Discussion
Am noticing this more and more in games of all types sadly.
An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
Now I have no issue with a gradual ramp up in a game, as you get better at it and perhaps get better equipment or weapons or increase your levels the difficulty has to increase for the game to seem as challenging if not a little more.
But recently I have played quite a few games that have been relatively easy until you get to a boss level, something that sort of fell away from games for a while, yet because of stuff like Dark Souls has made a return. I will admit I would never touch a Souls type game, that is not why I play,m to just be taught how to not die endlessly.
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I draw the line at stupidity and simple difficulty for the sake of it there.
An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
Now I have no issue with a gradual ramp up in a game, as you get better at it and perhaps get better equipment or weapons or increase your levels the difficulty has to increase for the game to seem as challenging if not a little more.
But recently I have played quite a few games that have been relatively easy until you get to a boss level, something that sort of fell away from games for a while, yet because of stuff like Dark Souls has made a return. I will admit I would never touch a Souls type game, that is not why I play,m to just be taught how to not die endlessly.
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I draw the line at stupidity and simple difficulty for the sake of it there.
bergclimber34 said:
Am noticing this more and more in games of all types sadly.
An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
...
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
You know there's a button you can press to activate Robocop's targeting optics, right? That let you see through the smoke? An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
...
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I think you're right, games might be a bit much for you.
Mastodon2 said:
bergclimber34 said:
Am noticing this more and more in games of all types sadly.
An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
...
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
You know there's a button you can press to activate Robocop's targeting optics, right? That let you see through the smoke? An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
...
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I think you're right, games might be a bit much for you.
I'm not sure - plenty of games I've played recently have a good scale, many having a "Story" mode if you just want to cheese it (Jedi Survivor, Indiana Jones, BG3). "Soulslike" games, such as Elden Ring have insane difficulty as part of their core, so it's a bit like buying an RPG and wanting to turn off the levelling.
I'd say it was the opposite. Does no one remember the insane difficulty of nearly every game in the 90's?
I'd say it was the opposite. Does no one remember the insane difficulty of nearly every game in the 90's?
I started playing games on an Amiga. The games came on a 3.5" floppy, and all of 1.44Mb, so they had to be quite hard so you wouldn't just beat it too soon and feel like you had been cheated - by the shop, and the game. (Still surprised how good some of those Amiga games looked, and how well they played, given the minuscule size!).
Now, I tend to play games on hard. Often on lower difficulties, to me, it just seems like I'm just going along. For some people they will like to follow the story and do games that way, which games will cater for. That's fine too.
I like the stories in games that have good ones.
But for me I LIKE games to be difficult. Not ever enjoyed "Souls-like" games, its just not the content I want. But I want it to be challenging. I want it to be different from how easy life can be (As in - I have never been attacked in life by a strange thing that psycho-kinetically throws everything in sight at you (Stalker2)). But also in life I can't go running about with a Saiga 12 and a sniper rifle called "Clusterf
k" 
I want them to be immersive...
I know "Git Gud" is kind of memey, but if you are failing really hard at something in a game, try doing it another way. Pretty much every game I have played on PC in the last 20 years gives you different approaches and ways to solve the problem in front of you.
Reload, try again
That's part of the fun!
Now, I tend to play games on hard. Often on lower difficulties, to me, it just seems like I'm just going along. For some people they will like to follow the story and do games that way, which games will cater for. That's fine too.
I like the stories in games that have good ones.
But for me I LIKE games to be difficult. Not ever enjoyed "Souls-like" games, its just not the content I want. But I want it to be challenging. I want it to be different from how easy life can be (As in - I have never been attacked in life by a strange thing that psycho-kinetically throws everything in sight at you (Stalker2)). But also in life I can't go running about with a Saiga 12 and a sniper rifle called "Clusterf
k" I want them to be immersive...
I know "Git Gud" is kind of memey, but if you are failing really hard at something in a game, try doing it another way. Pretty much every game I have played on PC in the last 20 years gives you different approaches and ways to solve the problem in front of you.
Reload, try again
That's part of the fun!Edited by Checkmate on Sunday 19th January 00:47
Pull a number. Get in line.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ninten...
I remember battletoads.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ninten...
I remember battletoads.
On the contrary, most modern games *want* to keep people engaged so they see the end, and provide plenty of assists and difficulty options to allow that to happen. Some include story mode that removed most of the challenge, and there’s plenty of guides online should you get stuck.
Games back in the 8bit era were phenomenally difficult by comparison. How many people do you think ever saw half of the levels in Manic Miner?
