The Dream is...
Discussion
...still very much alive for anyone that's interested, the mustang is a matter of when now, not if (My dad would still rather me buy a BMW 6 series). I just need to save up some dosh (now made even harder by overtime being cut to 0 at work 
).
Should I go for a manual or an automatic? I'm guessing day to day aside from the obvious there isn't going to be a huge difference? or should I definitely go for a manual?
Matt
).Should I go for a manual or an automatic? I'm guessing day to day aside from the obvious there isn't going to be a huge difference? or should I definitely go for a manual?
Matt
I would go for the manual. The automatic is good and brilliant for traffic and just being lazy and to some degree, you may be limited by what is available as there are far more autos made than manuals (although less so than in the past). The stock manual isn't bad but you will probably want to change out the shifter to an aftermarket one.
The only advantage the auto has over the manual, aside from the traffic, is that it will generally last with just fluid changes whereas manuals will need a clutch change at some point which is never particularly cheap.
There are two main Mustang sites - http://www.mocgb.net/forums/index.php - which is the UK club and caters for all Mustangs and http://www.s197.co.uk/phpBB3/index.php which is just for the 2005-on S197 Mustang. You'll get a lot more views on the elative merits and information there.
The only advantage the auto has over the manual, aside from the traffic, is that it will generally last with just fluid changes whereas manuals will need a clutch change at some point which is never particularly cheap.
There are two main Mustang sites - http://www.mocgb.net/forums/index.php - which is the UK club and caters for all Mustangs and http://www.s197.co.uk/phpBB3/index.php which is just for the 2005-on S197 Mustang. You'll get a lot more views on the elative merits and information there.
This depends largly on your preference.
I've got an auto in my Camaro, but would gladly swap it for a manual any day of the week, depsite being very good with an auto.
Auto's are good for drag racing if oyu plan to get into that and are evidently nice in traffic and cruising, but ultimatley they aren't as much fun and do lack the control a manual gives you.
Manuals often tend to whole a premium in the UK. This is mainly because nearly all Brits are frigging idiots and believe all American cars are auto's.
When I've looked into most Pony cars sold in the US are equipped with manual gearboxes, which is also the standard transmission with auto being optional.
I say go manual!
I've got an auto in my Camaro, but would gladly swap it for a manual any day of the week, depsite being very good with an auto.
Auto's are good for drag racing if oyu plan to get into that and are evidently nice in traffic and cruising, but ultimatley they aren't as much fun and do lack the control a manual gives you.
Manuals often tend to whole a premium in the UK. This is mainly because nearly all Brits are frigging idiots and believe all American cars are auto's.
When I've looked into most Pony cars sold in the US are equipped with manual gearboxes, which is also the standard transmission with auto being optional.
I say go manual!
Glad to hear it
The auto is a very good one.....much better than I thought it would be, even if there's no "tiptronic" manual over-ride. I wouldn't swap it for my manual though. It's not the smoothest changer, but it just adds to the "muscle" factor.
Get over to the S197 site for plenty of great advice.
The auto is a very good one.....much better than I thought it would be, even if there's no "tiptronic" manual over-ride. I wouldn't swap it for my manual though. It's not the smoothest changer, but it just adds to the "muscle" factor.
Get over to the S197 site for plenty of great advice.
Thanks gents, I had noticed the marked increase in manual gearboxes and I wondered if there was something "uber" about them.
I did test drive a manual last year and I liked it, though I haven’t ever driven any sort of automatic, well apart from the flappy paddle DB9 - I'd rather have a manual but I'd have to wait longer to get my hands on one.
My only concern with the Mustang is the size – I just hope I can get it onto the driveway.
Matt
I did test drive a manual last year and I liked it, though I haven’t ever driven any sort of automatic, well apart from the flappy paddle DB9
- I'd rather have a manual but I'd have to wait longer to get my hands on one.My only concern with the Mustang is the size – I just hope I can get it onto the driveway.
