New Canon 7D & lenses

[2slo]

Well, after asking questions and reading reviews over the past couple of weeks, I took the plunge today and bought my first DSLR, a Canon 7D which comes as a kit with the optional 15 - 85mm zoom. I also thought long and hard and got the 70 - 200mm F2.8 IS 11 USM with it. Having just unpacked it this afternoon I can tell you the body seems well put together and everything falls easily to hand. The 15-85mm lens takes good shots (the couple I tried with it)especially so at the wide end.
Then I put the 70-200mm lens on. Wow. I'm not easily impressed but straight out the box I took these:




Now I know they aren't going to win any competitions but considering I had literally just picked the camera up for the 1st time...
So thanks to those who offered some excellent advice on here, I've taken it and gone ahead, now looking forward to learning how to use the new gear and hopefully take some good photos

[14-7]

Glad you like it.

Had mine pretty much since it came out and still enjoy using it.

Best advice is get out there and start shooting !

[markmullen]

The cat looks far from happy at being photographed, maybe you'd just cleaned it with the cif in the background?!

Enjoy your new kit, I look forward to seeing shots from you in the random photos thread.

[2slo]

markmullen said:

The cat looks far from happy at being photographed, maybe you'd just cleaned it with the cif in the background?!

Yep, that's his disgusted look (I hadn't fed him the 1st time he asked and he was letting me know!)

markmullen said:

Enjoy your new kit, I look forward to seeing shots from you in the random photos thread.

Definately, thanks!

[LongQ]

Well done that man. Impressive commitment shown.

Mind you the 70-200 II (in particular) is looking like a pretty good investment lens that should hold it value well for a few years. Likely a better place to invest cash at the moment than a bank or the stock market would be.

Your reaction is the same as mine when some kind chap at Oulton Park lent me his for about 20 minutes to use with a hired 7D. I immediately felt the need to buy one. The feeling was confirmed using a rented one the following weekend. Cash was invested. It's that sort of lens. I'm sure you will enjoy it for a long time to come.

[2slo]

LongQ said:

Well done that man. Impressive commitment shown.

Mind you the 70-200 II (in particular) is looking like a pretty good investment lens that should hold it value well for a few years. Likely a better place to invest cash at the moment than a bank or the stock market would be.

Your reaction is the same as mine when some kind chap at Oulton Park lent me his for about 20 minutes to use with a hired 7D. I immediately felt the need to buy one. The feeling was confirmed using a rented one the following weekend. Cash was invested. It's that sort of lens. I'm sure you will enjoy it for a long time to come.

Thanks. Out of all the Canon lenses the 70-200 11 is the only one I've seen the reviews for which no one seems to have a bad word to say about. I found it heavier than I was expecting the 1st time I picked it up, but looking at what it contains, it isn't really surprising. I like the fact that the zoom is internal on it meaning it doesn't protrude further and tip it's balance. Really quiet in operation too. I'm going to try it on my old Canon mount tripod tomorrow and see what I can achieve. Trouble is I'm spending so much time using the kit I haven't even looked at the manual yet!

[LongQ]

2slo said:

LongQ said:

Well done that man. Impressive commitment shown.

Mind you the 70-200 II (in particular) is looking like a pretty good investment lens that should hold it value well for a few years. Likely a better place to invest cash at the moment than a bank or the stock market would be.

Your reaction is the same as mine when some kind chap at Oulton Park lent me his for about 20 minutes to use with a hired 7D. I immediately felt the need to buy one. The feeling was confirmed using a rented one the following weekend. Cash was invested. It's that sort of lens. I'm sure you will enjoy it for a long time to come.

Thanks. Out of all the Canon lenses the 70-200 11 is the only one I've seen the reviews for which no one seems to have a bad word to say about. I found it heavier than I was expecting the 1st time I picked it up, but looking at what it contains, it isn't really surprising. I like the fact that the zoom is internal on it meaning it doesn't protrude further and tip it's balance. Really quiet in operation too. I'm going to try it on my old Canon mount tripod tomorrow and see what I can achieve. Trouble is I'm spending so much time using the kit I haven't even looked at the manual yet!