Games back in the 8bit era were phenomenally difficult by comparison. How many people do you think ever saw half of the levels in Manic Miner?
I could never get the hang of games like jet set willy and manic miner, far too hard 
The hardest games I've played recently (bearing in mind I don't play souls like games)
Helldivers 2, though it has 10 difficulty levels, with 1 being trivial. On the higher levels its often overwhelmingly difficult, but dying is part of the fun
Stalker 2, partly bad npc AI, they seem to instantly know where you are and can see you despite being behind cover and hit you with shotguns from quite a distance. The mutants are stupidly tanky, just a waste of ammo. (It's pretty good other than this though and there are loads of mods to tweak these things)
The hardest games I've played recently (bearing in mind I don't play souls like games)
Helldivers 2, though it has 10 difficulty levels, with 1 being trivial. On the higher levels its often overwhelmingly difficult, but dying is part of the fun
Stalker 2, partly bad npc AI, they seem to instantly know where you are and can see you despite being behind cover and hit you with shotguns from quite a distance. The mutants are stupidly tanky, just a waste of ammo. (It's pretty good other than this though and there are loads of mods to tweak these things)
I think the issue is that in recent years games that have clearly been made to be very difficult have also sold very well like the Souls games, so everyone follows on to that trend.
As for the naysayers, of course all the tracking was turned on, it makes little difference when the Ai hit you perfectly from 100 yards away through smoke and the tracking only really works when you are a bit closer. That is not the point, the point is someone cackling in a little sweaty room somewhere going "we will make this so hard you will die and give up" And yes I did, I don't play games to be treated like some sort of experiment by a snotty little developer who can't be bothered to try and come up something interesting, innovative and new and instead prevents progress by adding in content that is 20 times harder than anything you played up to that point, that is not great design, it is boring, sad and lazy.
As for the naysayers, of course all the tracking was turned on, it makes little difference when the Ai hit you perfectly from 100 yards away through smoke and the tracking only really works when you are a bit closer. That is not the point, the point is someone cackling in a little sweaty room somewhere going "we will make this so hard you will die and give up" And yes I did, I don't play games to be treated like some sort of experiment by a snotty little developer who can't be bothered to try and come up something interesting, innovative and new and instead prevents progress by adding in content that is 20 times harder than anything you played up to that point, that is not great design, it is boring, sad and lazy.
bergclimber34 said:
Am noticing this more and more in games of all types sadly.
An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
Now I have no issue with a gradual ramp up in a game, as you get better at it and perhaps get better equipment or weapons or increase your levels the difficulty has to increase for the game to seem as challenging if not a little more.
But recently I have played quite a few games that have been relatively easy until you get to a boss level, something that sort of fell away from games for a while, yet because of stuff like Dark Souls has made a return. I will admit I would never touch a Souls type game, that is not why I play,m to just be taught how to not die endlessly.
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I draw the line at stupidity and simple difficulty for the sake of it there.
Got to disagree. Apart from things like 'Soulslikes' where difficulty is part of what defines the genre and you are actually expected to die a lot, most modern games go out of their way to be generous to the player and just about anyone can finish the 'story' if they keep at it. I guess a lot of Roguelike games also tend to expect you to have to make many unsuccesful runs to improve your character/abilities over time, too.An almost pathological obsession developers have with making games overly difficult.
Now I have no issue with a gradual ramp up in a game, as you get better at it and perhaps get better equipment or weapons or increase your levels the difficulty has to increase for the game to seem as challenging if not a little more.
But recently I have played quite a few games that have been relatively easy until you get to a boss level, something that sort of fell away from games for a while, yet because of stuff like Dark Souls has made a return. I will admit I would never touch a Souls type game, that is not why I play,m to just be taught how to not die endlessly.
I was playing a Robocop game a bit ago and ended up having to dump it, it was so silly. I threw the towel in at a level where you had to kill a large number of heavily armoured bods with powerful guns. This would be fine, except they dropped smoke and could see you perfectly, so perfectly they hit you every time, yet of course you could not.
I draw the line at stupidity and simple difficulty for the sake of it there.
I have been going back and playing some old 8 and 16 bit games on my MiSTer recently and most of them feature what a lot of players these days would consider pretty brutal difficulty. Of course back then, games tended to be largely based on arcade principles (or just plain knock-offs of arcade games) and thus were mostly about reactions and pixel perfect manoeuvring. Not so many had deep mechanics and story like the typical modern game does, simply down to the limited specifications of the hardware of the time.
sanguinary said:
Alien Breed on the Amiga. Ruddy impossible!
