Thinking of Buying a Mustang - advice please

[simonbrooks]

Hi guys,

Thanks to a friendly corsa redesigning my 944 I find myself in the market for a new motor. I've been having a look around and quite fancy the look of a Mustang as something a little different. Let's face it they look amazing. I'm thinking somewhere between a 95 and an 01 plate. Anything I should look out for? Be aware of?

What are they like for running costs? Are parts easy to come by / expensive?

I know it's all kinda generalised but I'm not really sure what to go for. Thinking maybe a soft top!

Thanks in advance


Simon

[Roo]

Avoid the V6 and find a V8. They don't cost very much more to run. There are a lot of cars that age that have been imported from Japan. If you're looking at one of these check the transmission fluid has been changed if it's an auto.
Take a look here for more advice. www.mocgb.net/forums

[Slow M]

Hi Simon,
Look for a car with independent rear suspension. These examples can be made to handle very well with much less effort than the live axle cars. I think that, coming from a 944, you'd be sorely disappointed with the handling/roadholding characteristics of a solid rear axle Mustang.
Another option would be to purchase the best V8 Mustang that cheap money wil permit and keep reserve cash for a suspension swap. I believe (but have not researched) these rear subframes to be the same as Thunderbird LS (maybe LX?).
more here

[simonbrooks]

Thanks for the update guys, I really appreciate it. I'll have a hunt and see what I can find.

[Twin Turbo]

Hi Simon

As Roo says, you'll get great, friendly advice on the Mustang Owners Club forum www.mogcb.net

OK, with its solid rear axle, it may not handle like a 944, but unless you're taking it on a track, you won't be disappointed with the handling. There are plenty of V6 around on eBay but, as Roo says, check if they're Japanese imports and, if so, get the transmission fluid checked. V6s also like to blow head gaskets, so do the normal checks.

Running costs between the V6 and V8 are pretty similar, although the V8 is likely to retain its value more.

Parts won't be too difficult to get hold of and, worst case, you can get them shipped from one of a thousand suppliers States side.

I've got an '05 V8 coupe (the newer S197 - the model you're looking at is the SN95) which I use as a weekend toy. If I didn't have such a long commute (100 miles a day) I'd love an SN95 as my daily driver, as opposed to my BMW.

One of the best things about Mustang ownership is the help and friendship you'll find on the forum. Mustang owners really are a nice bunch

[300bhp/ton]

simonbrooks said:

Hi guys, Thanks to a friendly corsa redesigning my 944 I find myself in the market for a new motor. I've been having a look around and quite fancy the look of a Mustang as something a little different. Let's face it they look amazing. I'm thinking somewhere between a 95 and an 01 plate. Anything I should look out for? Be aware of? What are they like for running costs? Are parts easy to come by / expensive? I know it's all kinda generalised but I'm not really sure what to go for. Thinking maybe a soft top! Thanks in advance Simon

Hi there.

Afraid this is not simple as there is a lot of choice and variance. I guess a budget and maybe some expectations would be helpful, but I’ll try and post up as much advice as I can.

1. Don’t get a V6!!!!


1995-2001 spans 3 distinct phases in the Mustang lineup. However I’ll take a step further bax to the 92/93 model as it’ll help to understand the later ones.

Basically the 1992/3 Mustangs are what is known as the Fox body Mustang. These were introduced in the late 70’s or early 80’s. They do look understated compared to the newer shapes, but I actually like the look of them, my personal favourite is the notchback LS. These make good Q cars and kinda have the appearance of a bouncer in an Armani suit.

They came with Fords well know 302ci OHV V8, badged as 5.0 litre. This engine spans all the way back to the 60’s and original Mustang. It’s not the most powerful with either 215 or 225hp in stock trim (good for the time, a sport 3 Series Beemer would only have had 170hp). And quick enough to see 60mph in 6.5 sec and over 130mph top speed.

These engines are quite tunable and around 350hp n/a is pretty easy and there are lots of turbo and supercharger kits. These tend to make nearer 400hp if setup right.

The chassis on these Mustangs is not the best. But with a bit of work they can be made to handle quite well, not as refined as a 944 but well enough to surprise just about anyone or anything.

Their biggest attribute is weight, they about the same as an RX8, ok not a lightweight, but by todays standards they are pretty svelt.

The interiors are very 1980’s Ford. This age of Mustang is a love or loath affair. They are also quite rare in the UK but do offer a very good performance platform if you want a lower initial purchase price and a longer term build.

