Stig a question!

[Steve@V8]

He Stig I was just looking at your website: http://www.mustang-gtcs.info/
I was wondering if you have done a dyno run after the install of your cold air intake, tune, UDP, and the steeda delete plates?

Thx Steve.

[Stig]

Hi Steve - simple answer is no. Not got round to it yet, but hope to get it on the rollers again v.soon.

Will keep you posted!

[benny.c]

Steve, don't know if this helps but I had the C&L intake and Predator tune on my car and it was dynoed at 324 bhp (300 bhp stock on the same dyno). Stig obviously has other mods which should free up more ponies though.

[Steve@V8]

Oke thx for the info guy's.
I wanted to know because I'm still debating weather to go with the setup stig has or go for a super- charger. I was wondering how the parts that are on stig's car would work together. Knowing that a cold air and tune would give you something like 26 - 30 Hp more underdrive puly 10 - 12 HP the steeda cmcv not sure how they will affect the Hp and how much......but anyway I'm in no hurry with the mods so lets see what stig's car puts out when he does an other dyno run.


BTW very niz work on the suspension stig... me... is jealous.

[Stig]

benny.c said:

Steve, don't know if this helps but I had the C&L intake and Predator tune on my car and it was dynoed at 324 bhp (300 bhp stock on the same dyno). Stig obviously has other mods which should free up more ponies though.

And not all dyno's read the same. My GT/CS was making 324 bhp before adding anything!

[Stig]

swerni said:

he would put it on a rolling road but he knows it's "all bark and not bite"
;)

Power is nothing without control mate. No good having 5 gazillion bhp if you can't make it round the first bend in the road

Steve - as to your question about power or handling - it's a personal thing obviously, but I'd go for handling first every time. The old racing adage says that to go faster, first you must stop quicker - that's definitely true (especially in something as heavy as the Mustang). I've been the all-out-power route (my GTR-S made 630hp) and it was unusable on the road for 99% of the time. So for me, the Mustang plan was to get it to handle as well as possible with max. bhp normallay aspirated (shooting for about 360 bhp).

Having monster power is great for pub bragging rights (and on the drag strip), but on the road, where we use the cars for most of the time, it's fairly pointless. You just end up using more fuel and a more temperamental engine (well, in my experience at least). A contentious point perhaps, but it's genuinely what I believe.

I've spent more than twice as much (about 12k) than a supercharger would have cost me - but the handling benefits far outweight it IMHO.

Obviously you can go for a supercharger (say 5K) and a Ford/Roush handling pack (2.5k) and you'll still get great results. But I prefer the adjustability of my setup, a throwback to when I was racing (and the constant need to tinker )

Edited by Stig on Tuesday 5th August 07:52

[LuS1fer]

Stig said:

swerni said:

he would put it on a rolling road but he knows it's "all bark and not bite"
;)

Power is nothing without control mate. No good having 5 gazillion bhp if you can't make it round the first bend in the road

Steve - as to your question about power or handling - it's a personal thing obviously, but I'd go for handling first every time. The old racing adage says that to go faster, first you must stop quicker - that's definitely true (especially in something as heavy as the Mustang). I've been the all-out-power route (my GTR-S made 630hp) and it was unusable on the road for 99% of the time. So for me, the Mustang plan was to get it to handle as well as possible with max. bhp normallay aspirated (shooting for about 360 bhp).

Having monster power is great for pub bragging rights (and on the drag strip), but on the road, where we use the cars for most of the time, it's fairly pointless. You just end up using more fuel and a more temperamental engine (well, in my experience at least). A contentious point perhaps, but it's genuinely what I believe.

I've spent more than twice as much (about 12k) than a supercharger would have cost me - but the handling benefits far outweight it IMHO.

Obviously you can go for a supercharger (say 5K) and a Ford/Roush handling pack (2.5k) and you'll still get great results. But I prefer the adjustability of my setup, a throwback to when I was racing (and the constant need to tinker )

I'd agree that handling is the prime concern. I fitted my supercharger first because I had all the suspension stuff ready to go on. The effect is to turn the Mustang into a rocking horse - nose up, nose down. However, I would say that being a fast driver myself, I've never passed the limits of my Mustang so would recommend something like the Roush suspension but wouldn't be without my supercharger.

The supercharger is the difference between a quick car and a fast car and with the Vortech I have fitted, the mpg remained exactly the same and the reliability is 100%. It's true to say that in 4 years with a 305hp Z28, I only actually met two cars that were palpably faster so I'm not suggesting the Mustang is underpowered but if you want the thrill of the "runaway train", you have to have that supercharger.

[Stig]

LuS1fer said:

Stig said:

swerni said:

he would put it on a rolling road but he knows it's "all bark and not bite"
;)

Power is nothing without control mate. No good having 5 gazillion bhp if you can't make it round the first bend in the road

Steve - as to your question about power or handling - it's a personal thing obviously, but I'd go for handling first every time. The old racing adage says that to go faster, first you must stop quicker - that's definitely true (especially in something as heavy as the Mustang). I've been the all-out-power route (my GTR-S made 630hp) and it was unusable on the road for 99% of the time. So for me, the Mustang plan was to get it to handle as well as possible with max. bhp normallay aspirated (shooting for about 360 bhp).

