Canon 7D - best choice of CF card.
Discussion
Update: after the request for info I posted last week on my dilemna between the 7D and the 5D mk 11, I've decided on the 7D due to it's faster shooting speed, lower price and crop advantage when fitted with a longer lens for wildlife and sports photography which I'm hoping to use it for. I'm ordering it in a few days time with two lenses but I'll leave that for the moment and tell you about them later 
What I would like some advice on please is choice of memory cards. As those of you familiar with the 7D know, this camera uses a compact flash card. Sandisk are a make I've used before and would be happy with again, from what I've read 16GB is a reasonable size card. What I'm not sure about though is which of the two types the 7D needs? The write speed is where the cards differ. The 'extreme pro' has a write speed of 90MB/s and the cheaper (half the price for any comparable capacity) 'extreme' card has a write speed of 60MB/s. Now since the 7D can take 18Meg resolution JPEGs at the rate of 8 per second, does that mean the lower speed card will not be able to keep up if shooting, say, a 16 shot burst of motorsport action, with the camera buffer getting filled and nowhere for the data to go, or am I looking at this wrongly? Obviously if the lower speed card is fine for the task then I'd be happy to make the saving.
What do you think on which of these cards would be preferable, or indeed are there any other to the same format and whatever speed recommended?
Thanks again.
What I would like some advice on please is choice of memory cards. As those of you familiar with the 7D know, this camera uses a compact flash card. Sandisk are a make I've used before and would be happy with again, from what I've read 16GB is a reasonable size card. What I'm not sure about though is which of the two types the 7D needs? The write speed is where the cards differ. The 'extreme pro' has a write speed of 90MB/s and the cheaper (half the price for any comparable capacity) 'extreme' card has a write speed of 60MB/s. Now since the 7D can take 18Meg resolution JPEGs at the rate of 8 per second, does that mean the lower speed card will not be able to keep up if shooting, say, a 16 shot burst of motorsport action, with the camera buffer getting filled and nowhere for the data to go, or am I looking at this wrongly? Obviously if the lower speed card is fine for the task then I'd be happy to make the saving.
What do you think on which of these cards would be preferable, or indeed are there any other to the same format and whatever speed recommended?
Thanks again.
The 7D produces RAW files that tend to be between 20 and 25Mb in size. JPGs smaller of course and dependent on the size and quality selected.
If you fill the buffer the camera, as with others, simply stops allowing any shots to be taken until a suitable amount of buffer becomes available. How quickly the buffer clears depends on what processing us going on and then how quickly the file(s) can be writen to the card. Therefore the faster the potential write speed to the card the faster the buffer will clear and the sooner the ability to shoot is re-enabled. Likewise the number of frames available in a batch may be higher with a fastger card although typically this only matters if shooting RAW or RAW + JPG.
In real life how you shoot is the main factor. For example if you want to try and get a shot of all cars from a large grid as they start a race the chances are that you will fill the buffer before they have all passed. Likewise an interesting incident for which you shoot a sequence may well last for longer than the time it will take to fill the buffer, especially if you are working at 8 fps.
However as the file sizes created can vary by up to around 25% it's quite difficult to fully assess differences in real world use and bear in mind that the cards are only marketed as 'up to' for both write and read speed. (Indeed read speed may be more significant if download times are important to you. A full 16Gb card on a reasonably fast USB2 card reader and system can typically take up to 20 minutes to download.)
When I have been in the market for new cards I have usually manged to find a reasnably competitive deal for Sandisk Extreme (or earlier 'equivalent at the time' versions.) I have some others that also seem to perform well enough - by which I mean I don't notice an operational difference whether they are rated as slightly faster or slightly slower. I have not tried the 'Pro' versions so cannot comment on any benefits they may offer. However I use a 1D3 (which produced smaller files), typically limit the continuous speed to 5fps (because 10 fps as the 1D3 can shoot seems like overkill for typical motorsport and simply fills cards even faster) and write RAW to the CF card and jpg to the SD card slot which probably means the limiting factor is influenced a little by the speed of the SD card (always class 10 but that means little ...)
There have, in the past, been web sites that ran tests in reasonably controlled situations showing how cards and readers performed in different base scenarios. I presume there are similar sites that keep up to date but I have not checked for a while. It wold be interesting to run back to back tests with a view to see whether the differently priced performance sectors in the market really do offer more than speed label differentiated pricing in typical real world use.
Maybe someone on here already has the answers.