Matt
Well so far my search for a Mustang is proving rather fruitless, I cannot find a single one for my budget. Ok well that's a lie I can find loads of Mustangs but they are all V6's and no offense to any Mustang V6 owners but for me it's a V8 or nothing.
What I would like:-
S197 Mustang
V8
Auto/Manual - not too fussed.
Premium interior package, a must have.
Colours - anything but Red (red fades and I intend keeping the car for as long as I can)
Stripes, not bothered if it has them it has them, if it doesn't then it doesn't.
My budget, including selling my Focus ST (I want a minimum of £11k for that) + 2k cash, no more as I aren't willing to borrow any more money, I have a big enough loan as it is, So £13k total.
So if anyone knows of one let me know and I'll have a look, or with my budget am I better off with something else?
Ohh, and I have joined s197.co.uk forums, but I am still waiting for my forum membership to be approved (over a week now)
Matt
What I would like:-
S197 Mustang
V8
Auto/Manual - not too fussed.
Premium interior package, a must have.
Colours - anything but Red (red fades and I intend keeping the car for as long as I can)
Stripes, not bothered if it has them it has them, if it doesn't then it doesn't.
My budget, including selling my Focus ST (I want a minimum of £11k for that) + 2k cash, no more as I aren't willing to borrow any more money, I have a big enough loan as it is, So £13k total.
So if anyone knows of one let me know and I'll have a look, or with my budget am I better off with something else?
Ohh, and I have joined s197.co.uk forums, but I am still waiting for my forum membership to be approved (over a week now)
Matt
Nowt wrong with red young man :-)
Hang on and you'll get what you're looking for eventually, but do start saving up a bit more as I reckon you'll need at least £15K for a good 'un. Do not buy anything until someone with a clue has had a look at the SVA work though - the SJB (elec-trickery box) is very easy to screw up and costly to repair.
Hang on and you'll get what you're looking for eventually, but do start saving up a bit more as I reckon you'll need at least £15K for a good 'un. Do not buy anything until someone with a clue has had a look at the SVA work though - the SJB (elec-trickery box) is very easy to screw up and costly to repair.
Sadly Matt, I think you may well and truly have missed the boat. EWith the dollar value crashing and the £ so weak, the cost of a new 2010 Mustang is now around £34000. the knock-on effect is that not only have second-hand Mustang prices gone back up (around £16-18k is normal for a nice GT)but dealers can't find any used stock to sell.
If you want a similar experience, then the LS1-engined camaros are well within your price range and under £7k and make a great base for modifying with 305hp as standard. Something like this might be worth looking at. I had one and I loved it but it needs new shocks and lowering springs, 18" wheels and tyres and some subframe braces and strut tower brace to make a 4 seater Corvette.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/846912.htm
This was mine:
If that's not your cup of cha and you can manage with 2 seats then the Corvette C5 is a fabulous buy:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/998006.htm
If you want a similar experience, then the LS1-engined camaros are well within your price range and under £7k and make a great base for modifying with 305hp as standard. Something like this might be worth looking at. I had one and I loved it but it needs new shocks and lowering springs, 18" wheels and tyres and some subframe braces and strut tower brace to make a 4 seater Corvette.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/846912.htm
This was mine:
If that's not your cup of cha and you can manage with 2 seats then the Corvette C5 is a fabulous buy:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/998006.htm
That is what I feared, sadly I'm not likely to be able to get £15k by the end of the year as overtime has been cut to 0 at work, as the budget is already blown, so I am now only saving £200 pcm rather than £550 .
The 'Vette as much as I love them is sadly out of the running, seats no problem 2 is fine, but I need the boot space of the mustang.
The Camaro is an interesting proposition though I'd not really looked at them until the last E.Yorks PH meet when someone bought one, I liked it allot actually I might have a look at those instead.
Cheers,
Matt
.The 'Vette as much as I love them is sadly out of the running, seats no problem 2 is fine, but I need the boot space of the mustang.
The Camaro is an interesting proposition though
I'd not really looked at them until the last E.Yorks PH meet when someone bought one, I liked it allot actually I might have a look at those instead.Cheers,
Matt
Sorry to hear your woes.