Having monster power is great for pub bragging rights (and on the drag strip), but on the road, where we use the cars for most of the time, it's fairly pointless. You just end up using more fuel and a more temperamental engine (well, in my experience at least). A contentious point perhaps, but it's genuinely what I believe.

I've spent more than twice as much (about 12k) than a supercharger would have cost me - but the handling benefits far outweight it IMHO.

Obviously you can go for a supercharger (say 5K) and a Ford/Roush handling pack (2.5k) and you'll still get great results. But I prefer the adjustability of my setup, a throwback to when I was racing (and the constant need to tinker )

I'd agree that handling is the prime concern. I fitted my supercharger first because I had all the suspension stuff ready to go on. The effect is to turn the Mustang into a rocking horse - nose up, nose down. However, I would say that being a fast driver myself, I've never passed the limits of my Mustang so would recommend something like the Roush suspension but wouldn't be without my supercharger.

The supercharger is the difference between a quick car and a fast car and with the Vortech I have fitted, the mpg remained exactly the same and the reliability is 100%. It's true to say that in 4 years with a 305hp Z28, I only actually met two cars that were palpably faster so I'm not suggesting the Mustang is underpowered but if you want the thrill of the "runaway train", you have to have that supercharger.

I'd be interested to experience a centrifugal supercharger as all mine have been roots. I expect this accounts for the relatively minor impact on mpg at cruise too?

One day when you make it across the Severn bridge perhaps Wayne?

[LuS1fer]

It's like a broadband turbo. They are the most efficient but you do have to row the gearbox. If you like driving the car, that's a benefit but you may miss the low-down grunt of a Rootes (which I've never driven....)

[[OcUK]Gibbo]

HI there

Stig what have you done exactly to the suspension now, have you really spent 12k?

My car is driving superb, am loving it now and yes the watts link made a great difference to the way the car handles.

I am now on the 3.20 pulley and yes I have dollops of power down low but the power keeps increasing linear with revs right upto 6800rpm.

At:-
1000rpm = 200lb/ft
2000rpm = 400lb/ft
3000rpm = 480lb/ft
5000rpm = 520lb/ft

Power maxes just past 6500rpm on my car at 560BHP, about 480ish at the wheels.

Now on a dry day I can make use of all of this power, thanks to the suspension setup I have, hey I can even boot this car in 1st gear now and it will put the power down as it hooks up great. I absolutely love nailing the car in 2nd at 2000rpm and holding on upto the limiter, it literally goes from like 20mph to around 80mph pretty much in the blink of an eye and because of the torque you can nail it in 4th at 1000rpm and it just pulls like a train.

So for me I love the Supercharger which is twinscrew varient so similar to roots I believe. Put it this way it makes 10psi at 3000rpm which creeps upto 11.5psi by 6500rpm. Best bit is on the motorway travelling at 80mph she still returns 25-26mpg.

[Stig]

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

HI there

Stig what have you done exactly to the suspension now, have you really spent 12k?

I have - but not all on suspension it must be said.

[Stig]

swerni said:

Stig said:

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

HI there

Stig what have you done exactly to the suspension now, have you really spent 12k?

I have - but not all on suspension it must be said.

have you been buying pretty stickers for the car again

Stickers??

I've got one that says 'Got big wheels - then get big brakes', but that's it

[matmoxon]

Just had a quick look through you're website, very nice. Though I probarbly shouldn't have as I want a Mustang more than ever now.

Matt

[Stig]

swerni said:

Stig said:

swerni said:

Stig said:

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

HI there

Stig what have you done exactly to the suspension now, have you really spent 12k?

I have - but not all on suspension it must be said.

have you been buying pretty stickers for the car again

Stickers??

I've got one that says 'Got big wheels - then get big brakes', but that's it

how about the "California speshial needs" stickers over the arches

Still waiting, they're on backorder

PS. I only realised what you were on about when riding home last night!!!

[benny.c]

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

Power maxes just past 6500rpm on my car at 560BHP, about 480ish at the wheels.

Gibbo, I'd be a little wary of the dyno results at Powerstation (if that's where it was dynoed?). I had mine dynoed there and got 373 bhp with just a CAI and tune, which is tosh TBH. They are useful as a guide if you have a run done before modding, but even then it depends on the conditions on the day. If you were to go on a US forum and claim more than 30 bhp from a CAI & remap you'd get shot down in flames.

Based on my experience comparing 5 or 6 runs on a few different dyno's, I'd say they over estimated my power by a good 50 bhp. Of course the only way to really determine the gains is on the track.

Edited by benny.c on Thursday 7th August 14:06

[Stig]

benny.c said:

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

Power maxes just past 6500rpm on my car at 560BHP, about 480ish at the wheels.

Gibbo, I'd be a little wary of the dyno results at Powerstation (if that's where it was dynoed?). I had mine dynoed there and got 373 bhp with just a CAI and tune, which is tosh TBH. They are useful as a guide if you have a run done before modding, but even then it depends on the conditions on the day. If you were to go on a US forum and claim more than 30 bhp from a CAI & remap you'd get shot down in flames.