If you fill the buffer the camera, as with others, simply stops allowing any shots to be taken until a suitable amount of buffer becomes available. How quickly the buffer clears depends on what processing us going on and then how quickly the file(s) can be writen to the card. Therefore the faster the potential write speed to the card the faster the buffer will clear and the sooner the ability to shoot is re-enabled. Likewise the number of frames available in a batch may be higher with a fastger card although typically this only matters if shooting RAW or RAW + JPG.
In real life how you shoot is the main factor. For example if you want to try and get a shot of all cars from a large grid as they start a race the chances are that you will fill the buffer before they have all passed. Likewise an interesting incident for which you shoot a sequence may well last for longer than the time it will take to fill the buffer, especially if you are working at 8 fps.
However as the file sizes created can vary by up to around 25% it's quite difficult to fully assess differences in real world use and bear in mind that the cards are only marketed as 'up to' for both write and read speed. (Indeed read speed may be more significant if download times are important to you. A full 16Gb card on a reasonably fast USB2 card reader and system can typically take up to 20 minutes to download.)
When I have been in the market for new cards I have usually manged to find a reasnably competitive deal for Sandisk Extreme (or earlier 'equivalent at the time' versions.) I have some others that also seem to perform well enough - by which I mean I don't notice an operational difference whether they are rated as slightly faster or slightly slower. I have not tried the 'Pro' versions so cannot comment on any benefits they may offer. However I use a 1D3 (which produced smaller files), typically limit the continuous speed to 5fps (because 10 fps as the 1D3 can shoot seems like overkill for typical motorsport and simply fills cards even faster) and write RAW to the CF card and jpg to the SD card slot which probably means the limiting factor is influenced a little by the speed of the SD card (always class 10 but that means little ...)
There have, in the past, been web sites that ran tests in reasonably controlled situations showing how cards and readers performed in different base scenarios. I presume there are similar sites that keep up to date but I have not checked for a while. It wold be interesting to run back to back tests with a view to see whether the differently priced performance sectors in the market really do offer more than speed label differentiated pricing in typical real world use.
Maybe someone on here already has the answers.
I use a 16gig Adata 350x. Its not the fastest card but I can get 22-24 shots before hitting the wall and then 2 shots or so a second.
If you trully machine gun then the fastest udma6 card will be worth it. Otherwise not so important.
BTW I've seen 32meg raws! Higher iso also means larger file size too..
If you trully machine gun then the fastest udma6 card will be worth it. Otherwise not so important.
BTW I've seen 32meg raws! Higher iso also means larger file size too..
Thanks for those replies fellas, this is great for someone like me standing at the bottom of the ladder looking up! Especially:
LongQ said:
If you fill the buffer the camera, as with others, simply stops allowing any shots to be taken until a suitable amount of buffer becomes available. How quickly the buffer clears depends on what processing us going on and then how quickly the file(s) can be writen to the card. Therefore the faster the potential write speed to the card the faster the buffer will clear and the sooner the ability to shoot is re-enabled. Likewise the number of frames available in a batch may be higher with a fastger card although typically this only matters if shooting RAW or RAW + JPG.
So based on that info, I'm going to start with a smaller capacity slower write speed card (probably 4GB 60 MB/s)and see if it's fast enough for for the camera and my needs before buying a larger capacity card with a faster write speed (if necessary). TBH I can't imagine I'll have much need to take more than about 10 frames in a burst anyway and I'll have enough to learn shooting JPEG before even thinking about RAW! Whilst it's tempting to just buy the fastest card available the prices are eye watering, e.g. Sandisk extreme pro CF 128 GB £1370 (from Jacobs). Ouch! RobDickinson said:
Any even half decent cf card will let you shoot jpg for as long as you want without stopping.
Good, thanks. Best I think to learn the workings of the camera before trying to process the images, hence JPEG to start.Your advice on lens choice was spot on by the way. I've looked at the kit supplied 15 - 85mm which is good and the telephoto you recommended, the 70 - 200mm L series IS USM 11 which is superb. Doing the finances now and that's what I'm hoping to go with. Those two plus the 7D should cover everything I need.
2slo said:
So based on that info, I'm going to start with a smaller capacity slower write speed card (probably 4GB 60 MB/s)and see if it's fast enough for for the camera and my needs before buying a larger capacity card with a faster write speed (if necessary). TBH I can't imagine I'll have much need to take more than about 10 frames in a burst anyway and I'll have enough to learn shooting JPEG before even thinking about RAW! Whilst it's tempting to just buy the fastest card available the prices are eye watering, e.g. Sandisk extreme pro CF 128 GB £1370 (from Jacobs). Ouch!