Couple of points I’d like to make
1. I’d still go and have a look at a C5 Vette if you haven’t already. The boot space on them is actually pretty good. Although I guess it might still be pushing the budget.
2. I also 2nd the idea of a Camaro (or Trans Am, basically the same car). I’ll have had mine 4 years by the end of this summer. Ok it’s not quite a Corvette but it does do quite a good impression in the performance stakes. You can pick them up for peanuts at the moment too, so if you plan to keep, now is the time to buy. Also being cheaper will mean you can get a few mods on there. I do love the way the Mustang looks, but the Camaro (or even more so a Trans Am) will still attract a lot of attention and having driven a s197 is just as capable.
3. Lastly, if you have your heart set on a Mustang it might be worth considering a late model sn95. They are very rare in the UK, so much more exclusive than the s197. They are also pretty capable cars too. The one I’d look for is a Mach 1, these came with the aluminium DOHC 4.6 variant of the V8 and are more powerful and faster than a stock s197 GT. It should also be in budget. If not then a post 1999 Mustang GT would still be a good car (they look better after 2001 though), it will be a little down on power compared to the rest of the offerings (260hp) but if you buy at the right price you’d probably have enough budget left over to buy a supercharger kit for it.
My car LS1 5.7 Camaro z/28 (320-350hp depending on year):
Pontiac Trans Am (same car as Camaro):
Mustang Mach 1 32v 4.6 V8 (produces around 320hp, although rated at 305hp by Ford): [img] http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2172/8...
Mustang GT 16v V8 4.6 (260hp): [img] http://www.worldclassicautos.com/pcfiles/images7/2...
Couple of points I’d like to make
1. I’d still go and have a look at a C5 Vette if you haven’t already. The boot space on them is actually pretty good. Although I guess it might still be pushing the budget.
2. I also 2nd the idea of a Camaro (or Trans Am, basically the same car). I’ll have had mine 4 years by the end of this summer. Ok it’s not quite a Corvette but it does do quite a good impression in the performance stakes. You can pick them up for peanuts at the moment too, so if you plan to keep, now is the time to buy. Also being cheaper will mean you can get a few mods on there. I do love the way the Mustang looks, but the Camaro (or even more so a Trans Am) will still attract a lot of attention and having driven a s197 is just as capable.
3. Lastly, if you have your heart set on a Mustang it might be worth considering a late model sn95. They are very rare in the UK, so much more exclusive than the s197. They are also pretty capable cars too. The one I’d look for is a Mach 1, these came with the aluminium DOHC 4.6 variant of the V8 and are more powerful and faster than a stock s197 GT. It should also be in budget. If not then a post 1999 Mustang GT would still be a good car (they look better after 2001 though), it will be a little down on power compared to the rest of the offerings (260hp) but if you buy at the right price you’d probably have enough budget left over to buy a supercharger kit for it.
My car LS1 5.7 Camaro z/28 (320-350hp depending on year):
Pontiac Trans Am (same car as Camaro):
Mustang Mach 1 32v 4.6 V8 (produces around 320hp, although rated at 305hp by Ford): [img] http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2172/8...
Mustang GT 16v V8 4.6 (260hp): [img] http://www.worldclassicautos.com/pcfiles/images7/2...
300bhp/ton said:
Couple of points I’d like to make
1. I’d still go and have a look at a C5 Vette if you haven’t already. The boot space on them is actually pretty good. Although I guess it might still be pushing the budget.
The boot on my Z06 was actually bigger than my Mustang. The Corvette has a flat floor as it uses a lateral leaf spring which is incredibly spae-efficient.1. I’d still go and have a look at a C5 Vette if you haven’t already. The boot space on them is actually pretty good. Although I guess it might still be pushing the budget.