I remember that there just didn't seem to be enough ammunition pickups to deal with all the enemies the game kept throwing at you as the ammo was limited but IIRC the Aliens would respawn infinitely. Pretty brutal, not sure I got too far into the game but it looked amazing for the time.Also, Project X looked amazing but was hard as nails. Shadow of the Beast, similar. But at the time, if you had grown up on 8bit games the 16bit stuff just looked and sounded so amazing that you didn't care. Plus the 8bit titles were usually equally hard so the 16bit titles didn't seem unusually difficult.
I think developers are missing a MASSIVE trick with 'Dad Mode' (c) Dundarach 2025
I'd happily pay for an FPS that I could just click a button and spend 15 minutes shooting everything!
I don't have the time, energy or patience to pick up, power up, level up and generally fk about!
I want the equivalent on consoles of 'DNKROZ' and if you know you know, with a single menu item!
I'd happily pay for an FPS that I could just click a button and spend 15 minutes shooting everything!
I don't have the time, energy or patience to pick up, power up, level up and generally f
k about!I want the equivalent on consoles of 'DNKROZ' and if you know you know, with a single menu item!
It's an interesting one. People rightly point out how hard games used to be in the 80 /90s and on YouTube there's been a renaissance of people going back and completing those games to see just how hard they were. The likes of Grand POOBear and ryukahr both make some really good vids on completing old games. I think one difference with a lot of games back then though was less that they were designed to be hard, but more that things like wonky hitboxes or simply the lack of lives and unforgiving game overs made them difficult. In a souls-like game you might need to try a boss fifty times to clear it, whereas in an original NES game you might only need 5 tries to beat the final boss so in that sense it's much easier, but if you've only got three lives and then it's game over and start again from scratch, people get frustrated and quit.
I'm not one for super hard games myself so I would give games by FromSoftware (the likes of Sekiro, Elden Ring and Armoured Core) a miss, which is a real shame as I own both Elden Ring and Armoured Core but got tired of the difficulty curve in both fairly quickly. But i think it's unfair to criticise the devs as these are hugely successful, much loved multi award winning games and if they did come with a 'story' setting it would take away a lot of the mystique surrounding them.
Apart from the FromSoftware and a few other souls like games I don't think they're getting harder. As has been posted above the introduction of a story mode to a lot of games removes the challenge altogether. I've recently been playing the new Indiana Jones game and that had two separate difficulty settings making the difficulty even more customisable.
I'm not one for super hard games myself so I would give games by FromSoftware (the likes of Sekiro, Elden Ring and Armoured Core) a miss, which is a real shame as I own both Elden Ring and Armoured Core but got tired of the difficulty curve in both fairly quickly. But i think it's unfair to criticise the devs as these are hugely successful, much loved multi award winning games and if they did come with a 'story' setting it would take away a lot of the mystique surrounding them.
Apart from the FromSoftware and a few other souls like games I don't think they're getting harder. As has been posted above the introduction of a story mode to a lot of games removes the challenge altogether. I've recently been playing the new Indiana Jones game and that had two separate difficulty settings making the difficulty even more customisable.
My brother and I finished Ghouls n Ghosts. There were certain parts of the game we could each do well so it was a joint effort. Played it since and I can't finish the first level.
Nowadays it's story mode all the way. I think a lot of it is time. I just don't have hours every day to play games like I did as a kid.
Nowadays it's story mode all the way. I think a lot of it is time. I just don't have hours every day to play games like I did as a kid.
Games were really difficult in the Vic20/ZX81 days, poor controls didn't help. Commodore 64/Spectrum games were a little easier for the most.
Then came consoles and everything got easier so people got longer games. Difficulty levels became the norm. "Come get some!"
Experienced gamers wanted a challenge and the Soulsborne games and clones arrived with punishing difficulty for beginners. Apart from a few bosses, they're not that difficult but require the right tactics.
Personally, I love the Soulsborne games by FROM Software but some of the clones are just OTT.
I've also recently been playing Astro Bot on PS5 and there's a great mix of easy to challenging to (optional) fiendishly tricky.
Then came consoles and everything got easier so people got longer games. Difficulty levels became the norm. "Come get some!"
Experienced gamers wanted a challenge and the Soulsborne games and clones arrived with punishing difficulty for beginners. Apart from a few bosses, they're not that difficult but require the right tactics.
Personally, I love the Soulsborne games by FROM Software but some of the clones are just OTT.
I've also recently been playing Astro Bot on PS5 and there's a great mix of easy to challenging to (optional) fiendishly tricky.
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