Prices of these in the US have spiralled in recent years, so I suspect they will remain rare with very few if any making the trip across the Atlantic.


1992 Mustang LX Notchback:


LX hatchback:


GT (only available as a hatch):



In the early 90’s Ford was actually considering binning the Mustang due to low sales at the time. In 1994 a group of enthusiasts helped to introduce a new model. This is known as the sn95 platform, I believe (although not certain) that it is a development of the old Fox platform from the previous generation Mustang (above).

The new long nose and rounded shape is certainly a change in styling direction.

For 1994-5 it used the same 5.0 litre OHV engine with 225hp. However these sn95’s weigh more than the old Foxbody Stangs so performance is slightly blunted. Basic suspension setup is very much the same.

With work they can be made to handle and go well. The ECU on these makes tuning a bit more difficult and there is less aftermarket support as they were only in production for 2 years.

1995 5.0 SN95 GT (no LX or notch, all V8's looked the same now):


In 1996 Ford introduced a new engine to replace the old OHV 5.0. The new engine was the OHC modular 4.6 V8. It’s a bit of a strange engine as it only made 215hp (less than the 5.0) was physically bigger and heavier and worse on fuel. And despite its OHC design it used only 2v per cylinder and was aimed at low end grunt and not revs.

1996 4.6 GT:


1999 saw the PI version of the 4.6 V8 and revised sharper styling. This upped the power to 260hp and was a welcome upgrade. These Mustangs are actually fairly quick with 0-60mph in under 6 sec and 140mph top speed. The suspension is still the same.

The PI engine with 260hp remained until the last sn95 models of 2004.

1999+ GT "New Edge":


For ALL of the Mustangs try and avoid the automatic gearbox. It really blunts performance and economy and hinders mods and HP. The manual 5 speed is the only one to go for.

My advice would be to buy as a late as possible GT with a PI engine, either that or go for an early 90’s Fox body and mod it to how you want it.

The live rear on these may not be the best or most sophisticated but can be made to handle quite well. The best thing is to convert to a Tri-link setup, but this is not the cheapest. Shocks, springs, ARB’s and bushes will make a big difference at sensible cost. They will never be as balanced or delicate as a 944, but they can be made fast, fun and controllable which IMO is the most important things. It is possible to fit IRS but it will cost to do it.

Over the years Ford have produced high performance variants of the Mustangs called Cobra’s. These are built by Ford’s SVT department. As a rule they have more power, suspension upgrades and trim packages.

The early Cobra’s used the 5.0 litre engine as per the regular GT model. With the advent of the 4.6 modular motor the Cobra’s started using the DOHC variant of the engine. These made more power, but some accuse them of being too revvy with too tall gearing (although this is easy to fix).

In 1999 or 2000 (I think) the Cobra also was introduced with IRS and a claimed 320hp. Ford had lots of issues with the engines not making the power which resulted in legal action and eventual vehicle recalls to resolve the problem. Any of these in the UK would need to be checked to make sure they are up to spec, if not haggle the price down hard! It’s actually easy to sort out the hp issue and most owners would replace the bits that make a difference anyhow so it doesn’t matter if it’s not been fettled.

1999 Mustang Cobra:


2001 Cobra’s revived a 6 speed t56 gearbox.

There was no 2002 Cobra (except limited edition to Oz)

2003/4 Cobra’s were the best with a supercharged V8. These however are very very rare in the UK and sell for huge sums of money.


Overall the Cobra’s are better performing vehicles than the standard GT spec Mustang. But they’ll often cost more. So it’s worth remembering a cheaper GT with a few mods may well exceed the Cobra’s performance.


Other notable models:

The Bullit Edition – partly a marketing campaign. The car was in dark green like the original in the film. It’s basically a GT with a few styling changes and a different intake, they make 265hp. Rarity will hold prices higher and I’ve never seen one in the UK.



Mach 1 – arguably one of the best sn95 Mustangs. They are a GT with the live rear suspension but have an alloy DOHC 305hp 4.6 V8. This makes the lighter and handle better than the GT’s. They also tend to be faster than the 320hp Cobra’s due to gearing and engine powerband. They also look very cool with a “shaker” scoop through the bonnet. Quite rare in the UK and hold their money well, but I have seen a few.




That sort of raps up the Mustangs. One thing to note is that for some reason Mustangs seem to hold their money well in the UK. This means cars like the Camaro and Firebird are often overshadowed. I think it’s down to Mustang simply being more well known.