300bhp/ton said:
2. I also 2nd the idea of a Camaro (or Trans Am, basically the same car). I’ll have had mine 4 years by the end of this summer. Ok it’s not quite a Corvette but it does do quite a good impression in the performance stakes. You can pick them up for peanuts at the moment too, so if you plan to keep, now is the time to buy. Also being cheaper will mean you can get a few mods on there. I do love the way the Mustang looks, but the Camaro (or even more so a Trans Am) will still attract a lot of attention and having driven a s197 is just as capable.
The F-body is a lot floppier structurally than the Mustang but you can buy weld-on subframe connectors to stiffen the shell and the strut tower brace tightens up the front end. I recommend the Bilstein BTS kit for the Camaro/Firebird which comes with lower springs and dampers. A set of lower control arms and uprated sway bars complete the transformation.300bhp/ton said:
3. Lastly, if you have your heart set on a Mustang it might be worth considering a late model sn95. They are very rare in the UK, so much more exclusive than the s197. They are also pretty capable cars too. The one I’d look for is a Mach 1, these came with the aluminium DOHC 4.6 variant of the V8 and are more powerful and faster than a stock s197 GT. It should also be in budget.
The Mach 1 has 2 valve per cylinder dohc 305hp V8, the 2005 Mustang has 300hp 3v per cylinder single variable cam. There's not much in it in terms of power but the ne Mustang is way ahead on handling. Academic though as very few in the UK and they only appeared in 2003-4 and tend to keep their price through rarity. Same applies to the 2001 260hp Bullitt. You can buy a Cobra which also has 305hp but for my money, a DOHC engine is a lot of complication to get the same output as the 305hp LS1 in the Camaro/Firebird and the tests all had the F-body as the better car.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_For...
300bhp/ton said:
If not then a post 1999 Mustang GT would still be a good car (they look better after 2001 though), it will be a little down on power compared to the rest of the offerings (260hp) but if you buy at the right price you’d probably have enough budget left over to buy a supercharger kit for it.
My experience on the Mustang forums tends to show this model Mustang is less satisfying to drive than the later ones but having said that, paying the right price gives scope to modify and Griggs Racing have them modified to lap a circuit faster than a Ford GT.Personally, I still miss my Camaro although would be less inclined to had I not modified it as it was a bit floppy (consequence of the T-top) and would wag it's tail when pressed so budget for mods noting the exchange rate is currently not good. A set of uprated brakes is also a good idea although performance pads improve things a lot. It had more character than the Mustang.
Only thing I would say is I would definitely buy a 1998-on LS1-engined car. They stopped making them in 2002. If you can find a UK spec car (bumper-integrated rear fog lights), they are usually better-specced than the American models. Top UK models came with leather Firebird seats and a 12 CD boot changer, switchable traction control and T-tops. The leather seats are much better than the cloth ones. Again, finding one may be the hardest part.
Failing all that, there is still the Monaro.
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 30th April 14:00
The pre 2003 Cobra's are a different kettle of fish. Not that fast for the specs, I'd rather have a GT and mod.
But the Mach 1 is a much better car IMO, it does have the DOHC 4v per cylinder engine though. And while Ford rate it at 305bhp, if you slap one on a dyno and then slap a 300bhp s197 the Mach will make more than 5rwhp more. It's a worthy alternative and looks great with its active shaker scoop
I agree the handling on the sn95 is not as good though, but a few well chosen mods and maybe a swap to a tri-link rear end (similar to an Fbody) should make a world of difference. They are also pretty light, slightly lighter than a s197.
But trouble will be finding a Mach 1 in the UK, although I've seen a few.
But the Mach 1 is a much better car IMO, it does have the DOHC 4v per cylinder engine though. And while Ford rate it at 305bhp, if you slap one on a dyno and then slap a 300bhp s197 the Mach will make more than 5rwhp more. It's a worthy alternative and looks great with its active shaker scoop
I agree the handling on the sn95 is not as good though, but a few well chosen mods and maybe a swap to a tri-link rear end (similar to an Fbody) should make a world of difference. They are also pretty light, slightly lighter than a s197.
But trouble will be finding a Mach 1 in the UK, although I've seen a few.
