laugh, what ever
happens, You'll also get some good efforts from here ( I would have thought).
Good luck.
You're right!Maybe post the images on here to see if any of us can help.
That's if you can handle the banter, you'll get a laugh, what ever
happens, You'll also get some good efforts from here ( I would have thought).
Good luck.
I dug out my cotton gloves today and finally found the loupe.
A very rough assessment of the film using the loupe and some window light suggests that some images are reasonably sharp (considering the circumstances) but there may be some degredation of the film media as well and surface dirt and the unflatness issues. It all looks OKish to the eye, but under the loupe one may get a differen interpretation.
I may well go for the scan first approach but suspect that film's lack of malleability, so far, may be a larger hurdle to be negotiated in that process.
Edited by LongQ on Thursday 19th April 22:55
I certainly wouldn't soak it for an hour - the emulsion is likely to float off with its age. Which side is the grott on? If it;s on the emulsion side (the flat side) a short soaking dilute wetting agent, a careful squeegee then drying in a dust free environment might improve it - but you risk doing more damage. Ff the non emulsion side (shiny) then wiping carefully with diluted meths might help.
francisn said:
I certainly wouldn't soak it for an hour - the emulsion is likely to float off with its age. Which side is the grott on? If it;s on the emulsion side (the flat side) a short soaking dilute wetting agent, a careful squeegee then drying in a dust free environment might improve it - but you risk doing more damage. Ff the non emulsion side (shiny) then wiping carefully with diluted meths might help.
The roll has paper strip on the 'inside' to keep the surfaces apart. I assume that this was, as the time, the recommended way to pack the processed strip. It is now very dry of course.The general dirt seems to be on both sides of the film. At first sight it doesn't look too bad but as one continues to look, it's possible that things are a little worse than they initially appear.
I'm thinking that a general 'safety first' gentle wipe of the non emulsion side prior to first scanning may be the way to go. Meths I have. How about Iso-propyl alcohol? Good evaporation but I have no idea about chemical activity on the non emulsion side. Off to Google ......
I would agree with francisn about the hour is too long.
Not sure about squeegy, if one bit of git, the squeegy will drag it the whole lengh (Lol, I can't even spell lengh)
Sounds like francisn knows his stuff, so Meths should be ok.
I would think twice about the Iso-propyl, as I don't know what that is.
You could also try one of those soft brushes with built in rubber
blowy thingy from a camera shop.
Not sure about squeegy, if one bit of git, the squeegy will drag it the whole lengh (Lol, I can't even spell lengh)
Sounds like francisn knows his stuff, so Meths should be ok.
I would think twice about the Iso-propyl, as I don't know what that is.
You could also try one of those soft brushes with built in rubber
blowy thingy from a camera shop.
johnnywgk said:
I would agree with francisn about the hour is too long.
Not sure about squeegy, if one bit of git, the squeegy will drag it the whole lengh (Lol, I can't even spell lengh)
Sounds like francisn knows his stuff, so Meths should be ok.
I would think twice about the Iso-propyl, as I don't know what that is.
You could also try one of those soft brushes with built in rubber
blowy thingy from a camera shop.
Iso-propyl alcohol is a high evaporation fluid often used for cleaning electrical stuff. Recommended back in the old days for cleaning tape heads and, when necessary, analogue record deck cartridge needles. However since I have never seen a recommendation for using it on film ... hmm.Not sure about squeegy, if one bit of git, the squeegy will drag it the whole lengh (Lol, I can't even spell lengh)
Sounds like francisn knows his stuff, so Meths should be ok.
I would think twice about the Iso-propyl, as I don't know what that is.
You could also try one of those soft brushes with built in rubber
blowy thingy from a camera shop.
Have the soft brushes but this is more a surface coating than loose dust. In some ways getting the film to be more supple ready for scanning may be more important than getting it clean at this point.
Many thanks for all the input so far.
When you say supple, are you saying the film is brittle, and if you flatten it in a scanner it will crack.
If so, you you be much better doing it in a warm atmosphere, rather than in a shed, in the shade that's cold.
If you have, say 6ft of film and bad bits, cut the bad bits out and play with them, so if they crack etc, etc you've lost nothing.
If so, you you be much better doing it in a warm atmosphere, rather than in a shed, in the shade that's cold.
If you have, say 6ft of film and bad bits, cut the bad bits out and play with them, so if they crack etc, etc you've lost nothing.
johnnywgk said:
When you say supple, are you saying the film is brittle, and if you flatten it in a scanner it will crack.
If so, you you be much better doing it in a warm atmosphere, rather than in a shed, in the shade that's cold.
If you have, say 6ft of film and bad bits, cut the bad bits out and play with them, so if they crack etc, etc you've lost nothing.
Johnny,If so, you you be much better doing it in a warm atmosphere, rather than in a shed, in the shade that's cold.
If you have, say 6ft of film and bad bits, cut the bad bits out and play with them, so if they crack etc, etc you've lost nothing.
I don't think it's brittle as such, just not nearly as supply as film usually is. Thta would not be a problem except it has been soted rolled up and partly flattened. So its an oval shape rolled up and unrolled each frame takes on a sine wave shape - it's just the way to roll diameter and box size have combined. I don't think the holder on by flatbed will come close to flatteng a 6x6cm film (Currently still on a 12 exposure length) and I have never managed to scan directly off the glass bed without some moire/Newton Rings effects. My flatbed is not wet scan equipped.
Much as I would like to see what can be extracted I have decided I am in no hurry with this so will take a few days (or maybe longer) to gather information and try to assess what seems best for this situation. There are a coupld of inches of unexposed film material (as usual) at each snd of the strip so I can test for brittleness and a couple of other things with those I would imagine. When the time comes.
Very useful suggestions thought, thanks again.
Probably my best suggestion would be type in Google "photography forum" there are a few forums much like Pistonheads (mainly car, with a few into photography)but these will be a lot more knowledgeable.
You may have to sign up, but it'll be worth it.
I used to be on one, but forgot what it's called.
Good luck.
You may have to sign up, but it'll be worth it.
I used to be on one, but forgot what it's called.
Good luck.
johnnywgk said:
Probably my best suggestion would be type in Google "photography forum" there are a few forums much like Pistonheads (mainly car, with a few into photography)but these will be a lot more knowledgeable.
You may have to sign up, but it'll be worth it.
I used to be on one, but forgot what it's called.
Good luck.
That's where I started out. The searches through existing posts and then viewing them usually still work o course, no registration required.You may have to sign up, but it'll be worth it.
I used to be on one, but forgot what it's called.
Good luck.
I easily spotted several interesting threads but in each case the respondents seemed to offer conflicting advice and everyone had their own opinion based on ... well, something I suppose but how would one tell whether the advice was valid?
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