I must admit that the I was encouraged by a few people with access to more or less whatever kit they wanted who were utterly enthusiastic about the 70-200 II even compared with the previous model which also elicited positive support.

It is heavy but I have not found it excessively heavy in use - soon got the hang of it even with a 2x extender fitted and using it for extended periods and I'm no fitness fanatic.

I find it very balanced on a 1D3 body. When I hired the 7D it came with a Battery Grip and the balance with the grip seemed very good as it is on the 1D3. I think the extra weight and its re-distribution of the C of G is useful. To be fair I didn't use the 7D much at all without the grip it felt so right with it. The 1D3 does not provide the choice - it is as it is! If you did not get a grip (so to speak!) it's well worth considering IMO.

[RobDickinson]

70-200mkII is by far the best zoom on the market at the moment.

Its not perfect - the 'focus breathing' issue ( its more like 170mm at Mfd) and slighty iff bokeh vs the previous one (which I think is caused by the IS system working hard).

But thats really picking tinny holes in whats a fantastic bit of kit. Enjoy!

[2slo]

LongQ said:

It is heavy but I have not found it excessively heavy in use - soon got the hang of it even with a 2x extender fitted and using it for extended periods

So would I be right in thinking that such an item would make this lens a 400mm zoom? Is it as simple as that? Fitted to a crop body such as the 7D that would then be effectively a 640mm zoom (allowing for the 1.6 crop factor)?
Is there much image degredation or other issues when using an extender? I have no experience with them but it would seem a cost effective way to have different resolution options.

[miniman]

2slo said:

LongQ said:

It is heavy but I have not found it excessively heavy in use - soon got the hang of it even with a 2x extender fitted and using it for extended periods

So would I be right in thinking that such an item would make this lens a 400mm zoom? Is it as simple as that? Fitted to a crop body such as the 7D that would then be effectively a 640mm zoom (allowing for the 1.6 crop factor)?
Is there much image degredation or other issues when using an extender? I have no experience with them but it would seem a cost effective way to have different resolution options.

Main issue with 2x extender is that you lose 2 stops - max f/3.5

Don't think there's much image degradation as it is still L glass.

Cracking lens, I keep meaning to get the extender for mine.

[RobDickinson]

20 tc looses 2 stops of speed, so you will have a 400/5.6 lens.

Also slows the autofocus down 50%.

The mkIII tc with the mkII 70-200 produces quite acceptable results, as good as a 100-400L

[curtisl]

You are pretty much set now! It's an impressive set up for your first one. Add to your list a tripod and a flash and the only things you will want after that is pretty much every lens you see if you are anything like me.

I have a speedlite 430ex on my 7d and a cheap tripod from Asda and they both do exactly what I want from them. The tripod may not be a manfrotto but it's sturdy and it keeps my camera still, that's all I need.

Keep shooting and you'll learn something everytime.

[McMacro]

Excellent choice Mark, great combination! Get a battery grip, it's much easier to handle in my opinion.

Oh, and a PH sticker from the shop

[LongQ]

2slo said:

LongQ said:

It is heavy but I have not found it excessively heavy in use - soon got the hang of it even with a 2x extender fitted and using it for extended periods

So would I be right in thinking that such an item would make this lens a 400mm zoom? Is it as simple as that? Fitted to a crop body such as the 7D that would then be effectively a 640mm zoom (allowing for the 1.6 crop factor)?
Is there much image degredation or other issues when using an extender? I have no experience with them but it would seem a cost effective way to have different resolution options.

I'm going to be cautious here partly because most of my use of both 70-200 II and extender II has been on a 1D3 rather than a 7D so a 1.3 crop factor and a 'mere' 10 Mpix. I would have to dig out the shots I took when trialling the 7D with 70-200 II and extender II and that was a year ago now so I would need to dig deep in my memory for suitable assessments of what was going on when I took them.

The Canon 2x Extended II is an excellent product and reports suggest that the Extender III is even better. I have not tried an Extender III. The price increase over the II was rather alarming and I obtained my Extender II at a competitive price.