So my advice would be to have a look at some Fbody’s also.

An Fbody is a Chevrolet Camaro or Pontiac Trans Am. They are basically the same car and were the Mustangs direct (an often only) competitor.

While these are often cheaper than the same age Mustang, they still hold their money well comared to most cars.

3rd gen cars. These were in production until 1992. More distinctive and prettier than the same year Mustang. Engine’s where 5.0 or 5.7 V8 depending on model. In earlier years these were cited for their good handling.

3rd Gen Camaro:


3rd Gen Firebird Trans Am:



A slightly bigger car than the Mustang and can still be quickish. But the Fox body Mustang did hold the performance edge. The Mustang is also arguably more tunable also.

In 1993 however things changed dramatically. The 4th Gen Fbody was launched. These also handle well in stock trim and with a few mods can be made superb. They were also equipped with the new at the time 5.7 LT1 OHV V8. It was rated at 275hp compared to the Mustangs 215hp. However this engine was also used in the C4 Corvette rated at 300hp. Some believe and claim the Fbody variant also produced about 300hp. Performance wise these sprint to 60mph in well under 6 sec and will top 150mph. They should also do 0-100mph in under 15 sec. To top it all off they are also more economical than the V8 Mustangs and available with a much better automatic gearbox or a T56 6 speed manual.

Ford did eventually respond to the LT1 engine in 1998 with the PI version of the 4.6 V8. However GM refreshed the Fbody range that year also with a face lift inside and out. They also fitted the brand new alloy LS1 V8. This is still the current engine type used in the brand new Corvette ZR1 today.

The LS1 was rated at 305hp in the Fbody, although most believe it produces 320-350hp stock. Performance wise 5.x 0-60mph, 13.x sec 0-100mph (quicker for a manual) and electronically limited top speed of 158mph. They will still manage 22-28mpg in daily driving.


Overall since 1993 up to 2002 (when Fbody production stopped) the Camaro and Firebird outperformed the Mustang in every category.

Even the latest s197 Mustang introduced in 2005 doesn’t match the 1998 Fbody performance stats.


Notable Fbody models:

Chevrolet
Camaro z28 – this is the V8 version of the Camaro
Camaro SS – basically a z28 but with some styling changes, suspension upgrades and some bolt on mods (induction and exhaust) these tend to make 20-30hp more than the z28. Although these mods are easy to perform on a z28

1993-97 4th Camaro:


1998-2002 4th gen Camaro:


Pontiac

Forebird Formula – looked like a V6 Firebird but with a V8
Firebird Trans Am – the V8 variant of the Firebird with some styling changes
Firebird Trans Am WS6 – essentially the same as a Camaro SS. Bit more power, styling and suspension.
Firehawk – limited edition and never seen one in the UK.

1993-1997 Firebird Trans Am:


1998-2002 Firebird Trans Am:



Sorry for such a long post, but there’s quite a lot of info and it’d take you ages to find it all out otherwise. Hope it helps, any questions just post them up. I’m sure someone will be able to answer them, lot of knowledgeable people on here.




PS – I’ll try and add some pics to this post later one to help ID the different models.



EDIT: corrections and pics.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 25th September 12:39

[simonbrooks]

Wow, so much info. Thanks for that! I guess I need to do some more research.

It looks like I'll be a bit busy for a while!

As a guide, at the moment I'm a little strapped for too much cash so my max is looking like £4500-5000 which seems to give me some nice options, albeit mostly autos!

I'll have a hunt and see what I can find.

Thank you so much for the help!

Simon

[300bhp/ton]

That money would easily get you a nice LT1 Camaro and with a bit of a hunt with a 6 speeder. On a car you'll want to add a nice exhaust if it doesn't have one already (but this goes for the Mustang too).

If lucky you might find an Ls1 at that money, but I think you'd need more like £6k.

Late model (2001+) Mustang GT's seem to be rare and often expensive (have seen £8-9k).

So if it's a Stang I'd look for a Cobra or late model GT. The good thing about the Cobra is they are all manuals, they didn't make them as auto.

Part of me says check out the fox body Stangs though. I really love these myself and could easily be swayed into buying one...

[HereBeMonsters]

I just had one as a hire car for two weeks. It was great in the States, but I wouldn't want one here...just totally the wrong car for the wrong environment. Like having a Caterham over there or something.