Dynos are a variable quantity with variable calculated outputs so I don't give any value to them unless they relate to two cars dynoed at the same time. After all, the LS1 dynoes at 295hp at the rear wheels and some claim 320rwhp on certain dynos which underlines their unreliability IMHO.
I can accept the evidence of GM under-rating the Camaro output to distance it from the Corvette and preserve it's halo model status but what gain would Ford get from it. Their 1999 Cobra didn't even make the claimed 305hp until they recalled them. The argument that it related to insurance surely doesn't hold any water with stock 300 plus hp outputs. Perhaps it's just down to production differences, it's always been the case that some are faster than others.
I've just thought of something else too. The 1998 LS1 Camaro/Firebird have different computers to the 1999-on and are almost impossible to tune as a result. The rule with all GM producton cars is the later they are, the better they get.
Anyway, good luck with the search.
I can accept the evidence of GM under-rating the Camaro output to distance it from the Corvette and preserve it's halo model status but what gain would Ford get from it. Their 1999 Cobra didn't even make the claimed 305hp until they recalled them. The argument that it related to insurance surely doesn't hold any water with stock 300 plus hp outputs. Perhaps it's just down to production differences, it's always been the case that some are faster than others.
I've just thought of something else too. The 1998 LS1 Camaro/Firebird have different computers to the 1999-on and are almost impossible to tune as a result. The rule with all GM producton cars is the later they are, the better they get.
Anyway, good luck with the search.
LuS1fer said:
Dynos are a variable quantity with variable calculated outputs so I don't give any value to them unless they relate to two cars dynoed at the same time. After all, the LS1 dynoes at 295hp at the rear wheels and some claim 320rwhp on certain dynos which underlines their unreliability IMHO.
There’s nothing wrong with dyno’s, you just need to look past the initial numbers to the detail.The biggest variance comes in the form of two main types of dyno. Inertia Dynojets and eddy current load bearing Mustang Dyno’s. This is nearly always the reason of the variance in numbers. STD or SAE correction and graph smoothing are other issues too.
But that aside, as a rule of thumb, Mach 1’s (no matter the dyno) out HP stock s197 GT’s. This is also reflected in their stock ¼ ET’s and trap speeds.
Not knocking the s197’s. But at the end of the say they both run the same engine, only the Mach has DOHC 4v per cylinder instead of the fancy 3v SOHC the s197 uses. With better breathing and curtain area it really should be making more HP.
And with yours its hardly a matter anyway....... BTW – what blower do you run, I’ve never asked?
LuS1fer said:
I can accept the evidence of GM under-rating the Camaro output to distance it from the Corvette and preserve it's halo model status but what gain would Ford get from it. Their 1999 Cobra didn't even make the claimed 305hp until they recalled them. The argument that it related to insurance surely doesn't hold any water with stock 300 plus hp outputs. Perhaps it's just down to production differences, it's always been the case that some are faster than others.
I don’t know the reasons. But Ford seemed to do it with the 2003/4 Mustang Cobra’s too. They claimed 390bhp, yet the lowest they’ll dyno is around 360rwhp with some making ~380rwhp on Dynojet dyno’s. No matter how you slice it, it’ll always add up to more than 390bhp flywheel. Trap times would confirm this too. A stock Cobra has the ability to trap 112mph, that’s slightly better than the new Camaro SS and they weigh similar.LuS1fer said:
I've just thought of something else too. The 1998 LS1 Camaro/Firebird have different computers to the 1999-on and are almost impossible to tune as a result. The rule with all GM producton cars is the later they are, the better they get.
Anyway, good luck with the search.
Quite correct. Although I think there are ways of tuning them now. But 2001+ model year is the one to go for as it had all the better parts.Anyway, good luck with the search.
Not entirely. For the OP, I took this off a US Forum years ago. It sets out the differences between years (and also suggests that green Z28 is a 1998 model). I take no responsibility for it's accuracy though.
1998
1. Had different casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
2. Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers individually.