Based on my experience comparing 5 or 6 runs on a few different dyno's, I'd say they over estimated my power by a good 50 bhp. Of course the only way to really determine the gains is on the track.

Edited by benny.c on Thursday 7th August 14:06

Have to say I agree. I got them to do a baseline run so I can to subsequent runs there to compare gains. But as a 'real' figure, I think it's optimistic.

[[OcUK]Gibbo]

Hi there

Yep Powerstations rollers were re-calibrated 2 weeks ago, my previous run yielded 532BHP, wheras on new software/calibration they have it had dropped to around 490BHP. The new smaller pulley for supercharger and other pullies have increased the power to the 550BHP area.

The rollers seemed to be quite accurate on the day with an M5 getting 390BHP, Clio 182 getting 182.7BHP amongst other cars getting lower results than they got on other dynos. So it seems that whatever Powerstation have done software wise it has made their rollers quite a bit more accurate.


Stig 12k is a fortune, is that 12k sterling and if so any chance you can put a list together on whats on your car. I have done a lot of mods to my car but have not spent 12k.

[Stig]

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

Hi there

Yep Powerstations rollers were re-calibrated 2 weeks ago, my previous run yielded 532BHP, wheras on new software/calibration they have it had dropped to around 490BHP. The new smaller pulley for supercharger and other pullies have increased the power to the 550BHP area.

The rollers seemed to be quite accurate on the day with an M5 getting 390BHP, Clio 182 getting 182.7BHP amongst other cars getting lower results than they got on other dynos. So it seems that whatever Powerstation have done software wise it has made their rollers quite a bit more accurate.


Stig 12k is a fortune, is that 12k sterling and if so any chance you can put a list together on whats on your car. I have done a lot of mods to my car but have not spent 12k.

Yup - it's a lot, but so's the list. It's all on my website (well, not the prices, but the parts).

[benny.c]

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

Yep Powerstations rollers were re-calibrated 2 weeks ago, my previous run yielded 532BHP, wheras on new software/calibration they have it had dropped to around 490BHP. The new smaller pulley for supercharger and other pullies have increased the power to the 550BHP area.

That thing must fly now Long term are you going to do any engine work or just play until it breaks? I've been thinking about forged internals or maybe a whole built block but I'm still under 500. Even with a good tune I guess you're on the limit though.

The other thing I've been toying with is a new clutch. Are you still on the stock one?

Edited by benny.c on Monday 11th August 09:36

[[OcUK]Gibbo]

benny.c said:

[OcUK]Gibbo said:

Yep Powerstations rollers were re-calibrated 2 weeks ago, my previous run yielded 532BHP, wheras on new software/calibration they have it had dropped to around 490BHP. The new smaller pulley for supercharger and other pullies have increased the power to the 550BHP area.

That thing must fly now Long term are you going to do any engine work or just play until it breaks? I've been thinking about forged internals or maybe a whole built block but I'm still under 500. Even with a good tune I guess you're on the limit though.

The other thing I've been toying with is a new clutch. Are you still on the stock one?

Edited by benny.c on Monday 11th August 09:36

HI there

I don't think I am on the limit, the engine is pushing 550BHP on a tune that is slightly rich across the entire rev range, especially past 5000rpm and has the timing pulled back past 5000rpm because I made it very clear to the tuners the car is a daily driver and to make them even more cautious I told them I track the car regular in race events where WOT throttle is sustained for hours and use of the 6800rpm is made regular along with high speed highway runs past 170mph....

I don't actually do track days in the car and I don't actually go driving at 170mph but I know such things would make them air on caution, because in the states most cars only see the 1/4 mile and to be frank 12s down the strip aint really stressing the motor wheras a trackday or high speed highway run would.

So my tune is actually conservative, could have more timing in it and could be run leaner for more power. Then secondly there are quite a few guys running 2.87 pullies in the US pushing 14psi on the stock motor and no problems.

As long as the tune is right, you can provide the fuelling and you have the right MAF, Spark Plugs etc. your looking good. Things go wrong when people's fuel pumps can't supply enough fuel, peopld dont put the right injectors in, or they use a poor maf thats on the limit, don't use colder heat range plugs or simply get a bad tune.

I have done it properly, 60lb injectors, colder plugs, uprated maf, GT500 pumps, a tune from the best tuner in the US for Saleen supercharged cars. Then I have daignosed the car on both dyno and datalogging to get the tune perfect across the entire rev range.

The result is yes an extremely quick but safe car. Throw a set of 15" wheels on the car with drag tyres and I reckon I would see high 10's in the 1/4 but because I am sticking with my heavy Saleen wheels and road tyres I expect to be in the 11.5-12s region with terminals around 120mph. Yes the car is mental fast to drive and huge amounts of fun but you would expect 550BHP, 510lb/ft in a car weighing 1550kg to be fun, put it this way I got the legs on a Z06 upto silly speeds a couple of weeks ago an a V10 M5 had no chance at all.