[300bhp/ton]

HereBeMonsters said:

I just had one as a hire car for two weeks. It was great in the States, but I wouldn't want one here...just totally the wrong car for the wrong environment. Like having a Caterham over there or something.

What makes you say that?

A Mustang is no bigger or less capable than most BMW's, Mercs, Jags, or other large'ish coupes/saloons.

[HereBeMonsters]

300bhp/ton said:

HereBeMonsters said:

I just had one as a hire car for two weeks. It was great in the States, but I wouldn't want one here...just totally the wrong car for the wrong environment. Like having a Caterham over there or something.

What makes you say that?

A Mustang is no bigger or less capable than most BMW's, Mercs, Jags, or other large'ish coupes/saloons.

That's the thing. Over there, it's sports car. Over here it becomes a wallowy, out of place mess. Just my opinion of course. I'm sure the Shelby and GT versions are very, very different, and I imagine the hard top is slightly better dynamically than the convertible we had.
Still, blasting up Highway 1 with the roof down was bloody good fun...

[300bhp/ton]

HereBeMonsters said:

300bhp/ton said:

HereBeMonsters said:

I just had one as a hire car for two weeks. It was great in the States, but I wouldn't want one here...just totally the wrong car for the wrong environment. Like having a Caterham over there or something.

What makes you say that?

A Mustang is no bigger or less capable than most BMW's, Mercs, Jags, or other large'ish coupes/saloons.

That's the thing. Over there, it's sports car. Over here it becomes a wallowy, out of place mess. Just my opinion of course. I'm sure the Shelby and GT versions are very, very different, and I imagine the hard top is slightly better dynamically than the convertible we had.
Still, blasting up Highway 1 with the roof down was bloody good fun...

Was it a base model V6?

Have to say I've not found them to be wallowy at all. My Camaro is very tight and handles well, I thought the s197 GT I drove was pretty good too. This would be comparing them to a Jag XJS, MG ZT260, Merc SL500.

[simonbrooks]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I'm heading out tomorrow to have a look at a few! There's a Couple of Camaros, and a couple of GTs I want to see.

Once again Thanks to all

Simon

[Mustang Baz]

Resurrecting an old (but excellent) topic; I am incredibly reluctantly coming to the view that I will be shortly selling my much loved 2000 GT Convertible (lack of future use anticipated with new family car and TVR already).

Aside from the MOCGB and Pistonheads classifieds, is there anywhere else others would recommend I put the car up for sale? Autotrader and EBay seems to have few examples, but I suppose that is where the mass-market would lie - am fearful however of lots of tyre-kickers and time wasters.

[Huffy]

You could try Car and Classic as a left filed option - perhaps not as mainstream......although I looked at a car advertised there and not anywhere else - in part depends whether you are after the enthusiast or the chancer

[Mustang Baz]

Huffy said:

You could try Car and Classic as a left filed option - perhaps not as mainstream......although I looked at a car advertised there and not anywhere else - in part depends whether you are after the enthusiast or the chancer

Many thanks. As regards purchaser, seeking the former hopefully; not interested in getting mired in a round of pointless test drives by time wasters/chancers!

[Twin Turbo]

If you put it on eBay, do it as a classified ad. That should help to rid you of test-pilots/tyre kickers.

Otherwise, as you've already stated, put it on here or MOCGB.

[john3883]

I reccomend and 03/04 cobra. It would take a fully built motor in another mustang to beat its performance. Also it comes with IRS and makes a huge difference compared to the regular mustangs. Also with different pulley for the supercharger and retune with intake and exhaust they tend to gain 70 BHP on average. so pretty much 500 BHP easy.(stock they are underrated 390 HP) If you got the time to pick and choose i would wait to find one even though it might be bit pricey.

[HD Adam]

Simon

I've sent you an email through the site.

I'm putting my DD up for sale. 1997 4.6 V8, US Spec, 5 speed manual, black leather interior and its right in your price range

Contact me if you want to talk further

[Mustang Baz]

Mustang Baz said:

Huffy said:

You could try Car and Classic as a left filed option - perhaps not as mainstream......although I looked at a car advertised there and not anywhere else - in part depends whether you are after the enthusiast or the chancer

Many thanks. As regards purchaser, seeking the former hopefully; not interested in getting mired in a round of pointless test drives by time wasters/chancers!

Now on the PH classifieds and on the MOCGB site so thanks for the input chaps.