3. The water temp gauge actually works.
4. Only LS1 year to not have an oil life monitor
5. WS6s had single outlet exhaust (all others had duals) (not in Europe)
6. Steering wheel controls were completely different part with indentations on the buttons, and were better built
7. Only year that Purple, Gold, and Green were available
8. Some very early Trans-Ams came with LT1 style headrests
9. Rear hatch release was poorly designed and often caused problems releasing mechanism
10. Early model 98 Monsoon stereos didn’t have capability to control 12-disc CD changer
11. 1998-1999 automatic transmission LS1s could be started in 1st gear even with the shifter in 2nd. Starting 2000, if you put the shifter in 2, it would start off in 2, even from a stop.
12. 1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT faster than 2000+ cars
13. 1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
14. 1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
15. 1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
16. 1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
17. 1998 and some early 1999 cars had blue tint outside rear view mirrors (Trans Am only)
18. 1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
19. Last year F-body to use the old 15.5 gallon fuel tank.
20. Only year LS1 F-body to contain a gas cap with a tether long enough to actually hang from the fuel door while open
21. Only year LS1 F-body to not contain the famous GM black box used in the event of an accident to record up to 5 seconds of pre-crash data
22. 1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
23. 1998 only cars did not have an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body
24. 1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
25. A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time
1999
1. 1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
2. Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have centre bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
3. Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
4. Midyear model change to a cheaper steering wheel audio control button without finger indentations, and cheaper built
5. 1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
6. 1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam
7. Only year that Hugger Orange was available (Camaro only)
8. 30th Anniversary Trans Am available with special blue and white paint package and blue clear coated WS6 wheels
9. Switch to larger 16.8 gallon fuel tank to meet new emissions requirements.
10. Gas cap tether was shorter and could no longer be used to hang on the gas door when open.
11. Company wide change added black boxes to record up to 5 seconds of data before a crash
12. Rear hatch release was redesigned with stiffer spring that released the hatch better
13. Water temp gauge was redesigned to work basically as a dummy gauge and only show an overheat condition.
14. An oil life monitor was added to all LS1s, thus changing the gauge cluster a little to show the oil life reset swtich
15. 1999-02 cars had a different PCV system with the valve located to the side of the intake manifold
16. Early production 1999 Trans-Ams still had the blue outside mirrors, but a midyear change went to the non-tinted ones
2000
1. Redesigned exhaust manifolds for new emissions standard actually flowed better and created a little more HP.
2. 2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
3. Added rear child seat safety hooks to interior per federal requirements
4. Very early run of WS6s had "salad shooter" style rims. A production change switched back to standard 5-spoke WS6 rims.
5. Camaros got redesigned 10-spoke base rims, and SSs came with new 10-spoke rim design
6. First year of Monterey Maple Metallic paint
7. Charcoal (greyish) interior was replaced with Ebony (almost black) leather interior
8. Cloth interior cars got new rainbow coloured cloth patterns
9. Camaros only got the Pontiac steering wheel with optional audio controls
10. Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT
11. Automatic transmission cars were reprogrammed to allow a car to start off in 2nd gear from a stop when the shift lever is put into 2.
12. The last year a WS6 Formula was offered
13. Starting 2000 intake lids contained a separate breather filter
2001
1. A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
2. Starting 2001 model year, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
3. Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
4. 2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
5. 2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)
6. WS6 cars had a redesigned 5 spoke rim which was more wavy
7. WS6 cars got less suspension upgrades from a base Trans Am suspension than previous years
8. Manual transmission cars all came with the Z06 clutch
2002 - Last year of the F-body
1. 35th Anniversary edition of the Camaro, and Collectors Edition Trans Am available (silver stripes on red Camaro, yellow with graphics TA)
2. 2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car they’re installed on
3. 2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel injectors and smaller truck cam
4. 2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
5. A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP (the Firehawk)
6. Manual transmission cars continued use of the Z06 clutch
7. Some 2002 model F-bodies came with a revised rear view mirror that had the map light buttons on the bottom, rather than the front.
I'll get my anorak....
1998
1. Had different casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
2. Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers individually.