Some of the latest greatest cards are often priced at funny money levels, especially those that are pushing the limits on memory size technology. Probably only the video fans need a card of that size!Firstly I wouldn't worry too much about learning to use RAW files. Basically they allow you some extra flexibility to extend the dynamic range of the images (so, using software, you can shift the exposure values up or down for the entire image or just parts of it, to cope with special situation and the linits of the camera).
A jpg output will have had this done already and be much less flexible for editing out anomalies. Likewise it will have had sharpening and noise reduction pre-applied and a lot of detail information binned to produce the smaller file size.
I would shoot both, use the provided software to process the RAW file to your liking (it's not too complicated - honestly) and then compare the results. Then decided if you have enough facilities available with the jpg output choices to satisfy everything you need.
Secondly there's not a lot of point in spending some serious money on some camera kit and then taking the odd shot. Keep pressing the button. If you do that you will fill the memory card quickly and learn a lot form the range of results. A much better return on the investment.
Thirdly ... if you follow the advise above you will ind a 4Gb card may be a useful backup but 16Gb is more practical.
Fourthly ... the highstreet stores, though convenient, are not the best places to get value for money on the add-ons and optional extras. For example the card you mentioned is available for under £700 from at least one on-line vendor. My choice would be something like the SanDisk Extreme (not the older Extreme III - if there are still some around - unless the price diffeential is good. Nothing wrong with the III - I have a couple from earlier days - but iirc the renamed Extreme is also faster at the 16Mb size.) or similar UDMA spec card. The problem with identifying what the spec is is that different manufacturers present the information in different ways. Iirc Wikipedia has the gen on the UDMA specs if you want to read up on it.
Currently target prices for a 16Mb SanDisk Extreme UDMA card would be around £65. Lexar tend to be similarly priced. There are a few other brands that offer similar specs at possibly slightly less money but sometime slightly more. Transcend, Kingston and Delkin come to mind. Own brand cards from various retailers might also be absolutely fine and should be cheaper. Probably cheap enough to take a punt and see what you think. They will always have a use for something.
Buy 2 (or more) - it's always good to have a spare.
Different capacity cards with the same 'family' brand from the same manufacturer are not always specified to the same speeds. It's best to check carefully. Remember that in part you should be looking at something that is 'future-proofing' the investment should faster suddenly become desireable.
Remember also that you might get sucked into using video, since it's available, and that will consume memory capacity faster than you ever imagined.
Finally - budget for additional disk capacity on your computer and be sure to back everything up after download. If I remember well the Canon software allows you to control downloads and send the results to 2 locations as part of the download/import process. It's not a bad place to start though you may move on to other applications to manage things for you as you get into the high end of this most interesting hobby.
HTH.
LongQ said:
Finally - budget for additional disk capacity on your computer and be sure to back everything up after download. If I remember well the Canon software allows you to control downloads and send the results to 2 locations as part of the download/import process. It's not a bad place to start though you may move on to other applications to manage things for you as you get into the high end of this most interesting hobby.HTH.
It does indeed, thanks for taking the time. Interesting how, in the time I've been away from having an interest in/ having the time for photography, the use of the computer has increased with almost everything now being digital. I'm fortunate to have a decent fast system with plenty of secondary hard drive free space and a couple of portable hard drives to supplement that. Looking forward to getting started. RobDickinson said:
Be carefull of fakes tho. Buy from someone reputable.
Yep.The better known web retailers like 7 Day Shop, My Memory and Play.com are safe bets as far as I can tell. They also tend to have just about the most competitive prices although it's always worth checking Amazon to see who is offering what. So long as you are not making a 'distress purchase' jjst keep an eye on them and a competitive offer will turn up.
The Extreme cards also come with access to SanDisk RescuePro software for file recovery. Works well if you accidentally delete files that you didn't mean to or files become 'lost' for some other reason. Can be on any drive or any card. I don;t think I have ever had to use it on a SanDisk media card but I have on a couple of cards from another vendor and on a disk that suffered some sort of odd and never diagnosed read failure.
Other maufacturers probably offer the same. Some SanDisk SDHC cards that arrived this morning have little cards in the boaxes advising how to get the soeftware if required and supplying a licence key.
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