Yes it turns a 70-200 into a 140-400 but the max aperture becomes f5.6 - you lose 2 stops with the 2x extender. The 1.4x extender (which I don't have) loses 1 stop.

Optically the combination produces excellent results but I will not deny that the 70-200 alone tends to look more special, particularly when wide open as it is designed to be used. You would expect this. DoF, bokeh and, presumably, optical quality will all be slighty different with more glass in the light path. However as an alternative approach to getting to 400mm would require either a 100-400 lens or a prime of some sort, if not a 400mm then maybe a 300mm plus a 1.4x extender, it seems to me to be cost effective and relatively convenient. If I felt a need 4 2 full use bodies with long lenses I would probably look at a 400mm or 500mm and baulk at the cost!

Depending on what you are shooting and how you are going to view the results afterwards I suspect that the 7D/70-200 II combination has enough resolution available to shoot at 200 and crop massively yet still produce a good quality viewing experience - providing the shot is sharp in the first place.

It is my impression that whilst operating at f5.6 on my 1D3 and taking action shots the number of slightly soft results is a little higher than when working without the extender. However the way that focus systems can be tuned (or not) to specific circumstances leaves this open to further and more rigorous evalution. It is fair to say that the upper market bodies will tend to have one of more focus points that are specifically developed to make full use of f2.8 when it is available and that nearly all of the focus points would prefer to work at f5.6 or wider for optimal performance. In that respect using the extender will tend to work against the best aspects of the design criteria for the lens. This becomes more likely still in poor light.

Of course that is likely to be just as true for similar lenses working at the same fstops - the 100-400 for example. However the long 400mm+ primes tend to be around f4 or f4.5 where possible and may offer better results more consistently. Then again at their price, size and weight you would hope that they would be something special!

It would be interesting, if zooms are the primary criteria, to compare the 70-200 II, together with the Mk II and with the Mk III convertors, alongside the 100-400 or any other L spec lens that might come into consideration.

[2slo]

McMacro said:

Looks like some kind of automatic weapon in that low light shot (which I suppose it is)!

Rob & LongQ: thanks for those replies fellas,that explains extenders nicely. It also suggests that if using one then the f2.8 lenses are the preferred starting point where stop(s) are lost, i.e. an F4 lens with an extender would not be much use in low light shooting.
Don't think I'll be getting much photography done today, wet and windy outside here. Good day to read the manual

[LongQ]

2slo said:

It also suggests that if using one then the f2.8 lenses are the preferred starting point where stop(s) are lost, i.e. an F4 lens with an extender would not be much use in low light shooting.

Well, it depends. Once you get up to 400mm or so snd beyond the amount of glass required to let the light in becomes rather large and the lenses are big, heavy and expensive. And not really any faster (or at least not much faster) in the main. Adding an extender will tend to reduce the lens responsiveness for focusing in some situations and a large expensive prime will tend to have some special optical qualities that may not be quite as well nuanced with an extender on a shorter (and of course zoom in the instance) lens BUT the a big fast prime is one heck of a commitment unless you will be using it frequently to fulfil a real need.

As it happens I have an old, fully manual FD mount 600mm lens. f4'5 to 5.6. It's fun to use sometimes but having to use a convertor to fit it to an EOS body forces some compromises on absolute quality. Or maybe the okder lenses are not as good as the moderns on digital bodies. I don't know for certain. What I do know is that it's not the sort of thing I want to lug around all day so I only use it if I can get my car close to the point of use. OK, being fully manual it has some restrictions compared to using a modern version and that does not add any encouragement to the thought of using it but then if cost a fraction of what an EOS version would fetch.

The extender route gets you to about the same place, more or less, in many cases without the cost, physical fitness requirements and carrying bulk. However it does lose out in the 'making a statement' competition!

If you are thinging that you might need a long lens try one by hiring first. Unless money is no object, in which case order onem tryi it and see what you think. There is a reasonable used market to turn to if one needs to offload it at some point.