3. The water temp gauge actually works.
4. Only LS1 year to not have an oil life monitor
5. WS6s had single outlet exhaust (all others had duals) (not in Europe)
6. Steering wheel controls were completely different part with indentations on the buttons, and were better built
7. Only year that Purple, Gold, and Green were available
8. Some very early Trans-Ams came with LT1 style headrests
9. Rear hatch release was poorly designed and often caused problems releasing mechanism
10. Early model 98 Monsoon stereos didn’t have capability to control 12-disc CD changer
11. 1998-1999 automatic transmission LS1s could be started in 1st gear even with the shifter in 2nd. Starting 2000, if you put the shifter in 2, it would start off in 2, even from a stop.
12. 1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT faster than 2000+ cars
13. 1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
14. 1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
15. 1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
16. 1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
17. 1998 and some early 1999 cars had blue tint outside rear view mirrors (Trans Am only)
18. 1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
19. Last year F-body to use the old 15.5 gallon fuel tank.
20. Only year LS1 F-body to contain a gas cap with a tether long enough to actually hang from the fuel door while open
21. Only year LS1 F-body to not contain the famous GM black box used in the event of an accident to record up to 5 seconds of pre-crash data
22. 1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
23. 1998 only cars did not have an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body
24. 1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
25. A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time
1999
1. 1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
2. Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have centre bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
3. Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
4. Midyear model change to a cheaper steering wheel audio control button without finger indentations, and cheaper built
5. 1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
6. 1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam
7. Only year that Hugger Orange was available (Camaro only)
8. 30th Anniversary Trans Am available with special blue and white paint package and blue clear coated WS6 wheels
9. Switch to larger 16.8 gallon fuel tank to meet new emissions requirements.
10. Gas cap tether was shorter and could no longer be used to hang on the gas door when open.
11. Company wide change added black boxes to record up to 5 seconds of data before a crash
12. Rear hatch release was redesigned with stiffer spring that released the hatch better
13. Water temp gauge was redesigned to work basically as a dummy gauge and only show an overheat condition.
14. An oil life monitor was added to all LS1s, thus changing the gauge cluster a little to show the oil life reset swtich
15. 1999-02 cars had a different PCV system with the valve located to the side of the intake manifold
16. Early production 1999 Trans-Ams still had the blue outside mirrors, but a midyear change went to the non-tinted ones
2000
1. Redesigned exhaust manifolds for new emissions standard actually flowed better and created a little more HP.
2. 2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
3. Added rear child seat safety hooks to interior per federal requirements
4. Very early run of WS6s had "salad shooter" style rims. A production change switched back to standard 5-spoke WS6 rims.
5. Camaros got redesigned 10-spoke base rims, and SSs came with new 10-spoke rim design
6. First year of Monterey Maple Metallic paint
7. Charcoal (greyish) interior was replaced with Ebony (almost black) leather interior
8. Cloth interior cars got new rainbow coloured cloth patterns
9. Camaros only got the Pontiac steering wheel with optional audio controls
10. Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT
11. Automatic transmission cars were reprogrammed to allow a car to start off in 2nd gear from a stop when the shift lever is put into 2.
12. The last year a WS6 Formula was offered
13. Starting 2000 intake lids contained a separate breather filter
2001
1. A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
2. Starting 2001 model year, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
3. Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
4. 2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
5. 2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)
6. WS6 cars had a redesigned 5 spoke rim which was more wavy
7. WS6 cars got less suspension upgrades from a base Trans Am suspension than previous years
8. Manual transmission cars all came with the Z06 clutch
2002 - Last year of the F-body
1. 35th Anniversary edition of the Camaro, and Collectors Edition Trans Am available (silver stripes on red Camaro, yellow with graphics TA)
2. 2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car they’re installed on
3. 2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel injectors and smaller truck cam
4. 2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
5. A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP (the Firehawk)
6. Manual transmission cars continued use of the Z06 clutch
7. Some 2002 model F-bodies came with a revised rear view mirror that had the map light buttons on the bottom, rather than the front.
I'll get my anorak....
matmoxon said:
Ohh, and I have joined s197.co.uk forums, but I am still waiting for my forum membership to be approved (over a week now)
Matt
Hmm, thought it was an instant registration. I'll tell Ozza to pull his finger out Matt
Keep the dream alive. LV51FER's right about values climbing recently, but there may still be owners looking for a quick sale at £13k.....but you'll need to be on your toes.
Twin Turbo said:
matmoxon said:
Ohh, and I have joined s197.co.uk forums, but I am still waiting for my forum membership to be approved (over a week now)
Matt
Hmm, thought it was an instant registration. I'll tell Ozza to pull his finger out Matt
Keep the dream alive. LV51FER's right about values climbing recently, but there may still be owners looking for a quick sale at £13k.....but you'll need to be on your toes.
The Monaro (mentioned further up) is also a good suggestion so I might look into those as well, but I just want something a bit different, a bit special. If I just wanted a car with a V8 in I'd buy an E39 5 series BMW (not that there is anything wrong with those I quite like the E39 shape actually
but it is a bit too every day looking and mods are expensive). A TVR would be a good car for me until the point where it has to be used pretty much every day (people do I know, but it is more down to the servicing and insurance of such a car doing 10 to 12k per year). Yank Muscle, a BMW 540 etc or keeping my ST seems the only option at the moment, everything else is totally impractical for my needs .Matt
I personally quite like the look of the Monaro. But the things that put me off. Are it’s a bit understated for my tastes and is a fair amount heavier than a Camaro (and a lot more than a Mustang).
I also like the appeal of LHD, it just makes it feel that bit more special.
And while I’m no snob, I’d rather not drive round with a Vauxhall badge on the front, still think GM made a blunder there, they should have kept it badged as Holden.
I also like the appeal of LHD, it just makes it feel that bit more special.
And while I’m no snob, I’d rather not drive round with a Vauxhall badge on the front, still think GM made a blunder there, they should have kept it badged as Holden.
matmoxon said:
Thanks gents, I had noticed the marked increase in manual gearboxes and I wondered if there was something "uber" about them.
I did test drive a manual last year and I liked it, though I haven’t ever driven any sort of automatic, well apart from the flappy paddle DB9 - I'd rather have a manual but I'd have to wait longer to get my hands on one.
My only concern with the Mustang is the size – I just hope I can get it onto the driveway.
US GT owners generally go for manuals, and Limeys go for auto. Dunno why, apart from the fact that a lot of Mustangs live around the London area, and the auto is so nice for traffic.I did test drive a manual last year and I liked it, though I haven’t ever driven any sort of automatic, well apart from the flappy paddle DB9
- I'd rather have a manual but I'd have to wait longer to get my hands on one.My only concern with the Mustang is the size – I just hope I can get it onto the driveway.
About 2 (maybe 3) Ford introduced a cap on GT production of something like 40 or 45% of the S197 (rather limited) range (of 2). That I think had a further effect on manual vs auto in the US. GT owners were already specifying manual in the first place (I believe the S197 was/is the only American car where manual sales out number automatic). However now in the US, to want a GT, you really do have to be in the market for one, and people want that manual more than ever.
However, in V6 world, its the opposite way round. V6s are bought as boulevard cruisers, and hence go automatic.
Personally, I went for manual. Mine is not for sitting in traffic.
I too went for a coupe, manual, premium pack, GT. Didn't want red either because as you say - it fades. And most certainly didn't want pimp mobile red leather.
I ended up with, because the choice was limited (that manual option was a killer) a coupe, GT, premium pack, 1000W Shaker (oh yeah!), but red and red leather. Wasn't pleased about the red in a way, but I've had red before, but the red leather was interesting. Takes a bit of getting used to.
However, line my GT up against other more (dare I say it) plainer Mustangs and the red combination stands out in a good way. Bringing up the interior lights at night show off the red leather to its best.
Still remember the Mustang dealer on the M3 telling me that he couldn't find a V6 GT.
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